Chase Goldman

Doc - I totally get that you can’t do one offs and I understand how the Digital Camo can work in the desert. I probably just need to see it first hand rather than deciding purely based on the prototype pic. Really like the design of the control head cover and shade and the base pad. I have the Axiom and it took a cosmetic beating in some rough terrain and red clay mud and in the back of the truck bed with my other buddies’ gear, so the cover set makes sense to me functionally to protect my investment. There’s always fabric paint as an after sale option too. Like I said, it’s not about style, I just generally avoid camo for practical reasons and stick to drab solids (gray, coyote, green, or black) or blaze orange outerwear if needed for safety. Will be looking for the release announcement once you get inventory and will decide. Thanks

Gotcha. If you want to go silent, you can also use disc but with iron volume set to zero. Don’t think it matters much either way, though and notch doesn’t require the extra iron volume adjustment step. Sometimes disc helps with ferrous down averaging which can help with unmasking, but as you observed, it doesn’t seem to matter or help with Beach sens. I will have to experiment with notch vs. disc at the beach.

So are you now using notch vice disc on your Beach Sensitive program? Was the masking issue was less evident with notch vice disk?

Well they certainly should if they want to now directly compete with X-Terra Pro.

My experience mirrors your own regarding no one detector doing it all. However, my experience diverges from yours in this respect. Legend and Nox 900 do not have TID stability anywhere near that of the Deus 2 at depth in my experience - but that is primarily in mild soil, so my soil conditions are different than yours. I have corroborated my experience with D2 rock solid ID stability with at least two other DP members here. If I am detecting in hot ground - then I am generally just pulling out my PI which is now the Axiom and also this is for relics (not natural gold). If I am switching up from a PI under those circumstances , then it will be the Deus 2, but that is primarily because the D2 is always strapped to my back if I am using a PI, not because i have exhaustively proved it is deeper or more stable than the Legend or Nox 800/900 in hot soil. So I get where you are coming from on the Deus 2 and Legend comparison based on your specific environment and your objectives and don't refute your first hand observations. My circumstances are just different and I have less A to B to C comparisons of Nox, D2 and Legend in hot soil. I would like to do more experimentation and get more proficiency with Legend, but to be frank, my access to prime sites is limited and I need to make the most productive use of the few hours of access I do get, rather than running science experiments. Bottom line, is that D2 is giving me that confidence right now, so I am just pulling it or the Axiom out even with access to the Nox's and Legend. So it really comes down to whether Manticore with the right selection of coils brings anything more to the table than D2 (or Nox, or Legend) do for me right now. Or whether I should instead focus solely on Legend proficiency, bypass Manticore, and let my old Nox 800 be the only viable ML backup-to-a-backup machine in my arsenal. Right now, as far as the Beach goes, I could be happy with D2 or the Nox 800, could probably get to yes with the Legend, and have no doubt the Manticore could get it done and might be fun to boot. Really need to have the Manticore small coil available to complete this assessment.

Gotcha- btw what "new update" are you referring to? Has one been announced or is it known to be in testing? What's going to be in it?

