Chase Goldman

Blacksmiths used cast iron ladles and spoons for handling molten lead. Seems small for that, but it's a possibility.

I understand. You may have more luck now dialing Silencer in with V 1.1 because it won’t just go from one extreme to the other in the course of a single step adjustment. Also suggest trying General or Relic because of soil subtraction and perhaps trying Gold Field and seeing what varying Max F does in those modes. I’m stuck detecting Parks and Beaches here until fall because the cellar holes and farm fields with iron pollution are mostly now overgrown with poison ivy/bug infested or planted with crops.

See my response to you in your other post. Don’t get too excited as I am not sure 1.1 will necessarily address the falsing you were experiencing but it will certainly address severe ferrous masking even at high reactivity settings that was plaguing the Sensitive with ver 1.0.

Jeff, Interesting. You were using one of the Programs that were severely affected by the low setting (0, 1, 2) aggressive ver 1.0 Silencer glitch that significantly increased ferrous masking even with high recovery speed settings. So that may have affected your ability to unmask in iron. Conversely, the aggressive silencer setting should have also knocked down the nail falsing more, too. It’s a mixed bag, but I suggest torturing yourself using the same setup but with the ver 1.1 update. Should reduce the masking but you will be subject to the falsing, however, the increase in silencer filter effect (to mitigate falsing) will be more gradual. Might better be a able to find a sweet spot Silencer setting that does not over mask while knocking down the falsing. Also, might want to experiment with the new audio filter in this situation.

Got it. Will log it on the main update thread.

Dan - Thanks for spelling it out. I see it now. It's pretty subtle and even happens simply selecting the equalizer from the shortcut menu (without changing any of the equalizer graphic frequency band settings or turing it off/on). The Default big TID returns when you power cycle the remote and it returns to default settings (or saved Big TID setting if using it on custom modes). Does not happen when accessing any of the other audio settings via the shortcut. To me the Equalizer is kind of a set once and done thing, not something you regularly change on the fly and returning to Big TID is easy with the hot key shortcut, but it is a definite bug so I will log it.

What IS that Mexican Token made out of?

