XP Deus 2 With 9" Coil Vs Manticore With M8 Coil

[Steve Herschbach]

This is for people who have used both. Not really interested in opinionating from those who are just speculating. I have been hanging tough with my Equinox 800 package, in large part due to the coil selection. Both the D2 and Manticore have left me wanting in that department so far. XP holding out on the 5x10 coil, and Minelab holding out on, well, just about everything up to now. But at least the M8 and M15 coils are reaching user hands, and I am hopeful we might see a Coiltek 5x10 someday.

But to keep it on the straight and narrow lets consider two coils only. The Deus 2 with 9" round as it's smallest option at this time, versus Manticore with 5x8 M8 coil. In general if coil sizes were identical I think most people would give the D2 the edge on picking non-ferrous out of a nail bed. But coils rule in the end, and I suspect the smaller M8 coil might tip the equation in favor of the Manticore for hunting dense trash.

I'm also a small gold nugget guy as most people know. While some have knocked the Deus 2 for small gold capability my buddy Condor has one and does quite well on small gold with it in my opinion. As in I have been impressed. Yet another person (abenson) has the M8 on the Manticore and has killed it on some impressively tiny gold, but did note coil knock as an issue, something not seen on the Deus 2. That is however very dependent on sensitivity and even more so ground balance settings, so jury out on that for sure.

Long story short I am strongly considering on replacing my Equinox 800 by next year with either the Deus 2 or Manticore. I tend to lean into small coils with VLF so the 9" or M8 are a real focal point for me. Frankly, if XP released the 5x10 for the Deus 2 it would probably be game over for me, but they really don't want me having that detector so are refusing so far to release that coil for the Deus 2. Yeah, I have heard the reasons why not - falling on deaf ears here. You out there XP? Give us the 5x10 for the Deus 2 and we can end this debate now.

Until then however the Manticore M8 combo rates high with me, not least because I am simply more used to the Minelab way of doing things with menus. XP is a more radical shift for me. And in the long run I do think the Manticore will have the better coil selection, as we can at least hope for limited aftermarket coil support. Something we will never see with XP.

Blah blah blah I do go on. So what do you people who have used both think about the D2 9" combo vs Manticore M8 setup?

 

 

[abenson]

As you know Steve, I've had the M8 coil for at least 6 months now. So I've had a bit of time to compare the Deus 2 9" and Manticore M8 in various situations. Because I do all sorts of detecting from ghost towns, parks, beach and gold nugget hunting. I really couldn't live with just one or the other. In fact I've cut my detector arsenal to just the Manticore and the Deus 2 for my VLF units. If we're just talking about gold, I personally like the Manticore with the M8 coil setup over the Deus 2 9" coil setup. The Manticore is a little harder to tame in bad dirt and/or hot rock situations, but I feel like the trade off is worth the extra depth and sensitivity I get with the Manticore. Here are a few more videos you or others can take a look at with the Manticore M8 coil and/or the Deus 2.

 

 

[Jeff McClendon]

The "Small Gold" video by Abenson is very much like what I have experienced using V2.0 Deus 2 9" coil vs the Equinox 800 or 900 with the Coiltek 10X5 and the Legend with the LG24 coil.

Even with the Deus 2 version 2.0 update, Andy's video demonstrates that the 9" coil audio responses using FMF Goldfield on small sub 0.25 gram targets still lack some punch and definition. Once the target is really close to the 9" coil in Andy's video, the audio responses sound much sharper. 

The Manticore's M8 coil for the most part gave very sharp audio responses on all of the targets. By sharp, I mean that with practice I could learn some audio tendencies and characteristics by listening carefully to those audio responses. Deus 2's 9" coil responses are so weak and undefined on some of those legitimate targets in the video before digging them that I would have a hard time learning much from them.

What this video shows has been my experience with Deus 2 compared to the Equinox 800/900 and Legend. The 800, 900 and Legend using their 10X5" type elliptical coils gave obvious "investigate me" hits on targets that Deus 2 with the 9" coil either basically missed or gave very weak, undefined audio responses on.

However, XP definitely improved Goldfield in V2.0.

I am betting that the targets Andy detected in his video with Deus 2 V2.0 software would have sounded a lot weaker or would have been missed using earlier software in my opinion.   

I received my M8 coil today 2/26/24 from Bill Southern....thanks Bill. I posted a head to head comparison on page 3 of this topic.