Speaking of SSF and detector frequency selection and mode capabilities…. Detecting manufacturers are all over the map on terminology conventions primarily to promote marketing “one upsmanship” and because there are no hard and fast rules on the definitions of single frequency and multiple frequency as they relate to classifying detectors. The naming conventions just tend to confuse everyone. Especially since the more popular and generally more capable and versatile detectors of late typically incorporate both simultaneous multifrequency (SMF) and single frequency (SF) mode capabilities, typically with the latter being “selectable” (hence “selectable single frequency” or “SSF”). Using the term Multifrequency or MF to refer to a “type” or “class” of detector rather than a “mode” is just too ambiguous. In my mind, MF is generally most associated with SMF detectors vice SF detectors that have the capability to select from multiple single frequencies, so I avoid it even when referring to SF detectors that have multiple selectable single frequency capabilities (e.g., Deus 1). If you want to get even deeper into the weeds, you can argue about whether SMF detectors are actually “simultaneous” MF or “sequential” MF. So I try to limit use the term Multifrequency or Multi-Frequency or MF solely to referring to a detector’s operating mode. All that being said, that didn’t stop Nokta from referring to some of their SSF only detectors as “Multi” (e.g., the Mukti Kruzer) - its all primarily marketing driven use of terminology that can cause the buyer who doesn’t understand or deep dive the specs to be confused and think they are getting more features than what they are actually getting. Regardless, since there is no real standardization, the best you can do to avoid confusion, ambiguity and to keep people on the same page is to repeatedly define your terms as Digalicious did above to keep people on the same page or simply refer to the subject detector(s) directly by name or model number. To keep it straight in my head, I look at the operating mode capabilities of detector to generally classify them as follows (examples of some of the most popular or notable recent models that fall into my categories provided - not an exhaustive list): I consider both classes of detectors above as SF detectors in general as they only have SF mode capabilities and have no MF/SMF mode capability. Single Frequency - Simplex, most First Texas VLF detectors still in production, Garrett ACE and AT series (except Apex). Selectable Single Frequency - Deus 1, Multi Kruzer, Impact, Anfibio, Tarsacci MDT 8000, X-Terra Pro, Quest Q35, I consider the detector classes below as SMF even if some of them have both SF and MF/SMF mode capabilities. Simultaneous Multi-Frequency (SMF only) - Vanquish, Excalibur II, CTX 3030 Simultaneous Multi-Frequency (with Selectable Single Frequency (SSF) modes) - Nox, Apex, Deus 2, Legend, Manticore, Quest V60/80. Note: I am not aware of any SMF detectors that only have one single frequency mode. I wish Vanquish had at least one single frequency selection (as well as adjustable ground balance) as it would make a slightly more versatile value detector in the ML lineup. Alternatively, if ML added a single SMF mode (e.g., Beach or Park) to the X-Terra Pro without significant impact to price point, that would basically make the Vanquish irrelevant and blur the line on value-priced SSF and SMF detectors while accomplishing the same thing. But we are talking razor thin profit margins at the lower end and I would understand why ML or even Nokta are adverse to slicing up the low end further by adding features that drive profits down further and potentially shunt sales away from the higher end models. But this is a Nokta Forum and the Topic specifically is Simplex… I was hoping that’s what this most recent quick revamp was going to do, but it looks like they just went with the 15 kHz frequency change, Bluetooth on the 2 higher end variants (which basically obsoletes the Nokta pulse dive as a compatible wireless pinpointer option) and the additional tone and mode options on the Simplex Ultra. Now that they’ve set the price point for Ultra in the ballpark of Legend, doubt they will revamp it again for selectable frequencies as that will just drive the price up even closer to Legend so folks would probably just opt for Legend at that point IMO.

Manticore the competition? Sorry you lost me. What am I missing?

Happy Father's Day Chuck!

Except you get to pay $500 more than Nox for the privilege of doing so, but dumping the D2 takes care of that cost gap and then some, I suppose. I'm of a similar mind. To me the 900 looked great on paper, appearing to address all the known flaws of the 800, however, the introduction of TID stability issues associated with the 900 TID range change and continuing issues with EMI susceptibility have soured me on the 900. Especially when I compare the 900 with the rock solid TIDs on the D2 and when I find that I can't calm the 900 down in fields where I don't even here a blip out of the D2. Yes, I consider the anecdotal better target depth performance and improved EMI of the Manticore vs. the 900 and the additional features of the Manticore that can compensate for the TID stability issues (i.e., target trace and ferrous limits adjustments) compelling enough to dump the 900 for the Manticore. But I am in no way shape or form selling the D2 to do so. Especially with my athritis addled, aching right shoulder. But somehow they had enough bandwidth to refresh the Nox, upgrade the Nox coil ear design, release the 700/900, and also the X-Terra Pro shortly after that with two new coil form factors available upon release of the Xterra all right on the heels of the Manticore launch. Sounds like they need to re-rack their priorities a little so they can deliver on their promises. They announced the Manticore accessory coils the same day they announced Manticore. I am sure people bought into the Manticore because of the promise of being able to get their hands on the advertised accessory coils presumably within a reasonable time frame. It really almost comes off as a display of contempt for their customer base - i.e., prioritize the big money detectors over the small-change coils (though profit margins are likely bigger). Reminds me of the lack of transparency that occurred in the wake of the Nox submergence failures...we never got a straight story or acknowledgement of a design or manufacturing flaw - just the bare minimum - honoring warranty repair, no questions asked and with no answers other than finger pointing at third-party shafts and accessories. It's all pretty disappointing. C'mon ML - show a little after sales respect for your customer base throw us a bone by getting those Manti coils on the street with some reasonable pricing. Throw a Nox 900/Manticore wireless receiver out their too so we can have a little variety on untethered 3rd party audio gear. ... And word on the timing of any forthcoming firmware update would also be welcome.