I am a long time, primarily relic detectorist, but I also coin shoot, and beach hunt. My primary detector is the Deus 2 because of its light weight, versatility, and high speed which enables it to handle iron well and it also does well in hot soil. I think the D2 is more machine than you need and has a high price point, so I am not recommending it but do provide links to further information below. If you want to skip all the detail below let me give you the bottom line up front: AT Pro is not really going to give you any more depth or separation in iron versus your MX7. If the AT Pro is your only consideration, I'd stick with the MX7. If you are interested in a fast detector at a reasonable price point I have two recommendations: Minelab Xterra Pro - fast with adjustable recovery speed and multiple selectable single frequencies <$300 Nokta Legend - fast with adjustable recovery speed and multiple selectable single frequencies and simultaneous multifrequency, currently <$400 If you want to stick with with made in the USA - Consider the Garrett Ace Apex multifrequency. Despite the "Ace" vs. "AT" designation, it has some better features and versatility over the AT Pro including selectable frequencies and multi-frequency which may eek out more targets in your situation than your MX7 but is not as good at handling iron or as fast as the previous two detectors I suggest. If you want to do a deeper dive, read on... As others have mentioned: The AT Pro is a classic and despite being first introduced more than 13 years ago, still gets the job done. But the AT Pro has mediocre recovery speed and is probably not noticeably faster than your MX7 nor is it known for being superior in iron. If the AT Pro is your one and only alternative to the MX7 that you are considering, I recommend you stick with the MX7 (yes I owned an AT Pro but eventually sold it). I too owned an MX Sport, your MX7's waterproof sibling. It had great ground handling and a number of interesting features but at the end of the day, I too was disappointed by its just ok recovery and depth. Add to that, above average weight and below average balance resulting in overall below-average ergonomics. Despite being waterproof and having some rudimentary salt balance capabilities, it was still not very stable in wet salt sand, requiring significant lowering of sensitivity for stable salt beach performance. I am not listing all of this to dump on Whites or the MX series (I still own the classic White's classic relic machine - an MXT) but to provide a frame of reference as to why I eventually sold my MX Sport and moved on to a more modern simultaneous multifrequency machine. Specifically, the Equinox 800. Simultaneous multifrequency provides some advantages associated with ground and salt handling, and also enables more versatility in going after targets because the multifrequency capability evens up the "playing field", eliminating the tendency of single frequency machines to favor either higher or lower conductivity targets as lower frequencies tend to favor higher conductive and large targets like silver or coin caches while higher frequencies tend to favor smaller targets or lower conductivity targets like gold jewelry, nickels, and brass. The key with these features is versatility. The recovery speed, decent target identification, good discrimination and ground handling features makes them great at picking through iron. Since the MX7 and AT Pro/AT Max have hit the streets, there have been a number of multifrequency and also capable single frequency detectors that not only have equivalent features but are also lighter, cheaper, and faster with great user interface features and multiple audio options. i suggest considering these detectors in addition to the AT Pro for their speed and iron handling capabilities. If you are interested in exploring these detectors further, I have broken them down for you and for others who may be interested. I recognize that you will not be using your detector at the beach but note when these are fully submersible primarily to show you they can be operated in the rain. The Detector Prospector Metal Detector Database pages provide detailed information on several detectors released over the past several years. The following breakdown of relatively recent design detectors with significant versatility, performance, and features versus your MX7 (all have built-in wireless audio capability but also speakers) can be explored further by clicking on the detector name links that will take you to the DP Detector Database writeup: Nokta Simplex - Fully Submersible, Single Frequency Machine <$300 Minelab Xterra Pro - Fully Submersible with multiple selectable single frequencies and variable recovery speed settings. Relatively new, but if you want an inexpensive, fast machine with adjustable recovery speed and 3 selectable frequencies, this is a great choice. <$300 Nokta Legend - Fully Submersible Simultaneous Multifrequency Machine and Multiple Selectable Frequencies, has adjustable recovery speed, multiple default search modes set up for park, beach, relic, and gold detecting. Features on par with the Equinox detectos at an amazing price <$400 (Note, first generation design of the Legend is going for~$388 as they start to introduce a lighter weight carbon fiber shaft system which will probably be greater that $400) Garrett Ace Apex - Lightweight, weatherproof Multifrequency Machine with Multiple Selectable Frequencies <$500 Not known for being superior in iron however. Greater than $500 - All of these machines have great iron handling capabilities. Minelab Equinox 600/800 - These fully submersible simultaneous frequency and selectable single frequency detectors have been here for more that 5 years now, were groundbrekaing in terms of but still perform. Their price is coming down with the release of the Minelab 700/900 below. Minelab Equinox 700/900 - Update of the popular Equinox 600/800. XP Deus and XP Orx - Fully wireless with multiple selectable frequencies and high recovery speed that is adjustable. Super light weight. Greater than $1000 - XP machines are know for their best in class iron handling performance. XP Deus 2 and Minelab Manticore HTH and Good Luck and Happy Hunting with whatever machine you finally end up with.

Go to the Deus II subforum and you will see numerous reports from those who have downloaded 1.0 and 1.1.

Not seeing any issues with Big TID, Audio/Equalizer, or Frequency Scan hot keys AT ALL! You have posted this several times without adequately describing the issue you are seeing. It's like trying to decipher some sort of riddle to be honest. Please describe the issue in detail so others can attempt to replicate it and verify what you are seeing. Thanks.

Can you please specifically describe the issue you are seeing. I have seen no anomalous behavior when using the the double-hot-key shortcut to switch between the big and the normal TID display and it does so without inadvertently activating the audio shortcut options. The audio hot key properly enables volume control on all outputs and access to the equalizer without issue. Similarly, the frequency scan hot key works without issue.

Just to be clear, if you’re just talking Silencer behavior (and the “glitch” introduced by Ver 1.0), correct, the Beach Programs were and are unaffected because their min Silencer settings were not changed by ver 1.0 or 1.1. But obviously all the Beach programs can use the applicable Ver 1.X the enhancements to Full Tones, Expanded Silencer Range, Expanded Iron Volume Range, and Max F adjustments as well as Hi Square and the new Audio Filter Adjustment.

