Chase Goldman

If it doesn’t work in mineralized ground (I have no idea if it will or won’t but as an IB I suspect it won’t) then it is worthless compared to a PI. I love the video btw, can’t wait to find septic tanks and all those deep hammers. Guess I will wait until I see some field tests before I render judgement on its usefulness for me, but I’m honestly not interested in paying over $1500 so I can then bust my butt digging a three foot hole to find a plowshare. I find enough of those at one foot. There just isn’t enough buried hoards in my neck of the woods to justify this and not sure if it is good at finding trash pits or huts, especially in the hot dirt and carpets of nails where most reside around here.

Yeah. It's been too long and I never really mastered the MXS. I saw your MXS thread on VCO and it gave me PTSD.

See my commentary on this above. I was typing it out when you posted, apparently.

To be clear, I would go with General on dry sand ONLY. Although in my opinion, the observed ferrous separation issues are not that big a deal, its not like you are typically detecting in a bed of nails situation on the beach, so I just stick with variants of Beach Sensitive everywhere using pitch audio which is the most reactive and iron volume at the disc breakpoint (I use between 7 to 10 disc, the Beach sensitive "variants" are based on the three different FMF Maximimum frequencies that are available now - see below). If I have my doubts about a ferrous target, I can turn on it or use General as an interrogation program if I am concerned something might actually be masked against a tent stake. I don't lose much sleep over it, but it is a real thing that has been demonstrated. If you are in the wet sand or surf, you really don't have a choice for stability and you need to go with beach or beach sensitive (or Dive if you want to go a little deeper on high conductors). You can go to this thread for more details on what's new with Ver 1.1 (and some of the lingering issues and new quirks) but there are basically four major changes of note: You can now adjust the top end (maximum) FMF frequency for any FMF (XP's version simultaneous multifrequency) program - you pick either 14 khz, 24 khz, or 40 khz. This biases the FMF towards depth and high conductors (14 khz), Middle of the road performance (24 khz), or bias towards micro targets and lower conductors such as gold, brass, or lead (40 khz). Full Tones has been improved to enable iron volume to be used at or below the discrimination breakpoint regardless of the disc setting (it used to only work at disc = 0 or below. A new audio profile has been added called HiSquare - it is sort of a hybrid between Square and PCM. Gives you a little more tonal harmonic distortion to aid in audible target ID but not to the extent of the mosquito tones of PCM. Finally, XP added a 5 level audio filter - increase the setting and you can get more tonal nuance out of non-ferrous targets which can perhaps aid in depth or identifying the harmonic distortion associated with aluminum can slaw and the like. HTH gets you started.

I have the Manticore, but don't have enough time with it to decide whether I'm impressed or disappointed, so having a 3rd choice - I bought a Manticore and am undecided about its performance would be helpful.

I was hoping the MX Sport would be an MXT in a new, waterproof wrapper, but it wasn't to be. Interface and written instructions were non-intuitive compared to the MXT (I like analog knobs), sensitivity had to be cranked down so low on salt beaches for stability I could never really take advantage of its waterproofness (MXT is basically rain resistant, which is fine for relic detecting, never pretended it was a beach detector), and there were performance issues upon release, which necessitated shipment back to Whites. Finally, the plastic battery compartment screw mounts simply cracked when exposed to cold such that I had to send it back across the country AGAIN to Whites (on my dime) to get it fixed under warranty. That was the last straw. Sold it shortly after that. Never had any such issues with my metal clad MXT. So, yeah, there is something to be said for those detectors that are built like a tank and just get the job done.

Never going to give up my MXT or F75 as they are classics with some great finds memories. But frankly, the whizz bang just works, and works well, so they don't see much action unless I'm feeling nostalgic or absolutely need to detect with a concentric coil (because none of my Whizz bangers support those). But again, just never get around to it. If I'm serious and have limited time at a good relic site, mild or hot, the Whizz Bangers are coming out. But if I see a deal I can't refuse on a classic in pristine condition, like a V3i, I might just grab it for the heck of it.

Not much different than XP, ML, Nokta at product release time. I remember because you called out XP for the same behavior with Deus 2 and coils… Like you said then, product release anticipation invariably comes with ”High Anxiety”.