Remind me again, the Tek Patriot is the clone of which 15-year-old Fisher detector design? F70, right?

Chuck - are you following the gist of this thread? There is not going to be any next shipment or V80 stock in the US as Quest has decided not to sell them on US soil.

Great detective work. I really hope you're wrong, but fear you're right. I can live with this if ML puts out some kind of compatible, but affordable (I know, don't laugh) receiver (a la the Nox WM08) that facilitates untethered use of 3rd party wired phones/earbuds. I really hate using a kludged up APTX LL dongle setup just so I can use wireless earbuds with my Nox 900. On the other hand, I am not understanding why it is taking the consumer audio electronics manufacturers so long to get BT LE LC3 compatible audio devices on the market...

Hey, spout off somewhere else. This forum is for ML and Manticore lovers only! Not XP interlopers posing as ML malcontents just so they can get an XP mention over here... It IS ridiculous, but believe it or not, ML are still just within the release window timeline of the Nox 6" coil release which didn't happen until 7 months after Nox release in Jan 2018 (i.e., July 2018). If December 2022 counts as the Manticore release month, then they have until the end of June to release the small coil for ML accessory coil business as usual timeliness. But, like you said, ML "business as usual" is just bad business or at least dumb business. Maybe they should spend less time on litigation and more time on customer communication and coordinated product accessory releases. SMH.

Garrett does this with the Axiom today, which starts at $2000 less than the GPX 6000 in the US, but unfortunately, that price delta does not exist in Australia where ML is king from a price perspective. Nokta might even have a tough time challenging ML price wise with a PI on ML’s home turf.

Hadn't heard that. Purely a "business" decision from what I can tell.

Frankly, if you made the cover blaze orange that would almost be functionally more useful to me than camo as my relic detecting activities sometimes overlap with local hunting seasons and I have to take precautions. Agreed. Not a hell of a lot of difference. Just a personal preference as I am just a drab solids guy. I don't try to make some kind of style statement with my gear, so I avoid camo because it serves no useful functional purpose while detecting and can give some property owners the wrong impression that I'm into stealth detecting or nighthawking. I'm will don blaze orange if needed for safety. I'm not a prospector, but I do relic detect often in wooded areas and sometimes hunker down and dig pits where CW encampments existed. This is often a drawn out process and sometimes requires that I trek back forth to my vehicle for one thing or another. So I leave the detector where it is if I plan on returning rather than lugging it back and forth. Camo doesn't help in that regard, but I can easily deal with it, if needed, as you so thoughtfully pointed out. For what its worth, I've purchased a number of Docs GPX accessories over the years including two Screamer modules, and various swing assist products for relic detecting not prospecting. Love them functionally and also loved their understated looks. Glad the digital camo has juiced sales for you, Doc. Just not my cup of tea. I understand you have to pick one design and go with it in this situation. Therefore, there's no way you can please all the people all the time. So I'll probably be missing out on the fun this time around. My loss. Happy Hunting and good luck on the new product launches. 👍

Dain - Kind of a moot point now, but you also never mentioned the coil size (presuming you have the standard US kit where the smaller coil is the Mono in your case) or whether the issue manifested with both of the supplied coils unless the target was too small to be sensed by the larger DD. That could further point to whether the problem is the detector or the coil. Whatever the case, Garrett has it now and should take care of it, so definitely let us know how it gets resolved.

