XP Deus 2 With 9" Coil Vs Manticore With M8 Coil

[stupot]

Greetings from England!

This is actually a very, very difficult topic to reply to - hence my late entry!  It just boils down to personal preference. Unless you have two highly experienced operators checking together, preference is all we have.

The Deus 1 I ran for 10 years & used both the HF coils when they became available, it changed it remarkably for the better. I detect mostly on arable land & the coast looking for older items. On the shore, the 10x5 D1 coil was excellent in dryer stony but heavy iron spots. Industrial rivers & beaches where big iron, bars, chunks, chain occur - a lot of iron. Not particularly 'holiday' beaches. Outside of that I had the Eqx with the 10x5 coiltek (superb) These two covered everything for me at the time.

We always wanted a MF Deus & we finally got one. Initially, they only had 11" coils available, but a few months later the 9" arrived. This was like night from day for me personally, I took the D2 to the worst spots I had a cleaned up on & did even better. The D2 has the right facilities on the detector to control the responses from old iron like silencer, bottle cap & recovery etc etc. HiSq became my standard hunting audio after years of PWM. I only hunt audio whichever machine I have. Speed is of the essence on the coast & I won't waste time looking at its display. So the 9" got full marks easily.

The Manti replaced my 5 year old 800 & I used it a lot on fields looking for ancient items. When the M8 coil finally arrived, I quickly got one and used it on the places I took the D2 with the 9" on the coast. That is now my favourite buy why?

Working exactly the same spot as I did with the D2, I can make some observations but thats all they are unfortunately. In spots of big iron I always move as much as I can from the surface in this spot. I very carefully 'paint' the area as if painting with a 2" brush. Carefully & very slowly going at it from all angles - the MOST important factor I think. I did take my old Compass XP Pro there & also did very well! and why not? a great old machine with a CONCENTRIC coil....This is now 2 years of pummeling the same 50 yard square area. The d2 found a massive amount of stuff there, mostly coinage & related type items. The M8 has done me extremely well in the same spot, I was a little surprised but I know the Manti for me, responds better to small to very small non-ferrous items with its audio. That's NOT to say the D2 wouldn't detect them.

All I can say is that i'm finding more smaller items (as well as plenty of bigger) than I did before with the d2. But, the amount is consistently higher quite easily. However, an obvious answer is that I have already taken out a lot of other stuff making it easier for the M8. But, I don't think so as the last three trips still yielded 150 old coins with the M8. Easy ones for the D2 as well, but in amongst that, are these smaller less conductive pieces consistently more than I found pre-M8. I do feel its footprint is a big part of the answer, but obviously the Manti itself I feel can respond better to tiny collectable items so that's included as well.

But the D2 is always, always, my first choice to get in quick & clear out at the fastest possible rate.

I think the end result is that the factors are:

1. The operator & their technique

2. The site

3. The detector (very last)

[Jeff McClendon]

Here are semi realistic direct comparison results for small gold nuggets and a USA nickel test of Deus 2 9" coil versus Manticore M8 coil.

Deus 2 version 2.0 FMF Goldfield, Disc IAR 0, Sensitivity 95 of 99*****please note*****, reactivity 2, audio response 3, threshold 4.

Manticore Goldfield Multi, Prospecting audio, no discrimination, Sensitivity 20 of 35 ******please note***** recovery speed 4, threshold 4.

I used a pair of Nokta Legend headphones and a wired audio cable with both detectors. EMI was an issue. 

I used a 0.05 gram nugget and a 0.15 gram nugget under 1" of moderately to highly iron mineralized Arizona gold field dirt. This dirt's magnetite mineralization almost filled up the Deus 2 iron mineralization meter. 

I used a 0.25 gram nugget under 3" of the same dirt.

I used a 5 gram USA modern nickel under 4" of the same dirt

Any depths reported beyond those were "air gap" depths swinging the coils an inch or a few inches above the top surface of the dirt.

 

 

Here are the results of each detector giving 2 way hits.

0.05 gram nugget under 1" of AZ dirt no air gap:         Deus 2 Good 2 way hits. Manticore Good 2 way hits

0.05 gram nugget under 1" of AZ dirt and 1" air gap:   Deus 2 No response.       Manticore Good 2 way hits

0.15 gram nugget under 1" of AZ dirt and 1" air gap:    Deus 2 Good 2 way hits. Manticore Good 2 way hits

0.15 gram nugget under 1" of AZ dirt and 2" air gap:   Deus 2 Weak 2 way hits.  Manticore Good 2 way hits

0.25 gram nugget under 3" of AZ dirt  no air gap:        Deus 2 Good 2 way hits. Manticore Good 2 way hits

0.25 gram nugget under 3" of AZ dirt and 1" air gap:   Deus 2 No response.       Manticore Good 2 way hits

0.25 gram nugget under 3" of AZ dirt & 1.5" air gap:    Deus 2 No response.       Manticore Weak 2 way hits

5 gram US nickel under 4 " of AZ dirt no air gap:       Deus 2 Good 2 way ID 62. Manticore Good 2 way ID 26

Those target IDs were correct.

5 gram US nickel under 4" of AZ dirt and 2" air gap: Deus 2 Fair 2 way ID 00.    Manticore Good 2 way ID 26

Manticore target ID correct.