Be careful what you read. Unless Minelab says it explicitly (i.e., it’s explicit in the manual or in update release notes), then it’s all just speculation, even from respected experts who help ML test such as NASA Tom (BTW Note to ML: we shouldn’t have to get information passed down from the mount via Tom or others acting as messengers - just write it down for all of us ML, so we avoid telephone game misinterpretations). ML, as is their custom, has not been very precise explaining how iron bias is implemented and how to properly use it beyond the high level treatment in the manual (vague on the trade offs, such as whether it will cause false iron positives on mixed non-ferrous alloys or targets of small mass, whether 0 is off, depth impact if any, etc.) leaving us to experiment with it. I doubt there is an actual depth impact, more like lessened ability to unmask non-ferrous in the presence of ferrous targets, mitigating recovery speed advantages. From what I can tell, all they did on the 900 was eliminate the old original Fe Iron Bias filter and just went with the F2 IB filter they introduced in the Nox 600/800 3.0 update - but who knows, they’re silent about whether the IB implementation is different between the Nox generations. However, on the 700, now, there is one notable difference than on the 600. Setting IB to 3 on the 600 equates to IB 9 on the 800. With the 700, IB 3 only equates to IB 6. Also, the 700/900 IB defaults are different across modes whereas on the 600/800, F2 was fixed at 2 (600)/ 6 (800) for all modes. Interesting. From the 600/800 Manual: From the 700/900 Manual: See also this discussion:

That definitely has NOT been my experience (Nox 900 as susceptible if not more susceptible to EMI vs. Nox 800) to the point that I am just not using the 900 much. It’s especially chirpy for me in dP which is unfortunate because I was excited about dP for the very reason you cited (eeks out some audible target depth). Glad your 700 appears to be more stable and EMI resilient than my 900. Maybe early production lot issues for me.

Great repair, but never hurts to have a spare just in case you experience a non-repairable failure in the future plus the repair part is likely inexpensive (and easy to ship) and by documenting the shipping issue removes any question in the future if you need to invoke the warranty again that the problem was caused by whatever broke your armrest. Wasn’t your fault it was damaged in shipment.

An analogy would be the Original Equinox software variant of iron bias. Even if you set Iron Bias to Zero, some level of iron bias filtering is still applied. The second gen iron bias on Equinox enabled users to lower the effect further, but still not fully disable it unless you went to single frequency.

This is similar to Deus 1 in Gold Field with the Iron Audio Reject Filter (similar but different than discrimination). Works fine in thick iron in mild soil - it breaks up iron target signals. But if you use it in ferrous mineralized soils like heavy magnetite, then both ferrous and non-ferrous targets get chopped up.

Any updates?

Really? Well a hoax with an actual working prototype that Andy Sabisch spent several months testing is a pretty elaborate ruse and to what end??? What have they to gain by going to all this trouble with little to show for it other than some social media hoopla that might cause a blip in sales of existing Quest products at the cost of their reputation? Is that what you would consider good business sense? By that logic, Nokta and Minelab and XP with significant delays between actual and advertised release dates would be labeled as notorious hoaxsters. No it’s more likely just the usual delays stemming from resolving last minute production line glitches or distribution logistics as per usual. Thought question: Do conspiracy theorists take the time to really think their theories through…with logic?

Yep, I verified the issue/feature/hack (?), Brad. Thanks for pointing it out. If you go directly to bone phones as the audio output device, you can only select Square. Go to another audio device, change it to HiSquare and then back to bone phones, and it’s HiSquare which can’t be changed directly back to Square unless you repeat the audio output switch hack procedure again. Switching another device to PCM and switching back to bone phones audio is ignored by the bone phones output. I only have bone phones, but really can’t tell either if they are in Square or HiSquare audio when it says HiSquare. FWIW. I’m documenting it in my consolidated Ver 1.X update thread.

You're welcome. Do some more research to make sure it checks the boxes (plenty of additional info here and on the web). It's a very capable machine with minimal investment so its hard to go wrong with it. But like any machine you need to really take several hours to learn it. The most important thing is to secure the sites on which you can actually use it. Good luck.

If you take the time to read the first post of this thread it includes detailed information on the new features and bug fixes provided by the update and includes the link CPT_GhostLight re-posted above that provides the instructions on how to install the update. Please start there, and then if you have further questions, post them.

See the link below for a post I put together for another forum member who was considering the AT Pro. Whether you are considering the AT Pro or AT Max, the advice is the same. As mentioned above, the AT Pro and AT Max platforms were game changers back in the day but while they still get it done, they are long in the tooth and are missing some features, such as recovery speed adjustments, that will enable you to better access targets in areas where a lot of junk targets are clustered together (basically the the last frontier where old targets had been previously inaccessible due to limitations in detector processing speed). All the detectors we are talking about have about the same depth capability, but speed and target ID accuracy can help improve your treasure to trash ratio. Check out the post below for additional information on a number of the latest crop of detectors and look for the best bang for your buck and a detector that is versatile enough to tackle different detecting objectives (coin shooting, jewelry, relics, or gold on land, in farm fields, or in fresh or salt water). Many recently released detectors such as the Legend, Equinox, Deus 2, and Manticore have the versatility to tackle all these challenges. But the price range is huge and the older, less versatile detectors such as the AT Max are not really discounted enough to make them necessarily good bargains when you have something like the Legend which was released just last year and has seen several updates released within the pass year to eliminate bugs and add features and at around $500 to $700 depending on the package you choose giving something like the $1600 Manticore a run for its money. Good Luck.