You only need to ensure the power is off when you exchange coils. You may have to readjust sensitivity, ground balance and timings with the new coil but a factory reset is not required.

Simon - I edited my post to note that Detech currently makes accessory coils for Simplex+ but not Legend. Don’t know if that portends whether Detech which makes coils for the Quest Q series will have the permission or ability to make coils for the V series. Guess we’ll find out.

Not really “bad” as far as I’m concerned, the 6”, 10x5”, 11” and 12x15” cover all my bases quite nicely. Not really wanting for anything beyond that and have no use for the other two Coiltek “boat anchors”. And despite the lack of 3rd party support for Legend, at least Nokta has similarly covered the bases with 6 different coils for Legend, so really not wanting for coils there either. So if Detech comes through with an SMF compatible coil series for the V60/80 that would be great. Note that the addition of the inertial motion sensor in the OEM V series coils would be an additional minor complexity/compatibility factor that has to be taken into consideration by Detech. I will also note FWIW that Detech makes several accessory coils for Simplex (different sized “Ultimate” coils and the “Arrow”) yet nothing for the Legend, so…it doesn’t necessarily follow that Detech will make coils for the V60/80 even though they currently make coils for the “Q” series, if that is any indicator. Could have something to do with SMF complexities. Who knows…

Also, it has not actually been confirmed that Quest has decided to not distribute the V series in the US because of an explicit threat of litigation by ML vs. concern regarding future exposure depending on how ML and Nokta’s pending case gets adjudicated. Interesting, I was unaware that Quest explicitly announced third party coil support for the SMF V series. Where can I find that info? The irony is that of the recent SMF detector designs only the Nox has actually been supported with third party accessory coils.

Sort of a relief because of my detector OCD curiosity was willing me to get it just to try out some of its unique features and the higher frequencies than any other of its SMF peer>despite not wanting or needing anything more out of my detectors than what I have right now. Will help in my “quest” to start downsizing as I am convinced Deus 2 and Axiom pretty much cover all the detecting bases for me and Legend makes a great value-based backup. This is also somewhat of a self inflicted wound on these companies’ part - unlike XP - Nokta and Quest did not give themselves many degrees of freedom separation from Minelab’s SMF designs (at one point Quest even called their SMF multifrequency implementation “Simulti-Q” - practically begging ML to engage). That is not to say that ML’s suit against Nokta or a possible suit against Quest has merit, but it does present a plausible case. XP apparently has already been through the litigation mill with ML. They seem undeterred, perhaps that settlement opened up the playing field for XP as ML spent their silver suit bullet on one of the flimsiest technology patent claims I have ever seen. Anyway, we’ll see how this all turns out. The fact is, if someone doesn’t have a case against you and you have a good product that should sell well, you should not let the potential to be sued deter your market ambitions. That just emboldens the bully.

There's now a learning curve on dialing in Audio Filter and Silencer to attempt to optimize better sounding deep non-ferrous while eliminating iron falsing. (highly soil dependent). But that time investment has to matter to each individual. If someone is basically happy with 0.71 (and frankly I was myself), then no need to learn the "new" machine. Totally get that. Going to spend my summer refining 1.1 on the (dry) beach and parks so I'm good to go when my true passion, relic detecting, picks up again in the fall. I like and prefer the spread out TIDs and will also commit that to muscle memory this summer, but basically, when relic hunting, I'm digging everything over 40 (and investigating big iron) regardless of TID.

A forum member tried to get these to pair up but was unsuccessful. You can read about it here. Regarding whether ML is using BT LE LC3 in Manticore, Nox 700/900, and XTerra Pro, well we don't really know if it's going to be compatible with 3rd Party BT LE LC3 Headsets as has been stated previously in this and other threads but we do know the Manticore and Nox 700/900 wireless headsets utilize a system on a chip that was explicitly designed for BT LE LC3 and that ML applied for FCC compliance certification for a BT LE transmitter associated with Manticore.