Bad 2 Directional Falses After Upgrade With 6" Coil In Iron

[amergin]

On 11/30/2018 at 2:52 PM, Tiftaaft said:

I have the 6" loaded on my 600 with the original firmware... hunted with it today... found a 7" War Nick in difficult soil in a trashy area next to a baseball field concession stand (you can imagine the noise there).  While I am switching back and forth between the stock and 15" on my 800.... this 6" never fails to uncover something I didn't expect.  Do I dig some iron?  yes.  Is that different than any other of 15 machines I have used... resounding no.  Your mileage may vary... but I am in no hurry to take the 6" off.  Tim.

Congratulations, thats exactly how it worked for me before up dating Firmware, I was delighted that it did as promised and found items missed after multiple visits with different settings with my 11" coil,  As the focus of this discussion is seeing who has noticed a difference after firmware let me know if you up grade and see if it all changes, it appears some people are fine and some have really seen a difference, I will post comments from another forum also I know another user sold his due to the same problem I am having

 

Keep up the good work

 

[Alluminati]

6 minutes ago, amergin said:

Congratulations, thats exactly how it worked for me before up dating Firmware, I was delighted that it did as promised and found items missed after multiple visits with different settings with my 11" coil,  As the focus of this discussion is seeing who has noticed a difference after firmware let me know if you up grade and see if it all changes, it appears some people are fine and some have really seen a difference, I will post comments from another forum also I know Calabash digger sold his due to the same problem I am having

 

Keep up the good work

 

In your first post you said you were "still" having problems with the 6" coil after update.

 

[amergin]

Clarification

This discussion is not about who is right or wrong, or if you are not experiencing it it cannot exist

I simply said   "please post your experiences here, if you've experienced bad 2 directional falses after upgrade with 6" coil in Iron

as I want to pass it on to them, I appreciate all the advice and reading others experiences, Lets stay focused,

The discussion on Dectector technology and Iron in general or users expecting a free luch is not this discussion

its great that some people are not experiencing , but some people are, but it would be no reason not to buy coil

here area list of comments from other forums from people having similar issues:

User 1
The promise of the 6" coil seeing through nails was true, I experienced it myself first hand on sites i already cleaned out with 11" coil, but the upgrade turned the now obsolete 6" into an Iron lover

User 2
I've found some nice silver with the 6", but I can't handle the constant nail falsing. Iron Bias or not, it happens too frequently with it. So I had to ask myself, what am I really gaining with the 6"? The only positive for me is the phenomenally light weight and balance. All else, the stock coil seems to separate near equally when adjustments are made to recovery and swing speed. Also, I have to swing twice as much to cover the same ground with the 6. So I've decided to ditch the 6". I wanted to like the coil so badly, but it's been mostly a $180 nail finder for me. YMMV.

User 3
pre upgrade I found the 6" great when I got it on Iron filled colonial cellar sites , I had already hunted out with 11" it did as it promised find smaller good items amongst iron that I did not detect with multiple visits with 11" in many different modes and settings now after the upgrade, it falses badly on iron and sequels high pitched loudly only big iron I seriously thinking of reversing the up-grade before using 6" on a site I hunted out with 11" and then loading up grade when starting at a new site with 11"

User 4
Roll it back! I experienced the same with the update, that the 6" falsing was to the point of absurdity. It would also high-tone on moderately mineralized rocks. Rolling it back cut the 6" iron falsing down and eliminated the rock falses completely, but it still falses on nails too frequently here in my ground. I think I mentioned it elsewhere, but it's almost like the 6" coil needs its own dedicated program. Not sure that is possible, but one can wish.

User 5
Not sure what they did with the upgrade other than fix the obvious issues, but we need another version to cure these iron problems we are now having.

