Issue With Axiom And Ground Noise

[Gone Bush]

Ok, here we go.

First stop today was a patch around some old shafts about 6 klms south of Coolgardie.
We rate this as a 1 meaning that particular patch should deliver 1 gram for an 8 hour day.
Not great but only 40 klms away so short travel time.
Possible detector issues so didn't want to blow another 100 on fuel for nothing.
On a mineralization scale of 1 to 10 with one being a $299 VLF would pull gold and ten being no hope in hell, this would be a 4-5.
Axiom operated perfectly. Mode fine, sensitivity 4, threshold 25, speed medium and a dream to use.
Even creeped sensitivity up to 6 in lot of places.
However, moving across the tenement, and at around midday it started to get a bit feisty.
There were more hot rocks here so balanced a few of them out and good to go.
Ambient temperature also get very hot.
Forecast I think 38, actual 41. So everything gets quite hot including a black and grey detector.
Possibly this is irrelevant but is notable.
Still, Axiom was certainly usable and easily able to hear the 0.11 test nugget.
Dug maybe 50 targets from ever popular aluminum foil to small shotgun pellets.
No gold but smooth operation on sensitivity 4 in fine mode. Looking good.

After lunch we moved to another tenement on the Kalgoorlie side of Coolgardie where I know there is a creek filled with wash that is very hot. Guesstimate, a 7 maybe 8 out of 10.
Axiom ground balanced at 51-28 then 60-32.
Rate this a 1-2 as in 1-2 grams expected for an 8 hour day.
Then the trouble starts.
Because each side of the creek has markedly different geology, the creek bed is varied and patchy. 
Axiom had issues with this location.
Closer to Hitchcock as a director (mainly because he is dead) than Tarantino but did manage to upload a video.

So, Axiom can provide a good threshold with good stability.
However, any settings used to achieve this meant the 0.11 gram test nugget could not be heard.
Sensitivity 4, Fine mode, medium speed, threshold I think 16 and the nugget can be heard.
These settings give a very unstable threshold that had me digging hot spots one after the other.
Also, bump the ground and threshold goes through the roof.

So back off the sensitivity to get any sort of reasonable threshold and the test nugget disappears.
Same with changing from Fine to Normal with sensitivity on 4.
Nugget barely heard and basically disappeared into the rest of the noise.
Absolutely would not pull you up using speaker or standard supplied headphones.
Overall, sensitivity 3 in normal mode made for the most stable operation.
This was with speaker and/or standard wireless headphones so I think with a decent set of headphones and a WR-1 I might, and I stress might, still be able to hear the nugget.
In this location the 6000 also gets a bit narky but still manages to punch the target signal out.
The 6000 has given us, from memory, maybe 40 pieces from this creek ranging from 0.05 up to 1.2 grams.
Reason I sold one 6000 and got the Axiom was its reported ability's on hot ground and with hot rocks.
Today showed me that Axiom, on ground within its tolerance of hotness (LOL) handles hot rocks in a way that 6000 can only dream off.
I'm trying not to make this a Axiom Vs 6000 but the 6000 is the reference point I have.

Not sure that the unit has any sort of defect (manufacturing or otherwise).
It's possible that it simply is unable to concurrently operate in this type of hot ground and produce a clear signal for nuggets less than or equal to 0.10 grams.
If someone in the know says Axiom should perform better than this, maybe I do have a dud.
Yesterday I was convinced it was a dud but this morning showed that on moderate ground it operates as intended and dare I say I preferred it to the 6000, particularly when the hot rocks came out to play.
The abilities are obviously there, just not on hot ground, possibly only in the case of this particular unit.
Any suggestions welcomed

Edit:
Some will say, use a DD.
Tried that yesterday. Makes everything better to a certain extent but still drops out the 0.11 nugget.
Mainly, I need a mono to work because I poke the front of it under bushes (especially spinifex) and I get maybe 10% of my gold in those locations that others miss.
Rohan at Nugget Finder (LEGEND) knew I was having 6000 coils fail so he sent me a 12 x 7 test coil for the 6000. Changed the whole 6000 experience.
First day I went over a patch outside of Cue, got almost 3 grams previously missed because I couldn't get the standard 11" round mono close enough to the base of trees/bushes or in between rocks.
This year that extra 10% was worth over $10,000 in my total weight for the year. Cant be without that ability.
And as much as I like the Garrett coplaner coils with the super hot spot in the center, a almost dead front edge means its a no go. 