Dave, I was thinking the exact same thing regarding red numbers being toggled on and retaining that setting with rollback with no option to now turn it off. FWIW - Before I updated, I took a screenshot of the firmware version that existed on my Mcore: 5.12.0-3.4.0 I don't know if that matches the rollback version from the updater. Can't access it right now because I don't have my Manticore available.

I think you’re right based on some high initial price estimates we were calculating for Xterra Pro based on conversion rates, so all the caveats apply. But more concerning than price is that many accessories unique to Xterra, Nox 700/900 and Manticore, that have no third party source like wireless headphones, lower rods, and coils that should be available on or shortly after release are simply unobtanium right now (except for the legacy Nox coils). And as a capper, ML has apparently decided to regress from the direction the took with BT wireless audio on Nox, Vanquish, and the GPX 6000 and lock down their wireless audio accessories as proprietary instead of embracing an industry standard protocol going forward - making 3rd party wireless audio accessories like earbuds incompatible unless you want to hang a BT transmitter off your headphone jack. And so far, no word of anything like a standalone wireless receiver to adapt favorite wired phones or buds. It’s all pretty poor form by ML.

No read back further in the thread. There there is a way to roll back to the previous version with the existing installer.

Based on some posted consternation based on the anticipated price point for the Minelab Manticore accessory coils, I thought I would put out some price points for popular Simultaneious Multi-Frequency (SMF) metal detector accessory coils, and coil prices for other popular single frequency, selectable single frequency, SMF and PI detectors, for reference. These are approximate retail prices for new coils (in US $) scraped off the internet and don’t reflect dealer discounts, package deals, or sale specials. Legend LG 28 - 11" Stock - ~$135 LG15 6" Round - ~$120 LG24 9.5x6" - ~$135 LG30 12X9" - ~$150 LG35 14" - ~$170 Nox 6" Round - ~$180 10x5" Elliptical (Coiltek) - ~$235 11" Stock - ~$229 14X9" (Coiltek) - ~$260 15x12" - ~$240 15" Round (Coiltek) - ~$290 Manticore Stock 11" - ~$?? M8 - ~$341 (Pre-release estimate based on currency conversion) M15 - ~$417 (Pre-release estimate based on currency conversion) Deus 2 9" Round - ~$399 11" Round - ~$399 13X11" - ~$399 Other Coils: Fisher "Triangulated Biaxial 12" Coil" for F75 - ~$199 Detech Ultimate 7" (Teknetics and Fisher F75) - ~$130 Detech Ultimate 13" (Teknetics Greek and F75) - ~$180 Detech Arrow (Simplex, Fisher, Teknetics Greek and G2+) - ~$150 - $165 Nel Snake - ~$120 - $130 Minelab XTerra Pro - ~$?? Minelab Vanquish (Multi IQ) - ~$100-$140 (size dependent) Minelab CTX3030 11"/17"(FBS 2) - ~$350/$400 Garrett AT Series Coils - ~$130 - $160 (size size dependent) Garrett Ace Apex Coils - ~$135 - $190 (size dependent) Nokta Simplex+ - ~$110 - $170 (size dependent) Nokta Impact - ~$110 - $230 (size dependent) Nokta Anfibio/Kruzer - ~$110 - $220 (size dependent) Pulse Induction: Garrett Axiom Coils - ~$280 - $320 (size dependent) Minelab Commander 10x5" DD (GPX) - ~$225 Minelab Commander 11" Mono/DD (GPX) - ~$270/250 Minelab Commander 15X12" DD (GPX) - ~$375 Minelab Commander 18" Mono - ~$441 Coiltek GoldenHawk 10x5" Mono (GPX) - ~$420 Coiltek 14" Anti-Interference DD (GPX) - ~$410 Detech 12.5" DD (GPX) - ~$300 Detech 15" Spiral Wound DD (GPX) - ~$425 Detech 15" Ultra Sensing Mono (GPX) - ~$425 Commentary - Legend accessory coils are a great value overall consistent with the detector itself, even compared with single frequency detector accessory coils. The unofficial Manticore accessory coil prices (if they hold) are somewhat consistent with Deus 2, perhaps its most direct competitor, although the Deus 2 coils pricing is complicated by the fact that they are wireless, smart, and, therefore, are self-powered which is not the case with the Manticore coils other than perhaps limited pre-filtering and ID chips. The Coiltek NOX coils demand a slight premium vs. the Minelab OEM Nox coils. The higher end Deus 2 and Manticore accessory coils are priced similar to GPX pulse induction coils.

You can't reinstall it. If it detects you have the latest SW, you are stuck there.

OK. Thanks. Misread that. I'll try to replicate that. Did you have the bone phones plugged in?