User 6
I sold mine,      it worked great pre upgrade, Now its useless, falses, even when I go over signal from multi directions signal is solid, I dig and it’s a nail

 User 7
 Thanks I agree , it would be nice to have a dedicated program for 6" with upgrade as I am very happy with 11" after upgrade,  11" definitely sharper especially when you run back over a spot you've hunted at low recovery and high sensitivity swinging slowly the smalls pop sort of acts like a 6" should

 User 8
I'm having a love/hate relationship with the 6" coil at the moment. I love that it is a deep laser beam, but hate that my nails have increased dramatically. I've tried to mitigate this with iron bias, sens, balance, and all other settings, but there's just no way around it. I'm being very picky too, but these are solid, consistent, repeatable VIDS in all directions... I've had my Nox since February and use it regularly, so I know my machine very well. It's enough of an annoyance that I am replacing my ProPointer with a Profind 35 in hopes of taking advantage of the pinpointer's iron disc. Otherwise, curious to hear other's experiences in regards to the 6" and nails.

User 9
I have the current update and only used the 6" once pre-update, and didn't dig any nails on that pre-update outing. I'm wondering if the update has made the 6" a nail magnet. The weird thing is that the nails I'm digging aren't just your typical falsing nails (bent 90's, square head, etc). They are ALL types including small 1" straight pieces. I am mostly a park1 one hunter, but have tested it across all park/field modes.

User 10
Bummer. Not sure I will keep it in the long run. I dunno. I went from digging 1 or 2 nails per hunt with the stock to ~25% nails with the 6". It's almost absurd, really, but I love the weight, balance, and depth.

User 11
The other new annoyance of the 6" is that it hits certain hot rocks as good high tones at my salt beaches. GB or not. Luckily they have a very short/crisp tone so I can usually tell. But it slows me down. Stock coil never did that.

User 12
It's almost like the 6" coil needs its own dedicated program, tailored for its size. Not sure that would ever happen, but maybe another update will resolve the crazy falsing.

User 13
Yes , sold my 6 inch coil. Gonna try another brand with a small coil to fit that part of my detecting. Thought I had it covered with the Nox 11 ,6 and Deus 9 hf coils but the 6 was disappointment after upgrade .

 

User1
Yes, the 6" with update is horrendous on two-way iron falsing, in my experiences. The falsing is so convincing of a good target that it is impossible to ignore. It also gives crisp high tones on hotter rocks at the beach that sound like small silver. I couldn't find any way around it, so I rolled the software back and haven't looked back. The 6" with the stock software is killer. Yeah, the depth meter is iffy, but after 9 months of using this machine, I've learned to listen for depth vs staring at the meter. Yeah, I might miss a large silver sitting perfectly 90 degrees vertically, but I'm ok with that. I'm having my best year ever using the stock software with both 11" and 6" coils. Roll it back, my dude.

User 2
As an engineer, I love the science behind this theory, but since I have two Equinoxes, I have purposely kept one dialed back to the original firmware for comparison purposes and while I have not had a chance to do exhaustive, controlled A to B comparisons, I have observed the falsing (or should I say high tone ferrous affinity) associated with the small coil and even the stock coil to be relatively slightly more pronounced with the post upgrade machine vs. pre upgrade at the same site under the same environmental conditions.  Again not scientific, I did not walk around my iron field site carrying two detectors at the same time, just observed switching off between the two over the course of back to back multi-day hunts at the same sites and my qualitative observations. The effect you describe, however, is real and affects ground noise feedback, ground phase variability, and the ground balance tracking algorithm, as well.   The enhanced halo effect in moist ground can definitely result in more falsing overall, but there is something definitely different in the way Equinox responds in this regard post upgrade.  

Frankly, overall I have not seen anything that tangibly compels me to go solely with either the post or pre upgrade firmware versions.  I like that the known User Profile reset bug has been addressed in the update and low profile, high mass, high conductive coin target ID (aka as the quarter on edge issue) response has been improved but perhaps with the subtle downside of falsing being introduced, but I don't think they "broke" anything.  To me, the upgrade is kind of a move sideways from a performance standpoint rather than a full on improvement.  Perhaps that is a function of the Equinox performance being pretty damn good and dialed-in out of the gate, so all ML can do with SW performance tweaks is nibble around the edges which just results tradeoffs while fixing fringe "issues" like this low probability on-edge coin thing and depth meter performance which is inherently unreliable outside of dime sized targets, anyway.  Regardless, looking forward to the next upgrade.