 

[Gone Bush]

13 hours ago, jasong said:

I read an article by Bruce Candy once that stated certain Australian laterite-derived soils in WA - while "less hot" than some magnetite laden American soils - can actually be more difficult to deal with for some reasons having to do with ferrite population or something like that (I forget, argh) which mimick targets and thus give ground reponses closer to target responses vs the hotter American ground that gives bigger ground responses, but not as close to target responses, so easier to balance? I wish I could remember what the article was or what the explanation was because I'm sure I'm getting it wrong now...

Anyways - while I know zero about the Axiom and can't comment there. It may be worth trying it out in some totally different soil types before you spend the time sending it off first. Just as a data point if nothing else. There could be places where some specific soils just have a "bad mixture" of ferrite or something particularly difficult to deal with for some detectors and not others?

Hi Jasong,

Bruce actually mentioned something about that in a discussion we had years ago.
My hard drive is also full so can’t recall the conversation exactly.
However, I love laterite gravels to detect.
The 6000 runs smooth, it’s easy digging and I would estimate 80% of my gold comes from laterite gravels mostly around Cue, Mount Magnet and Meekatharra.
Most people tend to head for the quartz blow and the ground around (below) it but ignore pockets of laterite gravels.
One patch we found this year looked like shit, was in a shit location, there was no obvious place gold could have shed from but it gave up over 10 ounces with a 5 ounce king nugget.
Maybe one hot rock per 4 square metres otherwise easy detecting and easy digging.

Can only assume that Bruce’s knowledge on the subject made it into the 6000 because, at least in my experience, it has no issue at all working on laterite gravels.
Next year when it cools off a bit up there I hope to revisit some patches and see what the Axiom thinks of them.

[Gone Bush]

Yellow dots are where Axiom has had a walk.

No gold yet…..

[Gone Bush]

Hers the test nugget we use.

[Gold Catcher]

1 hour ago, Gone Bush said:

So, Axiom can provide a good threshold with good stability.
However, any settings used to achieve this meant the 0.11 gram test nugget could not be heard.
Sensitivity 4, Fine mode, medium speed, threshold I think 16 and the nugget can be heard.
These settings give a very unstable threshold that had me digging hot spots one after the other.
Also, bump the ground and threshold goes through the roof.

Bummer. Stabilizing the threshold in "7-8 hot ground" and not hearing a surface 0.1 g nugget defeats the purpose. Looking forward to reading more reports as they come in. I have 0 experience with the Axiom and don't know if these settings were appropriate for the ground, but the clip is disturbing to say the least.

GC

[Gone Bush]

32 minutes ago, Gold Catcher said:

Bummer. Stabilizing the threshold and not hearing a surface 0.1 g nugget defeats the purpose. Looking forward to reading more reports as they come in. 

GC

Agree.

Very frustrating to have a morning on moderate ground where Axiom gives you a fat to the extent that you would consider it better than a 6000 (especially with hot rocks) but then throw some hot ground at it and it drops its bundle.

Must say, I love everything about Axiom except three things:

Wi-Fi headphones are shithouse. Like a speaker with a blanket over it. Try some good wired headphones and the audio comes alive. WR-1 should come with Axiom. Unacceptable that Garrett Australia does not even stock it.

The charging port cover is shithouse. Never stays closed. Just like the 6000. Crap.

