Chase Goldman

Fixed a typo, read it again. Basically I am wondering what ML means by the phrase "might overlook" in the context of Equinox 800 target detection vs. Manticore. Also wondering if this also applies in the same way to the Nox 900 which is a little different than the 800 in terms of separation, ID, and tones. To me, it almost comes off as platitudes (learn your machine, its a challenging machine for experts only) and deflection (if we didnt do this it would "overlook" targets like Equinox does) by ML to bide time while they refine the SW. Which begs the question of why is an update needed at all if Manticore is behaving as the designers intended?

Interesting statement by ML from the above: We would expect an experienced MANTICORE user to dig iron more often than with an EQUINOX 800, but over time should also find some targets that an EQUINOX 800 might overlook. The consequence is that the MANTICORE can be a more challenging user experience, and we find that most experienced EQUINOX 800 users need to go through a period of adaption to get the most out of a MANTICORE. Basically ML is saying learn how to use your Manticore before you start complaing about iron falsing and the Manticore will detect targets the Equinox will "overlook". Does that mean targets that won't register either audio or TID in iron on the Nox will be detected by Manticore or is it more nuanced then that?

Well this is the least expensive that popped up using Google. https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwiv7N-z7b3-AhWDErMAHYpDBMkYABAbGgJ5bQ&sig=AOD64_2Lqc86SZkmmmo1CoI3_54mg6enKg&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwj7t9qz7b3-AhXGF1kFHYkTAPg4PBDDDwj5Dw&adurl= But shipping is extra.

If you can give us some specs on the hearing aids' bluetooth parameters (i.e Bluetooth version (4.× or 5.x)), whether the aids are Bluetooth Low Energy (LE) only (which would not be compatible with the Nox 800 at all) and what audio codecs are supported by the hearing aids (e.g., SBC, AAC, APTX, LDAC, etc,) we can better assess compatibility with the 800. If his aids don't support APTX-LL, the latency (audio delay while swinging the coil over the target) may be excessive and render them impractical for use. Also, as Knomad said, it is a bit of a crapshoot even if the specs look compatible. I have a set of BT APTX-LL phones that should pair with the 800 in low latency mode, but they won't even connect with the Nox even though they pair just fine with my phone. Finally, if your friend doesn't like the Minelab wireless phones AND his hearing aids are found to not be compatible with the Nox 800, then there may be alternative third party BT APTX-LL (low latency) headphones or earbuds he may find better suit him than the Minelab Phones which are known to have a muddy sound quality (lack of high frequency definition). Another alternative is the fantastic Avantree Torus low latency (APTX-LL) compatible BT neckband speaker (that provides a near field sound scape that has more privacy and sound definition than the onboard detector speaker and which allows him to still use his hearing aids untethered to the detector). The Torus also has built in earbuds that can be switched on (silencingcthe speaker) for additional privacy and sound fidelity. I rack out a number of these Vanquish/Nox 600&800/Nokta Legend compatible 3rd party BT APTX-LL devices in the post below. HTH

I'm not advocating that you have both (and I never suggested it) BTW, just saying that if I were to trade in the Deus 2, it wouldn't be for a Nox. Just to be clear, similar to Deus 2, Nox 900 has negative numbers also so the TID scale runs from -20 to 99, FWIW. Probably what you meant, but my OCD kicked in. True, but when they are... Besides, I have not seen anything the Nox can do better than the D2 out of iron other than micro gold sensitivity. Though I do miss having the 5x10 coil option (the main reason I'm sticking with the 900 as a backup) but the D2 9" round hasn't really been a hindrance in that regard either after 12 mos of swinging D2. Not trying to change your mind since it appears made up, but just wanted to get those points out there for anyone else considering a similar switch. FWIW. Also, want to make clear, 900 is no slouch. Even though I personally think it falls short when compared to the D2, the 900 is a fantastic detector, a net postive experience versus the legendary 800 (what the 800 could have/should have been) and a great choice if you can only have one detector. Good luck on your final decision and happy hunting.

It's also a great Steely Dan album.

Wow, that was quite the 180 over the course of a week. And just based on a paper and YouTube. Impressive. I have ‘em both. Haven’t used my 800 much since getting the D2. Liked what I saw in terms of the improvements incorporated into the 900 and the fact I could use my 800 coil collection so I got a 900. But reality intervened as there was a loss of ID stability in the 900 compared to the 800 (and certainly compared the Deus 2) as well as more EMI susceptibilty compared to the D2 (a problem the 800 suffered from as well which tended to keep it collecting dust). D2 still handles ferrous better than the 800 and 900 and I have had no issues with D2 target separation when invoking higher reactivity, as needed. If you want TID stability with a 100+ TID scale, stick with the D2. If I was seriously considering trading in the D2 (which I am not) it would be for a Manticore not an Equinox.