 

[amergin]

4 minutes ago, Alluminati said:

In your first post you said you were "still" having problems with the 6" coil after update.

 

yes its not working for me and others ,  whats your point in relation to the inital question at the start of this discussion

, you said you haven't used yours much so when you do let us know if its fine, hopefully it is

Thanks

[Alluminati]

My point is you had a problem with the first firmware, so what are you comparing it too? Do you have a time machine in which you've tried a future version?

I said I haven't used mine much, but you haven't asked me how many hours. Having a debate about who is entitled to have an opinion about a coil without that information is silly. Like going off half-cocked to the engineers.

If we are 5 pages in and still isn't apparent what the problem is, how do you expect the engineers to do anything for you with such poorly explained information.  Bunch of rumors, I read this, and this guy did that, wheres the beef?, give them/us something to work with.

 

[amergin]

10 minutes ago, Alluminati said:

My point is you had a problem with the first firmware, so what are you comparing it too? Do you have a time machine in which you've tried a future version?

I said I haven't used mine much, but you haven't asked me how many hours. Having a debate about who is entitled to have an opinion about a coil without that information is silly. Like going off half-cocked to the engineers.

If we are 5 pages in and still isn't apparent what the problem is, how do you expect the engineers to do anything for you with such poorly explained information.  Bunch of rumors, I read this, and this guy did that, wheres the beef?, give them/us something to work with.

 

who had a problem with original factory setting, can you go back read original posts

 

if your not reading properly no wonder your upset, 

 

its great others are not having  a problem, and also great you don't want to believe others are,

 

its a nice day out and I have better things to like swinging my machine  

 

as i am not interested only if you are having problem

[Alluminati]

On 12/1/2018 at 5:22 AM, amergin said:

Clarification

This discussion is not about who is right or wrong, or if you are not experiencing it it cannot exist

I simply said   "please post your experiences here, if you've experienced bad 2 directional falses after upgrade with 6" coil in Iron

as I want to pass it on to them, I appreciate all the advice and reading others experiences, Lets stay focused,

The discussion on Dectector technology and Iron in general or users expecting a free luch is not this discussion

its great that some people are not experiencing , but some people are, but it would be no reason not to buy coil

here area list of comments from other forums from people having similar issues:

 

You know, somehow this was so predictable, that you would turn out to be a blow-hard, when approached with a bit of common sense.

Perhaps it was a slip on your, when you revealed that your ultimate goal with this thread is to be "right" about something, rather then just an average detectorist going through a iron spell.

These quotes you posted don't correlate what you are saying,  first thing they do is roll back the firmware?, not one of those people specifically stated they even tried to turn down the sensitivity. For Pete's sake the last quote is from this forum and says it does the same thing with the 11" lol.

So now what, engineers contact all these people to make sure they weren't running 20+ in iron?
Engineers go and dig up your site and make sure your not hitting flat iron and horseshoes all the while claiming 2" straight cut nails?

The benefit of the doubt has been lost on this one. Telling me to stay focused, as if I was off topic, is rude. It's one thing to disagree, but when you start playing these games you lose some credibility.

 

 

[Alluminati]

41 minutes ago, amergin said:

if your not reading properly no wonder your upset, 

 

 

I'm upset with YOU'RE communication. ?

[Wendell Clark]

I read the entire thread this morning. My 800 has the update,with the 6 on it I am digging a bit more iron at depth.

The flip side is that it finds previously missed high conductors in high trash areas, thats a fair exchange in my book. There seems to 

be a difference in tone quality, a slight shortening or clip when it falses.I am keeping mine as there are no cellar holes or CW battle fields

here in Southern California.