Steve Herschbach

Interesting. Let’s meet for a little Manticore and 24K comparison in that regard. One thing I like about the 24K 6” concentric it is very knock resistant and makes for a good scrubber coil, something I could not do with the Monster. I’ll have to talk about that in my new review as the 24K and Gold Bug 2 are standout machines for coil knock resistance, and that one fact has lead me to favor those two models over the other VLFs. Monster was the worst, and my Gold Kruzer was also very susceptible, but it was a prototype, so I can’t speak to the newer ones. But it was why I ditched the Kruzer and ultimately why I ditched the Monster. When chasing the tiny bits I not only scrub but use the coil as a rake. My Equinox 6” does well in that regard also, does not quite match the Bug 2 or 24K on the tiniest bits, yet it’s very close. Amazingly so for a detector when nugget hunting was last on the engineers list of importance.

Not saying your ground balance is off. It may be spot on. But where it is at is different than where Simon is, or where I am, and where it is changes the susceptibility to knock. Do an air test, crank the sensitivity, and tap the coil with a wood block. Try setting the ground balance at each extreme and in the middle, and see if there is any difference.

Or you have a bad coil. Been known to happen with Minelab as of late, and due to the higher voltage to the coil tolerances are way higher for Manticore coils than with Equinox coils.

Yeah, little know fact coil knock is related not just to sensitivity, but the ground balance setting. Even suppressed background EMI plays into it, which would give the Manticore more issues than a Monster, the Manticore being a multi.

I absolutely agree with all that and more Simon. The Gold Monster can drive some people nuts with coil knock sensitivity. I think it not coming with a normal telescoping rod is a crime. A screw together rod? Really? And as top heavy roll over prone as a Gold Bug 2. I think the 24K does the job as well or better in a better package, with better tuning options. But in the end, so what? People don’t want a Garrett, they want a Minelab. Ask any dealer what people want and what is selling. Gold Monster all day long and just a smattering of other stuff. That’s just the way it is unless a dealer consciously tries to talk people into something else, and in sales it’s best to give people what they want, not what you think they need. Trying to switch horses can lose a sale as often as not, so you can’t blame most dealers for just going with the flow. And the flow is to the Minelab brand name. To be fair, the Monster is as close to automatic as they come, and for a lot of people that really matters. You’d be amazed how many people never really comprehend or learn how to ground balance a detector like a Gold Bug 2 properly. And to you other point, yeah, I agree. I use a VLF so little for nuggets that having a dedicated VLF makes little sense. My Equinox serves the purpose as well or even better for some uses (think large nuggets in steel can infested bucket line tailing piles = Equinox with 15” coil) than all but the hottest nugget VLF on the tiniest bits.

I have decided I have been patching up this old guide for too long, and so am going to rewrite it from top to bottom, and will post a separate thread about it when I’m done. The VLF world in particular is weird to consider. For outright performance on tiny gold a Gold Bug 2 is still one of the best. And I actually think the Garrett 24K is a great little detector. As I point out in my last revision, the Nokta Gold Kruzer is an incredible value. But the reality is the Gold Monster totally dominates everything else. Who other than Nenad even uses a Gold Kruzer? A used 24K on our classifieds never did sell, even at a bargain price and with testimonials. Nobody wants a Garrett 24K. It seems Minelab has come to dominate so much that anything other than a Gold Monster is almost irrelevant. Among the people I associate with everyone uses a PI. And again, nobody I know is dumping a Minelab to get an Axiom. (Edit -I stand corrected, except Jeff McClenden ) I know the 5000 still has fans, but literally everyone I associate with is running a 7000 or a 6000 or both. I guess I could to a large degree just toss the guide out and tell people get a 6000 or 7000 and/or Gold Monster and be done with it. And in the end that’s pretty sound advice. It kind of rankles on me because I think competition is good for all of us, but is there really any competition in the world of the serious gold prospectors, other than Minelab vs Minelab?