The thing is they (Minelab) don’t really think they are in a mess. Despite distributors and dealers grousing or taking their ball and going home, ML are still selling Nox 700 and 900’s, Manticores, and now Xterra Pro’s like hotcakes to the hobbiests and still have a huge PI market share in Africa with the legacy GPX and GPX 6000. The drowning Nox and ML downplaying that issue seems like a faint memory with zero permanent damage to their rep. As long as the detectorists are still buying the latest and greatest ML toy whether they need it or not (see the Xterra Pro pretzel logic on these forums) and are willing to go to the Dark Side to do so while abandoning their long term relationships with dealers so they can get their Manticores off Cabelas because they “just gotta have it right now”, then ML’s Dr. Evil approach is working just fine. Who needs relationships and friends when you can just be rich. Gordon Gecko was right, “Greed is good!” at least as far as ML is concerned. Will there be any long term consequences? Doubtful unless someone comes up with a treasure machine that is truly innovative and not just a clone or iteration of the original Nox. XP is sort of marching to the beat of their own drum to a certain extent, but when it comes down to it, at the heart of things essentially what you have with the Deus 2 is just the alternative to the Manticore. Nokta and Quest are just cloning ML while refining the wheel with bells and whistles and a little price pressure and dealing with lawsuits from…ML. Garrett has made some hay with the Axiom but is falling behind on the hobbiest front. And FT is just lost in the wilderness.

Thanks. Good info. Managed to see this when I logged in to the Quest site and viewed the "Shop" section vice "Products".

Thanks Yeah you were talking Nokta Pulse Dive so I moved on, didn't see you switched over to talk Xpointer. I am not seeing info on the Magic Holster on Quest site and am not sure how you know which Xpointer version you are getting from a given dealer site. Just wish these manufacturers would not not try to get by on using identical product names on different variants. It's annoying.

What's a "Magic Holster" and where is the info on this PP?

If I think about it next time, I will try to take a video, but frankly I would rather detect then take a video of something to try to prove it to someone online. When I need to invoke it, the D2 noise cancellation routine (frequency shift) does noticeably help compared to the Nox 800 and 900 noise cancel which generally seems futile unless I am trying to cancel out another nearby Nox. The fact is, however, the D2 just runs more stable than either of my Nox machines in most environments, as a given. Which means to me that XP took the time to get EMI mitigation right up front in the design rather than forcing the user to resort to in-the-field band-aids like noise cancel.

If I've I learned anything about metal detecting it is that there are no absolutes, your mileage may vary, and it is a constant battle of balancing tradeoffs. The end part of my post was provided to be some hopefully helpful GENERAL advice for ANYONE reading this thread - it's what I do and what works for me may not work for you or others. I don't believe in absolutes or "trap" type loaded rhetorical questions like the one above so I am not going to answer it directly. I was careful to caveat my advice with "If you can avoid...." Only you can decide if the balance of risk (or waste of time) and reward is worth the effort for what might be there. I rarely encounter a site, however, that I want to detect because of its potential that I can't somehow make the detector work despite noise. If you have a better opportunity and can avoid the noise then do so, if you want to detect the site because of the potential payoff despite the noise headache and challenge, then do what you can to mitigate it. Of course, I'm not saying walk away from potential treasure, that is ridiculous. On the other hand, if the detector is just dead weight because it is generating noise, then just carry a shovel and pinpointer around and dig random holes if silver is there, you'd do better than just listening to EMI continuously. It's the same philosophy as trying to exploit a polluted site. You know there are keepers amongst the trash, it just takes patience, a fast machine, some coil control skills and an understanding that you are not going for depth but shallow "in between" keepers. You don't give up, you just dial down sensitivity a little and go slow. Basically, a similar drill to dealing with EMI. I guess I'm missing the context of the "only time I run multi" statement. Why? Because all your sites have EMI? Just trying to understand why you limit the advantages that SMF brings to the game to a very niche situation? Why do you "welcome" ground noise? You lost me on that.