[Chase Goldman]

Perspective:  I am relic hunting, primarily in mild ground but have a lot of mineralized ground experience with the D2.  Very little with the Manticore, though, because I have been waiting for the M8 coil which I just received in late December.  I don't like to detect mineralized ground with a VLF with coils with footprints larger than the D2's 9".  Ideal footprint would be the 10x5.  The M8 is a good option (8x5.5), though a greater coverage footprint (10x5) or 11x6 would be ideal.  I have no experience detecting natural gold.

I have been frequently detecting a productive Colonial home site with my digging buddy that has multiple thick iron patches hiding relics going back to the 1600's.   We have been pounding the hot spots with D2's with the 13" coil (fringes and open field searching) and 9" coil to pick keepers out of the heart of the iron patch.   I recently decided to give it a go with the Manticore M8 coil and had success similar to that I had with the D2 and the 9" coil.  I know Steve has seen my post on this, but for those of you with the same question as Steve but have not seen it, you can find it here.   As far as comparative coil separation performance is concerned, it is hard for me to say with certainty because the detectors are different, plus I have less experience with the Manticore than I do with the D2, but I would say they were at least equivalent.  But I can say, that overall I felt almost like I was using the D2 in a new mode.  It took a little time to get used to the different target IDs and ferrous falsing "tells" (I think I can mitigate this with a more customized ferrous limits setup - but did just fine utilizing the 2-D target trace display as an additional source of information to make a dig decision). 

I primarily use the Deus 2 in Relic Mode with sensitivity usually above 90 (sometimes I reduce it to the mid-to-low 80's to "sift" for non-ferrous amongst really thick iron) with high Iron Amplitude Rejection settings (IAR either at 3 or 5) and adjust reactivity as needed.

I had the Manticore set up in AT General with Enhanced audio, Default tone settings (2-Region, All tones, variable pitch).  After noise cancelling and ground balancing, I set sensitivity at about 23 and left recovery speed and discrimination and ferrous limits at the defaults.  

Below are my keepers from two different hunts at the same site.  The first picture is with the D2 and the 9" coil and the second is the Manticore and the M8 coil.  You can see the similarity of the recoveries from the same area but with the different detectors/coils.  None of the targets are particularly tiny, but notice the small target in the bottom photo in the column all the way to the left, second target up from the bottom.  I am pretty sure that is a tiny piece of silver.  It kind of blew me away, but the audio on the Manticore left no doubt that there was a target there.  I did not test it with the 9" and Deus 2.  Maybe I will do that.  I have found broken off button shanks with the D2 and the 9" coil.  None of these targets, however, qualify as anything close to micro gold targets.

Preliminary Conclusion:  I have yet to find a significant difference in performance that I can attribute solely to the different coils or even to the detectors themselves - I probably need more swing time on the Manticore under different circumstance to be sure.  There are some features I like about swinging the Manticore vs. the Deus (the target trace display, horseshoe button, light overall package with the M8 coil) and vice-versa (rock solid target ID stability and repeatability, All Metal feel of Relic Mode, great separation ability and coverage of the 13" coil, and incredible integration and performance of the M6 pinpointer) such that I am now thinking that I have a situation (facilitated by the Manticore's M8 coil) that is somewhat similar to what I experienced with the Deus 1 and Equinox 800.  Namely, two excellent detectors that compliment each such that I can't see parting with either.  Fortunately, I don't have to, and the fact that they are compact enough that I can bring both along even if I am hiking into a site is a bonus.

 

[Soky72]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:47 AM, abenson said:

As you know Steve, I've had the M8 coil for at least 6 months now. So I've had a bit of time to compare the Deus 2 9" and Manticore M8 in various situations. Because I do all sorts of detecting from ghost towns, parks, beach and gold nugget hunting. I really couldn't live with just one or the other. In fact I've cut my detector arsenal to just the Manticore and the Deus 2 for my VLF units. If we're just talking about gold, I personally like the Manticore with the M8 coil setup over the Deus 2 9" coil setup. The Manticore is a little harder to tame in bad dirt and/or hot rock situations, but I feel like the trade off is worth the extra depth and sensitivity I get with the Manticore. Here are a few more videos you or others can take a look at with the Manticore M8 coil and/or the Deus 2.

 

 

Abenson what's your thoughts on the two for relic hunting? I actually have them both but haven't had any time to run the Manticore M8 yet. I'm a 100% relic hunter and so far with same size coils it's what I've expected in better sound and ergonomics with the D2 but maybe the M8 has its advantages??? The 9" coil is really nice but if they would come out with a 5x9 the m8 might be moot for me. Those narrow coils are great in thick woods.