Yep. Something is going on.

Good question, I’ll put that on the list. On Deus 1, Silencer was not off unless you set it to -1.

Nice finds. I take it that you attempted a frequency shift noise cancel to no avail before resorting to lowering sensitivity.

I added this issue to the Deus V 1.0 consolidated issues thread:

Added this to my consolidated Ver 1 issues and assessment thread here. This Lock Up bug has been reported a couple times. Thanks

I get what you're saying and thanks for posting your assessment of Hi Square. But that just confirms why I'll just stick with PCM. Just so used to the "annoying" PCM audio since I started using Deus nearly 10 years ago. If I want it to sound nice, I'll use a Minelab, Garrett, or listen to music. If I want actual audio information about the target via the harmonics, I gotta use PCM. You can dress up PCM audio to an extent using square or hi-square which limits the "unpleasant" sounding PCM harmonics, then you are going to also naturally lose audio target information that you get with PCM, because it's those harmonics that clue you in to likely junk targets. Metal detecting involves swinging over random pieces of metal in the ground, not conducting an orchestra. So it's never going to sound like a symphony unless you dig the sweet PCM sonar echo sound of rings, buttons, and coins (symmetric/round targets) at a honey hole site.

The iron volume range was increased from 0 to 5 in ver 0.71 to 0 to 10 in ver. 1.0. So if you were using an old custom program iron volume setting (e.g., 3 out 5 for ver 0.71), you would have to increase the setting to at least 6 (out of 10) to get an equivalent iron volume level in Ver 1.0. The Ver 1.0 Factory Preset Program default settings for iron volume have been adjusted up to account for this range change. If you want threshold dropouts for iron targets instead of iron volume, you can set up a notch segment that covers all or part of the iron range (say from -6.4 to 8 or -6.4 to 0). Any target that falls in that notch segment will null the threshold. Using Relic or Gold Field works best for this, but you can use it on any program as long as you invoke Pitch tones audio to activate the threshold. I have only done this Notch “trick” with Relic mode, so I am not sure how it would work in conjunction with Discrimination based programs such as General (e.g, if you set Disc at 8 and invoked a Notch from -6.4 to 8 on top of it). HTH

I have started a DP XP Deus 2 Version 1.0 thread to centrally collect findings and assessments of version 1.0:

