6 Tone Vs 60 Tone Vs Pitch

[Jeff McClendon]

4 hours ago, JohnnyDigs said:

Ok so then when I see people in pitch, some are able to specifically call out targets but how do they do this if the pitch is always the same but only the volume tells them how deep it is 

I really apologize if I sound stupid but it’s just to interesting for me not to ask🤣

I see guys that are so good with pitch that they literally know what is in the ground without even looking at the numbers.  They do it all by sound. 
 

I kinda wish we could have both tonal pitch and volume pitch in 60 tones but I guess it doesn’t work that way 

You would get a better answer just by doing some testing/training. 

Just get a small target like a #6 shot gun pellet or other target that weighs less than 0.25 grams, get a little dirt and bury that target 2 to 3" deep. You don't have to bury it in the ground, just use a container that is roughly as wide as the coil you are using. The dirt can be potting soil or just sand. Try detecting it in M2 with the discrimination patter on A or G using the multi tone options and then try detecting it using Pitch. 

I don't know anything about what the "people" you see calling out targets are doing so I can't answer that.

I do know that I can sometimes usually tell ferrous from non-ferrous using Pitch and that I can tell a deep target from a shallow one and a small target from a large one for starters. You should be able to do that too with a little practice. Who knows, you may be calling coins from trash pretty quickly using Pitch and with a little help from a quick glance at the target IDs.

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, Jeff McClendon said:

with a little help from a quick glance at the target IDs.

To JohnnyDigs: That's the key.  You can't really call a specific target within a type (e.g., penny coin vs. quarter coin) with certainty in Pitch alone without a TID other than the general ferrous/non-ferrous and irregular (trash) vs. symmetric (coin/button) tonality clues, as Jeff described.  Anyone who tells you they can tell a coin denomination or even a coin from a button from a non-ferrous washer from a ring in Pitch without glancing at TID is probably "embellishing" their actual abilities.  (Nice way of saying they are probably lying to you).

[JohnnyDigs]

1 hour ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Just get a small target like a #6 shot gun pellet or other target that weighs less than 0.25 grams, get a little dirt and bury that target 2 to 3" deep. You don't have to bury it in the ground, just use a container that is roughly as wide as the coil you are using. The dirt can be potting soil or just sand. Try detecting it in M2 with the discrimination patter on A or G using the multi tone options and then try detecting it using Pitch. 

Yes this makes sense and I’ve been playing around with both 60 tones and pitch tones, that’s why I was confused how he was calling targets out

 However, now that I look at it and go back he’s actually not calling the denomination of a coin when he believes it’s a coin, he just says it’s a coin or trash. This person calls things like, junkie, trash, or it’s trashy or it’s a coin. 
and now I feel like an idiot for not paying attention to that🤣🤣🤣🙌🏻

 

my fault on that 100% however it’s still very impressive to me that he knows what kind of junkie trash it can be whether it be a pulltab, bottle cap, or complete iron or something but I guess he can hear that in the tone of the pitch, 

So I did a little testing myself with the legend, and it actually pretty hard for me to hear it in pitch as far as whether if it is junkie or not, example being if I swing over the target is there a little grunt or no grunt, 

when I’m in 60 tones, a pool tab will just beep and have a number 😂. I really don’t know if I’m saying all this correctly as again, I am brand new to this stuff, but one thing is for sure is that I am fascinated 😂😂

[JohnnyDigs]

39 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

That's the key.  You can't really call a specific target within a type (e.g., penny coin vs. quarter coin) with certainty in Pitch alone without a TID other than the general ferrous/non-ferrous and irregular (trash) vs. symmetric (coin/button) tonality clues, as Jeff described.  Anyone who tells you they can tell a coin denomination or even a coin from a button from a non-ferrous washer from a ring in Pitch without glancing at TID is probably "embellishing" their actual abilities.  (Nice way of saying they are probably lying to you).

Yes, I admit that when I went back and looked at some more of his videos, it doesn’t quite tell me denomination of the coin he just knows whether it’s trash or not just like you said, I’m not sure if you’re following this thread or not which is the purpose of why I tagged you, but you can go read the message I just left and you will see that it was my mistake and I thought otherwise 🙌🏻😂😂😂

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, JohnnyDigs said:

Yes, I admit that when I went back and looked at some more of his videos, it doesn’t quite tell me denomination of the coin he just knows whether it’s trash or not just like you said, I’m not sure if you’re following this thread or not which is the purpose of why I tagged you, but you can go read the message I just left and you will see that it was my mistake and I thought otherwise 🙌🏻😂😂😂

Don't put yourself down.  Whoever you are talking about is taking advantage of the more enhanced audio nuances provided by pitch.  They've tuned their ear to these nuances so they can pay more attention to the audio clues and not just have their eyes glued to a TID screen or the limited audio cues provided by coarse multi-tone (i.e., 2 tone, 3 tone, 4 tone, 5 tone Tone ID).  Pitch audio can give you those nuances but the drawback is you need target ID to make a general or more precise call on the probable target conductivity and is a great tool if you are just looking to audibly distinguish ferrous from non-ferrous and likely trash from keepers.  60-tone, All Tone, or Full Tone audio setups do better than limited multi-tone audio at giving you more nuanced audio target information (but still not as good as pitch in my opinion) and a non-visual sense of whether you are swinging over a high or low conductor (but visual TID is still needed for precise ID).   