Monster is $999 on all the sites it is for sale on right now so something is not matching up. Lower price for new package with 5” coil only versus old two coil pack? Makes sense if so as $999 was getting too expensive vs the competition, and I’ll rework the commentary if so. With VLF all being so close to each other it often gets down to where the price is at. I don’t think any of them stand out as being “the best” any more. It is more personal preference than anything. At least PI you can still see some measurable differences in performance that matter. A 7000 has a substantial edge over an Axiom. Not twice the depth by a long shot, but definitely inches on the bigger stuff. The smaller the gold the less gap there is between the two to where the Axiom has an edge on the tiniest bits with its small coils. So the nature of the gold matters a great deal, and a VLF is very much the better choice for some locations. There is no one machine that is best for all circumstances, which complicates things and leads to all the internet arguments. Especially from those that must insist what they use is always the best, and everyone else is using second best. Most the online guides are click bait. We are moving to a fact free world where only opinion and “influence” matters and experts are looked down on. Nuance does not matter since answers have to fit on bumper stickers or in a tweet. My guide is irrelevant in this new world compared to 20 years ago and just gets lost in the noise. How is the average person to know the difference anymore? I admit I never paid much attention to the Goldfinder and nobody else has either. Must sell in Africa or something.

I started that guide over 20 years ago and have updated it ever since. It served a real need back in the day as there was very little information on gold nugget detectors at all, especially from anyone that had used all of them. But its near outlived its purpose now. The internet is flooded with information, and these days people look more to YouTube. So I'll fine tune this last 2024 update, but it may be the last unless something changes dramatically, which I do not expect. The main issue is the tech maxing out and so it's getting down to splitting hairs between many capable detectors. We are awash now in great VLF detectors in particular, with the multipurpose machines like the Equinox, Legend, Deus, and Manticore all getting so good that the need for a dedicated nugget VLF is fading fast.

Thanks Simon, I deleted that bit. The good news is the 6” concentric finally arrived after that note was made.

If anyone has comments on the Quest vs Minelab please post in the comparison forum, not here.

OK, quickie 2024 update done, but will fine tune it as I think about it more over the week. The landscape changed a lot with the Nokta Gold Kruzer being reduced in price to $549. I mean seriously, 61 kHz, full target id, fully submersible, comes with two coils - that is pretty hard to beat as a VLF nugget hunter for the price. I'm sure Minelab still dominates the game with the Gold Monster but at $999 and only one coil now it's getting pricey as a VLF option. PI pretty much boils down to what you get for the money. If I had to make a living with a nugget detector I'd be using a GPZ 7000. But at $8999 now it is a very expensive option for a lot of people. The GPX 6000 out of the box does better on the tinier gold than the 7000 but lacks it's punch on the weightier gold. Still, big nuggets are rare and so for many people the GPX 6000 at $2500 less ($6499) is the best value. And finally you have the Garrett Axiom, which in a nutshell offers 90% of the performance of a GPX 6000 for 60% of the price at $3995. Despite rumors of it being discontinued the GPX 5000 is still available for about the same price as the Axiom, and although I think the Axiom has the edge on tiny gold, the 5000 is still a great value for hunting larger nuggets at depth when paired with larger coils. If big gold at depth is the name of the game, if I could not afford a GPZ 7000 I'd be looking at the GPX 5000 as the alternative over both the 6000 and Axiom.

That's a lot of hard patient work but the reward is obvious. I'm a little horrified seeing the fine gold scattered around the scale though. Anyway, good on you John, you certainly earned it!

I'm an Alaskan living in Nevada. Looks like maybe time to update my old nugget guide........

Not really. But since you asked….. from my perspective VLF is maxing out with a plethora of excellent devices available. Obviously Garrett needs to have something comparable if they want to stay relevant. But at this point the industry is in a race to the bottom as regards the price performance ratio. Nokta Legend $549? Deus 2 for $1200 or as low as $700? The Garrett AT Max is $749 so unless they are really going to drop prices I’d posit a multi at $800 or more. At that level it would have to be a rough match for these other machines at least or may as well not bother. I’d be more than willing to consider something packaged like the Apex but containing Legend/Deus 2/Manticore type performance. Can Garrett pull it off? Are their engineers up to the task? I guess time will tell. I honestly have no insider knowledge on any of it as my interests lie more in the PI world and so my attention is elsewhere in 2024. I’m rooting for Garrett and wish them the best on it as I’d like to see at least one U.S. stay relevant in this industry. That will be difficult as competition is fierce now and margins under pressure as companies try to squeeze more blood from what business remains in the metal detecting industry. My thought is that we are now slightly past “peak detecting” with ever depleting finds being a reality for most of us. I would not want to be a metal detector manufacturer at this point in time, as the glory days are probably in the rear view mirror. Not a very rosy outlook for manufacturers, but actually good news for buyers. Prices were getting nothing but higher as Minelab dominated everything for 20 years, but now the tide has turned and even Minelab is churning out high value propositions like the X-Terra Pro. We should be seeing top notch performance at relative bargain prices from here on out.