Summary of Issues/Observations Identified Since Public Release of Ver 1.0: Ver 1.0 Silencer Filter Response appears to be more aggressive at the 0, 1, and 2 levels (and above) and step increases in silencer settings appear coarser than the equivalent settings in Ver 0.71 adversely affecting 3-D ferrous/non-ferrous target separation and causing masking even at high reactivity levels. See questions in next section regarding whether the Silencer filter is disabled when set to “0” or was changed from ver 0.71. (Addressed in the Ver 1.1 Update to restore Silencer behavior at levels 0, 1, and 2 to Ver 0.71, Note that Program 3 - Sensi FT retains the aggressive low level Silencer Settings introduced in Ver 1.0) Ver 1.0 Audio Response appears to be amplified over the equivalent settings in Ver 0.71. Deus 2 Micro/Sub-gram gold performance of D2 in gold field mode still significantly lags Deus/Orx Gold Field performance. XP should consider providing a selectable single/mono-frequency Gold Mode factory program in a future update. Enabling mono-frequency adjustments above the current Program 7 max of 45 kHz, perhaps in conjunction with a D2 small, elliptical high frequency coil (see more on that below). Bug (ver 0.71, ver 1.0, ver 1.1) - If the Big TID Display option has been invoked in any mode, accessing the Equalizer from the Audio hot key shortcut (long press of "+" key and then pressing the middle "^" key reverts the display to normal sized horseshoe screen. Big TID can be recovered using the Big TID hot keys (pressing and holding the "+" and the right hand "^" keys at the same time. This does not happen if any of the other audio options are selected or adjusted from the shortcut and if Big TID is your saved default display mode (such as in the ver 1.X General Program), it will return on a power cycle. Anomalous Clock operation appears to still be an issue. XP Needs to update the User Guide to address increased coil battery drain at lower Max F settings. Possible Bug: Remote parameter adjustment locks up after frequency scan or Sensitivity, Reactivity, or other parameter change, requiring a power cycle reboot of the remote. (Potentially Addressed in Ver 1.1 Update to restore Silencer behavior at levels 0, 1, and 2 to Ver 0.71) Odd Behavoir: If you go directly to bone phones as the audio output device, you can only select Square. Go to another audio device, change it to HiSquare and then back to bone phones, and it will then say HiSquare which can’t be changed directly back to Square unless you repeat the audio output switch procedure again. Switching a another device to PCM and switching back to bone phones audio is ignored by the bone phones output. It is difficult to tell if the audio is Square or HiSquare when it says HiSquare. (New: Added 6/29/23) Update issues: Various reports of WS6 lockups (requiring battery drain resets) or puck bricks during the update process or during version rollback. (Potentially Addressed in Ver 1.1 Update to restore Silencer behavior at levels 0, 1, and 2 to Ver 0.71) Questions: Is the only difference between FMF profiles used in the base factory programs the Max F setting and whether FMF uses Frequency Addition or Conductive Soil Subtraction or are there other Min F or frequency combination or signal processing differences? Put another way, do similar programs that utilize Frequency Addition or Conductive Soil Subtraction behave the exactly the same if set up with the exact same Max F and other user adjustable settings? Examples include Dive, Beach, and Beach Sensitive at the same Max F or Sensitive/Sensitive FT/Fast and Park and Deep HC at the same Max F and all other parameters adjusted equivalently. This is important information for users trying to determine the most appropriate base program to use for developing custom user program profiles. Is the Silencer filter disabled when set to “0”? If not, was Silencer at Level 0 modified from ver 0.71? (Answer to second question is yes, but ver 0.71 behavior at Silencer = 0 was restored in the ver 1.1 update except Program 3 - Sensi FT which retains the Ver 1.0 aggressive low level Silencer filter) Were Ver 1.0 non-ferrous ID ranges/segments (especially high conductivity TIDs) adjusted vs. Ver 0.71? When will the Go Terrain App be available in all geographic regions? Will it be possible in the future to delete some of the redundant factory programs to enable more custom user program slots? Ability to apply updates and reload/re-program custom user programs via a mobile device or PC interface as an alternative to programming via tge remote’s limited interface would be a welcome new feature. Expanding the number of Characters that can be used for naming custom user programs would also be welcome. Is a D2 compatible small elliptical coil (or enabling existing HF elliptical coil compatibility with D2) on the table (even if it is not-dive rated) or is that just out of the question as far as XP is concerned? A lot of prospective and existing D2 users have expressed a desire for this popular coil form factor for D2.