And the obvious issues I am having with hot ground.

While, in my opinion, (and let’s not forget that opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one and on close inspection, they stink), the 6000 still has an slight edge on Axiom, I would venture that if my hot ground issue can be resolved and I can get my hands on a WR-1 to enable use of quality headphones/ear buds, I will have no issue matching our remaining 6000 on weight recovered.
6000 may still hear smaller nuggets but just the ability to balance out hot rocks that I experienced today would, in the areas we detect, easily make up for missing the odd 0.00 nugget that the 6000 hits on.
Having said that, being unable to have a usable threshold and hear a 0.1 surface nugget regardless of ground mineralisation is still unacceptable, especially in a $7350 machine.

[Gold Catcher]

28 minutes ago, Gone Bush said:

Having said that, being unable to have a usable threshold and hear a 0.1 surface nugget regardless of ground mineralisation is still unacceptable, especially in a $7350 machine.

This is where my particular interest would be for the Axiom. I realize that I am in a very different situation than many because I have excellent machines to choose from, and I am just looking for a very particular application (finding gold in very hot ground where other PI's struggle). But I have to say that the GPZ/NF12 in general/difficult (my to-go settings in very thot ground) generally has a very stable threshold and a 0.1 g nugget on the surface would blow your headset of your ears. Now granted, not a fair comparison between these very different detectors (also from a price point!), but for me performance in difficult situations is all that matters. But these particular needs are certainly not what makes a detector great or not. I am sure the Axiom is an excellent detector and a welcomed competitor for ML, and it will make a very convincing case for a great all-round PI with a settings package that the 6000 is lacking (unfortunately).

GC

[Gone Bush]

3 minutes ago, Gold Catcher said:

This is where my particular interest would be for the Axiom. I realize that I am in a very different situation as many because I have excellent machines to choose from, and I am just looking for a very particular application (finding gold in very hot ground where other PI's struggle). But I have to say that the GPZ in general/difficult (my to-go settings in very thot ground) generally has a very stable threshold and a 0.1 g nugget on the surface would blow your headset of your ears. Now granted, not a fair comparison between these very different detectors, but for me personally this is all that matters.

GC

Also agree.

One of the reasons I got rid of a 6000 and bought Axiom was to revisit places that mineralisation and/or hot rocks made 6000 difficult/impossible to successfully operate.
Kind of like when the 6000 first landed. It was a unreliable piece of shit but when going well it really did make flogged patches come alive again.
Back injury means my 7000 days are over so that only leaves 6000 or Axiom unfortunately.

[Gold Catcher]

3 minutes ago, Gone Bush said:

Back injury means my 7000 days are over so that only leaves 6000 or Axiom unfortunately.

Sorry to hear. I haven't met a 7000 user yet who doesn't complain about back issues, even without previous injury...

[Gone Bush]

1 hour ago, Gold Catcher said:

This is where my particular interest would be for the Axiom. I realize that I am in a very different situation than many because I have excellent machines to choose from, and I am just looking for a very particular application (finding gold in very hot ground where other PI's struggle). But I have to say that the GPZ/NF12 in general/difficult (my to-go settings in very thot ground) generally has a very stable threshold and a 0.1 g nugget on the surface would blow your headset of your ears. Now granted, not a fair comparison between these very different detectors (also from a price point!), but for me performance in difficult situations is all that matters. But these particular needs are certainly not what makes a detector great or not. I am sure the Axiom is an excellent detector and a welcomed competitor for ML, and it will make a very convincing case for a great all-round PI with a settings package that the 6000 is lacking (unfortunately).

GC

That NF coil makes the 7000 soooo much better. Had one on mine and loved it.

I also think Axiom is an awesome unit notwithstanding the current issues.
As I mentioned, I nearly dropped a load in my pants when I saw it handle hot rocks this morning.
As to your particular application, I will be sure to keep this thread updated in the hope it provides information that may be of assistance to you.