5 gram US nickel under 4" of AZ dirt and 5" air gap: Deus 2 Weak 2 way no ID: Manticore Weak 2 way ID 56 

[Skull diver]

2 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

5 gram US nickel under 4" of AZ dirt and 5" air gap: Deus 2 Weak 2 way no ID: Manticore Weak 2 way ID 56 

This figure makes me think a lot about the allocation difference between the two...

Thank you!

[Chesroy]

Soooo Steve

Have you made your mind up ? I think from reading all the Manticore/Comparison threads and your own comments regarding not really gelling with the D2, you really underneath want the Manticore ! So have you bought one yet ! its been long enough now, time to dive in and make your own mind up about its performance 😁

[stupot]

Now it could be that an elliptical coil might appear for the d2. That would certainly be an interesting advancement for the d2, as it was for the d1. The latter machine became a whole new unit with HF operation.

Fingers crossed !

My original observations from my last post regarding the m8, have not changed at all. I'm often hunting in places of a lot of big iron. I can do well with the m8 above the d2 9". Primarily due to its shape of course, but an elliptical from XP, might alter things.

[Steve Herschbach]

On 4/11/2024 at 3:58 AM, Chesroy said:

Soooo Steve

Have you made your mind up ? I think from reading all the Manticore/Comparison threads and your own comments regarding not really gelling with the D2, you really underneath want the Manticore ! So have you bought one yet ! its been long enough now, time to dive in and make your own mind up about its performance 😁

Long story is I was an early prototype tester on the Manticore. The performance has never really been a question for me. I've worked with Minelab on various projects for over a decade but I had to bail on the Manticore before release due to health issues which made detecting out of the question for a time (got both hips replaced).

One thing I have told Minelab repeatedly over the years is that accessory coils should be developed along with the detector, so that all models have at least three coils on release. Small, medium, large. Instead, accessory coils get very low priority and take ages to come out. I get cranky about certain things, being ignored is high on the list, and swore I would not get a Manticore until the 5x8 coil was available. I thought and still think that coil will outperform on the Manticore... not that there was ever one to test before release. I dabbled with the D2 instead, but no, I am not a fan of a limited selection of wireless coils with zero prospect of aftermarket support. It may take forever but that does eventually come for Minelab models. I also favor the Minelab control/menu scheme as something I am more familiar with.

You are correct then in that I always knew I'd be getting a Manticore eventually as it just jives better with me and my style of detecting. But again, the lack of coils really irritated me and I basically boycotted getting a Manticore until that got resolved. Well that has finally happened and I did actually get a Manticore with 5x8 coil recently. Another reality for me however is that my PI detecting tends to have priority and so I have not been in any rush to get out and use it. I doubt I'll have anything to add to any of the ongoing discussion because other people have long since passed me up in knowledge and experience with the Manticore. My early prototype use does not even really apply as many changes were made between then and final release, and even an update since then. In that respect I'm as much a newbie as anyone with the Manticore.

My shiny new toy, not even peeled the screen protector off yet....

[Chesroy]

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Long story is I was an early prototype tester on the Manticore. The performance has never really been a question for me. I've worked with Minelab on various projects for over a decade but I had to bail on the Manticore before release due to health issues which made detecting out of the question for a time (got both hips replaced).

Well done Steve I hope you really gel with it and you enjoy playing with your new toy, hope you have recovered fully from your operation, I had one hip done  so admiration for having 2 done at once.

I also take note that you kept people real on the Manticore frenzy with your knowledgable take on things.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

6 minutes ago, Chesroy said:

Well done Steve I hope you really gel with it and you enjoy playing with your new toy, hope you have recovered fully from your operation, I had one hip done  so admiration for having 2 done at once.

I also take note that you kept people real on the Manticore frenzy with your knowledgable take on things.

Well more like two operations a few months apart, but long since over that now. A new lease on life and detecting for sure, thanks. 

[phrunt]

On 2/27/2024 at 6:11 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

I used a 0.05 gram nugget and a 0.15 gram nugget under 1" of moderately to highly iron mineralized Arizona gold field dirt. This dirt's magnetite mineralization almost filled up the Deus 2 iron mineralization meter. 

I used a 0.25 gram nugget under 3" of the same dirt.

I used a 5 gram USA modern nickel under 4" of the same dirt

Any depths reported beyond those were "air gap" depths swinging the coils an inch or a few inches above the top surface of the dirt.

Thanks for that testing Jeff, I'd missed it until now.  A bit of a question for you, with many detectors I find that they hate air gaps, for example I can detect a coin at 8" with the Equinox and 11" coil, I lift the coil 2" and the coin is gone or best case identifies as iron.  If I then move that coin down 2" in the soil and detect it, it detects fine, and I can go another couple of inches.  

The CTX and Manticore are two models of detector that don't seem bothered by air gaps.  

Why this has always bothered me is the areas I hunt often have quite long grass, they're not well mowed, and when the mower guy shows up I get all excited and go detecting the next day so I can get closer to the ground.  when I was using my Equinox 800 the longer the grass got the less finds I had, after a mow it was like night and day.  With the Manticore and CTX handling the air gap much better I wasn't so bothered when the grass was a bit longer, I was still doing just as well.

I am wondering if the Deus 2 is one of the detectors that hates an air gap.  The Manticore I already know doesn't, so if the Deus 2 does hate an air gap then it could go a little way to explain why all the targets dropped off so much when you lifted the coil.  I've never owned a Deus 2, probably never will, but I think my Deus 1 hates an air gap, although I don't find it a very deep detector in the first place.