Updated to Reflect the Ver 2.0 Update released 5 September 2023 Updated to Reflect the Ver 1.1 Update released on 25 May 2023. This thread is an attempt to consolidate dispassionate, factual, and unbiased (pro or con) observations and impressions on the XP Deus 2 Ver 1.1 Update. If you have been plugged into the posts here related to this update, it is obvious that it’s definitely a glass partially full, partially empty thing depending on your perspective and how the changes, for better or for worse, affect the way you each use your Deus 2. People who focus solely on specific types of detecting or specific site conditions with their Deus 2 (e.g., beach and water hunters vs. park coin shooters vs. hot dirt relic hunters vs. gold prospectors vs. those detecting in highly iron or aluminum polluted sites) will each have different reactions to this update be it elation to ho hum to bitter disappointment. And just to be clear, it’s apparent things have changed beyond the obvious added features touted by XP, no denying that. Also, it’s apparent that long time, identified issues that have existed before even ver 0.71 was released have still not been addressed (e.g., micro gold sensitivity, the clock, high target ID compression). What’s not clear at this stage is the impact (net positive or negative) of the “unexpected” changes and whether the omissions are intentional because XP hasn’t figured out the fix or have it prioritized for a subsequent update. My point is, the forum community is better served, at this point, by level headed assessments and exchanges of factual information and observations. Information that can be usefully disseminated amongst Deus 2 users, rather than knee jerk, emotional, and/or over the top proclamations (good or bad) that just stir the pot or satisfy people’s hidden agendas. That type of commentary does little to help Deus users nor does it help XP get the useful feedback needed to enable addressing improvements in a timely manner. So if you can’t help being significantly biased or hyperbolic in your commentary either because you are an unapologetic XP FanBoy or a perpetual XP basher, please just sit this one out. Also, this is a reminder that Gary Black @Gary XP is a member of DP and drops in to monitor and exchange information with existing and prospective Deus 2 users so if we can keep the discourse civil and to the point, Gary can be a useful resource to shed additional light on what changed with ver 1.0 and a direct conduit back to XP regarding our Ver 1.0 experiences, good and bad, and what else we might like to see that was perhaps broken by or not addressed in Ver 1.0. Have at it. Also, here are links to some useful official information and videos related to the update. Also, @F350Platinum discovered that there are Ver 2.0 variants with different time stamps (XP's strict adherence to SW version configuration control methods (not) apparently strikes again). If you upgraded to V2.0 the day it was released or on or before 9/26/23, check your version time stamp (Option/Settings/Infos) to make sure you have the latest 9/26/23 version. More info in this post. Version 2.0 Update Link Addresses compatibility with the new XP Xtrem Hunter Two-Box Coil Improves Goldfield small gold sensitivity (verified in air tests conducted by @Jeff McClendon) Enables the Audio Equalizer to work with the XP wired, bone-conduction "Bone Phones" V1.1 UPDATE XP would like to express its gratitude to all users for providing valuable feedback following the release of version 1.0. We appreciate your input, and based on your feedback, we are pleased to introduce version 1.1: Bug Fixes: We have successfully resolved the issue of remote control rebooting or WS6 freezing in very rare configurations. Other Improvements: The FE.TID (Ferrous Target display) setting is now enabled by default. If you prefer not to display ferrous target IDs, you can turn off the FE.TID setting. We have made corrections to the SILENCER function in programs P1, P2, P4, P5, and P6. Now, Silencer levels 0, 1, and 2 provide the same rejection as in V0.71, while higher levels from 3 offer better iron rejection. The program 3 SENSI FT uses different Silencer close to V1.0. Notes : - Previous versions 0.6, 0.71, and 1.0 are still available online and accessible thanks to the new updater. - All other new functions and improvements introduced in V1.0, such as Audio Filter, Freq Max, HiSquare audio, Fulltones Offset, fast TID, etc., remain unchanged in V1.1. We encourage you to read detailed information about these features in the documentation below and watch the video by Gary Blackwell. Additionally, we strongly recommend watching the tutorial video below titled "Update Procedure" to guide you through the update process. Thank you once again for your valuable feedback and continuous support! The XP team What's new in Version 1.0: FULL TONES (DISCRI > EXPERT) DISCRIMINATION=TONE BREAK Values below the discrimination level, such as the ground and iron, are now audible without having to lower the discrimination to -6.4. The discrimination setting acts as a "tone break," and the Iron Volume setting adjusts the volume of ground and iron below the discrimination level. OFFSET-FT (FULLTONES > EXPERT) Shifts the audio frequency to the high tone of the first targets with a signature just above the Discrimination level, in order to easily differentiate them audibly from iron: 0=disabled OFFSET. 