Mastering the ability to decide on the optimal audio setup for your ear and for the detecting objective you desire is a key skill.  As mentioned earlier in this thread, there is no one size fits all answer.  Getting plenty of swing hours in so you can try out different setups to see what works best for you is important to improving your detecting outcomes.

HTH

[JohnnyDigs]

5 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Don't put yourself down.  Whoever you are talking about is taking advantage of the more enhanced audio nuances provided by pitch.  They've tuned their ear to these nuances so they can pay more attention to the audio clues and not just have their eyes glued to a TID screen or the limited audio cues provided by coarse multi-tone (i.e., 2 tone, 3 tone, 4 tone, 5 tone Tone ID).  Pitch audio can give you those nuances but the drawback is you need target ID to make a general or more precise call on the probable target conductivity and is a great tool if you are just looking to audibly distinguish ferrous from non-ferrous and likely trash from keepers.  60-tone, All Tone, or Full Tone audio setups do better than limited multi-tone audio at giving you more nuanced audio target information (but still not as good as pitch in my opinion) and a non-visual sense of whether you are swinging over a high or low conductor (but visual TID is still needed for precise ID).   

Mastering the ability to decide on the optimal audio setup for your ear and for the detecting objective you desire is a key skill.  As mentioned earlier in this thread, there is no one size fits all answer.  Getting plenty of swing hours in so you can try out different setups to see what works best for you is important to improving your detecting outcomes.

Great response bro.  One day I’ll get there, it’s more about putting in the time I guess. But thank you for the response. I’ve been in my apartment running test and just getting familiar with the new machine but haven’t been able to get out to a real dig where I’m sure things will start to make even more sense as I pull up the proof out of the ground 

[JohnnyDigs]

On 1/22/2024 at 10:15 AM, Jeff McClendon said:

I do know that I can sometimes usually tell ferrous from non-ferrous using Pitch

Just out of curiosity, how? Will there be a little grunt or break or some sort of chirp? I really like pitch because I feel like it separates really well I just know I’ll be digging way more which I’m ok with also but I’m just curious 

[Jeff McClendon]

2 hours ago, JohnnyDigs said:

Just out of curiosity, how? Will there be a little grunt or break or some sort of chirp? I really like pitch because I feel like it separates really well I just know I’ll be digging way more which I’m ok with also but I’m just curious 

Pitch Tones (plural) on the Legend is 2 tone, ferrous/non-ferrous audio and the tone break will occur where it is set by default in each Park and Field mode. Make sure you are using the A or G discrimination pattern and iron volume level is loud enough to hear. Try it out on some test targets to get the volume levels right for your hearing.

[JohnnyDigs]

1 minute ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Pitch Tones (plural) on the Legend is 2 tone, ferrous/non-ferrous audio and the tone break will occur where it is set by default in each Park and Field mode. Make sure you are using the A or G discrimination pattern and iron volume level is loud enough to hear. Try it out on some test targets to get the volume levels right for your hearing.

Yes that I did and I was also in all metal with my tone break set in between 9-11. But my question is if you can hear a difference between say a coin and a piece of trash metal like brass or aluminum.  Is there something I should be listening for. 
 

example- when I was in those settings and swinging away, I sometimes I hit a target that sounds clean and strong thinking it was a coin but when I dug it up it be a small piece of brass.  Is there a sound that would give me the ability to really tell if it’s a coin or just some junk metal.  I mean not that I’m not digging it up anyway but I guess I’m trying to see if it’s something I need to listen and or just learn in time meaning, maybe it’ll be scratchy, or a mix of grunt with a high tone beep   or is it always going to be either a beep or a grunt and never a combination. And I also understand that if it is close to my tone break, it might do that but being way above the tone break, I’m asking if there is also other sounds, I can look out for that. Will give me hints on whether if it’s a tight, circular object or Elongated or on its edge or whatever 

[Jeff McClendon]

24 minutes ago, JohnnyDigs said:

Yes that I did and I was also in all metal with my tone break set in between 9-11. But my question is if you can hear a difference between say a coin and a piece of trash metal like brass or aluminum.  Is there something I should be listening for. 
 

example- when I was in those settings and swinging away, I sometimes I hit a target that sounds clean and strong thinking it was a coin but when I dug it up it be a small piece of brass.  Is there a sound that would give me the ability to really tell if it’s a coin or just some junk metal.  I mean not that I’m not digging it up anyway but I guess I’m trying to see if it’s something I need to listen and or just learn in time meaning, maybe it’ll be scratchy, or a mix of grunt with a high tone beep   or is it always going to be either a beep or a grunt and never a combination. And I also understand that if it is close to my tone break, it might do that but being way above the tone break, I’m asking if there is also other sounds, I can look out for that. Will give me hints on whether if it’s a tight, circular object or Elongated or on its edge or whatever 

The statement you quoted me on was about telling the difference between ferrous/non-ferrous using Pitch tones. 

I did not make any definitive claim about me personally telling the difference between a coin and aluminum trash using Pitch tones and I am not going to either. I merely stated that if You practice, you might sometimes be able to with a little glance at the target ID.

I generally use 6 or 60 tones on shallow to mid depth coin sized targets when coin/jewelry hunting. There is a lot of information within those tones about certain regularly occurring coins and certain, regularly occurring aluminum objects like pull tabs and aluminum screw caps that can be learned if you want to go to the trouble. Most people don't want to go to that trouble and some people will probably start taking shots at me for even saying it's possible.