The terms are simple and as I noted you already satisfied it by making one post. Inactive means people who join and never post once. Not just inactive - never active. No, there is no discussion on these forums about anything that is not strictly metal detecting and gold prospecting. That means most especially anything that has even the remotest smell of political disagreement around it and I would put guns in that category. All available forums are listed on the main forum home page. As far as your books go, unless you think that you are going to be selling them for the big bucks there is little to fear from anyone copying or printing them. Kind of the whole point of writing stuff is to have people read it, so no reason in keeping it to yourself, unless you think you are going to publish and sell them. Yeah, I’ve found a little gold over the years.

He Jerry, Welcome to the forum. You don't have to upload books to maintain membership, though your contributions are welcome I am sure. Your first hello post was all you need to insure the account is not deleted later for being inactive. Just an FYI also - any pdf which can be downloaded and viewed can be printed also by whoever downloads it if they simply take the time to screenshot each page and print it. There are also many easy to obtain software options for cracking pdf files allowing them to be edited and printed. I'm not trying to scare you off, but just letting you know. Again, welcome to the forum.

The key here is that it is your responsibility to know the status of the ground you are on. Ignorance for any reason is not an excuse, otherwise lots of people would be proactively ignorant. I suspect some people throw corner posts on a hole just so they can say they did not see them. Penalties incurred can be facing charges for mineral trespass, and in Alaska at least looking down the wrong end of a 12ga shotgun. There are some people out in the bush you don’t want to get sideways of. On the flip side, I know of people that bluff people off by basically squatting on a location and running people off telling them it is their claim, when in fact it is not. Knowledge is the only solution, and that means learning how to visit the local recording office to pull up claims information. In general online information is only good to the quarter section and often runs late, so the recording office is your best bet for staying out of uncomfortable situations. I’ll be making a visit to mine very soon.

Looks like it worked this time. For all you Deeptech fans I added a deeptech tag to the forum and marked not just this thread but all prior threads mentioning the brand, 18 threads in all at this point. Not enough yet for it's own forum but maybe someday. I add forums based purely on activity level and generally am looking for at least enough threads to fill three or four pages of a separate forum.

Tons of prior threads on the subject under clothing and footwear tag

You can get a figure 8 winding to run on any detector. The problem with most is that you will have a reverse polarity front to rear - the tones will literally flip with the winding. You see it in various Bigfoot coils made for the XLT and MXT and other machines. Even with PI detectors running the old Coiltek Salt Compensation coils, which were simply figure 8 windings. Not only great on salt but very near immune to EMI and renamed later to reflect that. The White's DFX was unique in that it was built with Bigfoot in mind and so had built in compensation for the polarity change. An advanced coil builder could probably put a chip in the coil that would do the adjustment in the coil instead of in the detector. The problem is making a VLF figure 8 is a touchy procedure and DeTech went DD just because it is easy to make them.

What are the top half dozen best YouTube channels for good solid information on metal detecting for gold? I'm not looking for a comprehensive list - just the opposite. What do people consider to be the best of the best? The one or two you'd watch if you could watch nothing else? Thanks.

That's been said but it was never true of any Tesoro I owned. I would say that any detector that performs better by being improperly ground balanced is defective or was not engineered properly. It flies in the face of what a ground balance control is meant to do and how it functions.

There is no reason why a pdf upload should not work so you might want to try again George. Interesting detector.

I have the 16" mono and DD both and really don't use either of them, as they ruin the superb ergonomics my making the machine nose heavy. If I was on ground I was pretty sure had a 1 ounce or larger gold nugget I'd run them, but for smaller gold the gain is negligible to none depending on the ground. The DD in particular is quite heavy, but the mono you can run without the coil cover and it's actually lighter at 766g than the 13" DD with cover at 906g, so there is that. 16 DD Coil 948g SC 188g = 1136g (2.504 lbs) 16 Mono 766g SC 188g = 954g (2.103 lbs) 13 DD 750g SC 156g = 906g (1.997 lbs) 13 Mono 598g SC 156g = 754g (1.662 lbs) 11 DD 518g SC 74g = 592g (1.305 lbs) 11 Mono 424g SC 74g = 498g (1.098 lbs) Coil Bolt + Two Rubber Washers = 10g (0.022 lbs) Garrett Axiom 16”, 13”, and 11” search coils, both DD and mono

Every one of your photos is too close to the camera and so out of focus that there is no point in posting them. Look at the images before posting to make sure they are sharp or don't bother. Thanks.