5=default setting allowing a first level of offset to the high tone of the first non-ferrous targets. 10=more pronounced offset. 40 (max) = all targets above the discrimination level will produce the same high-pitched sound. Full Tones -TONE VOLUME (FULLTONES > EXPERT) Configures the tone breaks and volume levels of 5 conductivity ranges of the Full Tones in order to prioritize certain target ranges. TONE VOLUME (MENU > DISCRI > EXPERT > TONES > EXPERT) Adjusts the individual volume of each tone on 11 levels to attenuate certain target ranges and prioritize others. FREQUENCY MAX (MENU > FREQ MAX) Limits the maximum high frequency used in the multifrequency spectrum FMF to 40kHz, 24kHz or 14kHz for each program. Reducing the Max Frequency improves ground stability and iron discrimination. This also reduces sensitivity to weak conductors (T.ID 25-50) and the ability to accept coins mixed with nails or heavily mineralized soil. For example, program 1 GENERAL coupled with a Max Frequency of 14khz (4-14khz spectrum) is more suitable for locating high conductive targets (silver coins) through aluminum foil, compared to the default band up to 40khz. Note: The frequency shift and auto frequency scan have been moved to the Max Frequency sub-menu. AUDIO FILTER (OPTION > AUDIO) Cleans up the audio and sounds smoother, less instability, particularly at depth, choosing the correct Audio Filter for your search area can gain a few extra centimeters of performance. On clean beaches or clean open ground, higher levels from 2 to 5 will be interesting. In polluted iron environments, lower levels from 0 to 2 will retain enough nuances in the iron feedback to better recognize Ferrous and Non-Ferrous targets. At 0, this audio filter is disabled. HI-SQUARE AUDIO TYPE (OPTION > AUDIO > AUDIO TYPE) This new audio type has a richer and clearer harmonic content than the SQUARE Audio Type and can very often help identify deep quiet targets. In Pitch mode, strong targets close to the coil will be less sharp and softened compared to SQUARE, in order to better identify deep targets without saturating your hearing with close and strong signals. FASTER T.ID The target ID (T.ID) display now updates faster, so that the ID of a ferrous target does not linger on a non-ferrous target. Also, adjust the FE T.ID setting to OFF to favor the display of non-ferrous targets. FE T.ID (OPTION > CONFIG > ON/OFF) FE T.ID = ON: Displays the ID of ferrous targets. FE T.ID = OFF: Will not display the ID of ferrous targets but only targets with an ID value higher than the discrimination setting (even if you keep the Iron Volume). In iron-polluted environments, set FE T.ID to OFF to focus on the display of non-ferrous targets. SILENCER (DISCRI > EXPERT) Now more effective and staggered with 8 levels from 0 to 7. With the silencer set to levels 2-3, difficult ferrous targets displaying a high ID and generating high-pitched tones will be better eliminated. If you want to further improve the discrimination of ferrous targets, consider: - Increasing the Silencer to 3, 4, 5... - Increasing the discrimination level to 8-10. - Use the B.caps reject (rejecting ferrous and large iron capsules) - Reducing the Max Frequency to 24 or 14kHz OTHER Program 1-GENERAL Program 1-General now uses 2 tones and the Big T.ID display mode as default. Its reactivity is slightly reduced from 2.5 to 2 to offer you more performance in general use on less polluted ground. Multi Notch and Ground menu is now available on the WS6 The Multi-Notch as well as the Ground menu with its all-metal mode are now present on the WS6 Master.

Congrats. Glad you finally got it downloaded and thanks for getting back to us to let us know.

Click on the videos posted by Zord earlier and you will get an idea. Basically folks are complaining that going from a 1 to 2 setting on silencer will result in significant masking of mid-conductive, non-ferrous targets co-located with nails in the same plane and above the target in the direction of swing negating fast reactivity settings. Silencer appears on the surface to be a lot more aggressive than the same silencer setting on ver 0.71. I postulated that it was XP's aggressive response to iron falsing complaints with ver 0.71. To be fair, Silencer range of adjustment was expanded to 7 from 5. With a larger range of adjustment, people are understandably thinking that would also translate into a more gradual increase in filtering effects as you make step change increases in the silencer filter vs. what is being observed. I think some time is needed to fully vet these changes before making knee jerk hyperbolic claims of unsuitability of this release. There may indeed be needed near-termtweaks to ver 1.0 at the end of the day, but let's get through the growing pains and see what shakes out to be real show stopper issues. So far I haven't seen anything that is a serious flaw or that can't be worked around.

Ever since Deus 1, I basically stayed away from heavy use of silencer and relied on other methods and tells for falsing iron. As far as I was concerned, with or without silencer. Deus 2 still handled thick iron environments very well.