[abenson]

2 hours ago, Soky72 said:

Abenson what's your thoughts on the two for relic hunting? I actually have them both but haven't had any time to run the Manticore M8 yet. I'm a 100% relic hunter and so far with same size coils it's what I've expected in better sound and ergonomics with the D2 but maybe the M8 has its advantages??? The 9" coil is really nice but if they would come out with a 5x9 the m8 might be moot for me. Those narrow coils are great in thick woods.

I personally like the D2 with the 9" coil when I'm relic hunting. I just find I can move through the iron faster with the Deus.

[strick]

20 minutes ago, abenson said:

I personally like the D2 with the 9" coil when I'm relic hunting. I just find I can move through the iron faster with the Deus.

Exactly. For me it's not really this coil vs that coil...it's more like this machine vs that machine. The iron audio and speed of the D2 is hard to beat for relic hunting in the nails...not to take away from the M-core's speed it moves fast enough...but the target trace on the M-Core is great for parks which are loaded with bottle caps.  I don't dig beer caps with M-Core... it's similar to the the CTX...you can disk out the beer caps and still hit small pieces of non ferrous without fear of missing gold. Both have their own place...each for a specific scenario.

strick

[Steve Herschbach]

Well yeah it is this machine vs that machine as I’ll own one or the other but not both. That’s the easy way out of the question when for this thread it’s more like Highlander - there can be only one! So you guys still feel a Deus 2 with 9” coil outperforms a Manticore with 5x8 in dense ferrous? Around old mining camps I’d expect copious amounts of disintegrated flat roofing steel and decomposed tin cans by the ton. Would not the Manticore be better in those locations than the D2 if the D2 is indeed more prone to falsing on bottle caps? I’m far more likely to be hunting gold of any sort in old camps than gold in modern parks. I’m also far more likely to be using a PI, period. But if I run into too much ferrous it’s coming down to which to use, the D2 or Manticore with smallest coil. Absolute smallest nugget capability is secondary to good ferrous handling while getting the nuggets amongst the trash. Camps are often built right on the best ground. Nugget hunting 101 says going for weight is better than chasing the tiniest bits. Like I said, I saw Condor use the D2 with 9” coil to very good effect in just this situation. Is there any reason to think the Manticore with M8 coil might be the better option?

Asked another way I’m taking you to an 1850 location with some great gold. But the gold is in the middle of a tons of square nails and decomposed cans left by 100 years of miners. No modern trash, bullet bullets or brass the only real finds other than gold. You have a Deus 2 with 9” coil and Manticore with 5x8 coil and mean Steve will only let you take one. Which do you grab? What I’m hearing is the Deus 2 might be the one to go with.

It’s too bad marketing has brainwashed concentric out of existence as an option. It’s vastly superior to DD for handling flat steel. Ironically concentric is making a comeback in some PI circles but is now all but dead as a VLF option.

[palzynski]

19 hours ago, Soky72 said:

The 9" coil is really nice but if they would come out with a 5x9 the m8 might be moot for me. Those narrow coils are great in thick woods.

Yes but you will loose depth with a narrow coil . A 9" goes definitely deeper than a 5X9 , I have measured this on my bed tests with a D1 , comparing the D1 9" and D1 5X9 , and the Vanquish 540 10X8 and 8X6  . 

And you still get an excellent separation in the irons with the D2 9", I use it all the time with on my nails beds over here in France ... 

A 5X9 would be interesting if you are looking for tiny targets I think ( under 1 or 2g , nuggets for example ) . When relic hunting the targets are usually bigger , at least 2 or 3g and often over 10g  , then clearly a 9" would be my 1st choice  ..

 

[Steve Herschbach]

17 minutes ago, palzynski said:

Yes but you will loose depth with a narrow coil . A 9" goes definitely deeper than a 5X9 , I have measured this on my bed tests with a D1 , comparing the D1 9" and D1 5X9 , and the Vanquish 540 10X8 and 8X6  . 

And you still get an excellent separation in the irons with the D2 9", I use it all the time with on my nails beds over here in France ... 

A 5X9 would be interesting if you are looking for tiny targets I think ( under 1 or 2g , nuggets for example ) . When relic hunting the targets are usually bigger , at least 2 or 3g and often over 10g  , then clearly a 9" would be my 1st choice  ..

Depth may not matter in a bed of nails. Have you actually used the Manticore with 5x8 coil versus Deus 2 with 9" round coil or are you just opining as I asked people not to do? Assuming the 9" round coil gets better separation than a 5x8 seems like a very big assumption to me unless you know that for sure. Processing can only compensate so much for the undeniable fact a 9" round coil will have more targets under it at once than a 5x8 coil in a dense trash situation.