APTX-LL Headphones, Earbuds, and Receiver/Transmitters that work with APTX-LL compatible detectors (ML Vanquish; ML Nox 600/800; Nokta Legend). Note that the Receiver/Transmitters can be plugged into the headphone jacks of many detectors that lack APTX-LL transmitters (including the new ML Xterra Pro; Nox 700/900 and Manticore detectors that use Bluetooth LE with no third party wireless headphones available) so you can use these BT APTX-LL headphones and earbuds with them. Earbuds (note that "true wireless" APTX-LL earbuds and APTX-LL wireless bone conduction phones appear to be unobtanium right now): Legacy Buds style slightly Aukey B80 Phones are available here: https://www.ebay.com/p/12040445991 These are expensive but high quality: https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Aurvana-Trio-Wireless-Noise-Isolating/dp/B0868G7Q4P/ These are reasonably priced and have good audio, I have the silver ones but only green are still available for purchase though they are currently out of stock: https://www.amazon.com/Glazata-Bluetooth-Headphones-Neckbands-Earphones/dp/B08JTVC1JH/ Finally, in budget category there is the following - I have not actually verified that these will pair up in APTX-LL mode with the Nox 800 but they should work based on the explicit APTX-LL specifications listed. I also have no idea on actual sound quality. But at $20 plus a 40% off coupon. It's hard to go wrong with these (pick up a second pair for backup) if they pair up in LL mode AND have half way decent fidelity. https://www.amazon.com/HomeSpot-Bluetooth-Headphones-Qualcomm®-Compatible/dp/B09P4WQRH6?ref_=ast_sto_dp My personal favorite are the following - but they are more bulky because they have a loudspeaker to create a personal sound space near you head without the earbuds, but you can also shift to earbud mode if desired. They have AMAZING audio quality and stereo separation in both loudspeaker mode and bud mode. Note that they are not water resistant and need to be protected from direct water impingement. But that's the beauty of wireless, if its raining, you can hide these under your rain gear easily and they will still work well. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Y56W9XQ Headphones: Paww Dual Sound 2 earbuds. They are APTX-LL and do pair with the Equinox 800 and 600. They are getting hard to find but here's a used set on Ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295567843524 Creative Jam V2's on the Ear Phones - Best Deal for Headphones: New: https://a.co/d/dK8G46h $40 "Renewed" (for half price): https://a.co/d/7AM6o0F $20 Avantree: https://a.co/d/gE1bW4a $130 https://a.co/d/7AM6o0F $90 https://a.co/d/3yfYuvv $70 Ankbit/Lavales (appear to be clones): https://a.co/d/09TWNEd $99 https://a.co/d/4m1KdW2 $99 August: https://a.co/d/29pcgJl $57 MEE: https://a.co/d/feCwWVn $98 Here are some APTX-LL receiver/transmitters: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B84NDTZB/ https://www.amazon.com/YMOO-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Simultaneously-Headphones/dp/B0BBZZXQTL/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B4W40VC/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XLTPTSD/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08G8Q7NXZ/ HTH

Why wait until next gen? XP has done a great job at addressing the issue today AFAIAC. I am able to regularly run the Deus 2 at greater than 90% of max sensitivity with great depth compared to my Nox 800 and 900 that seem to struggle if within visual line of site to known noise sources such as cell/radio towers, transmission lines, Wi-Fi emitters, or even other detectors and pinpointers. So to answer your questions… Yes, I would. Deus 2 seems to deal with it better than any other SMF machine I have used (Nox 800, Nox 900, Legend, Vanquish) but there are still some “grid-connected” houses that challenge even the D2. Just to be clear, EMI encompasses all electromagnetic emitters including WiFi which is just a radio operating at 2.5 and 5 GHz (same frequencies as Cell towers though cell towers have elevated transmitting antennas and powers and Bluetooth audio that transmit at very low powers. Cell phones are somewhere between WiFi routers and cell towers in terms of transmit power and all IT gear, Alexa’s, TVs, Webcams, GoPros, Printers, and even watches have WiFi and/or BT). Then you have high power transmission lines and transformers, other radio frequency emitters (radar, aircraft, terrestrial radio and HDTV transmitters, and satellite commas), electric cattle and dog fences, fluorescent lights, LED power converters, cracked insulation in power boxes, internal combustion engines with alternators and rotating generators, electric vehicles (including e-bikes!) with static electronic motor drives, and even transient natural emitters such as lightning, cosmic rays, and solar flares. Manufacturers can deal with this issue by providing sufficient shielding but the issue is complex. How is the EMI manifesting itself? What type and how is it getting into the detector (i.e., via the coil or via the control box)? (A myriad of different problems with different mitigations/solutions). The mitigations are generally limited by manufacturing cost (providing sufficient shielding) and environmental variables vice technical capability. If a manufacturer is relying solely on an operating frequency shift as a band-aid mitigation, that is woefully inadequate. Furthermore, the issue is exacerbated by the fact that these are sensitive instruments working at sensing micro watts and in a world that is spewing EMI from megawatt sources in many cases. That’s a 1x 10^12 range (a 1 with 12 zeros after it). Not to mention that the detector’s microprocessor electronics self generates EMI that has to be dealt with just like it has to deal with your nearby phone, GMRS radio or GoPro. And if it is a simultaneous multifrequency detector, you must let in a wider bandwidth of The FCC and similar international governing organizations actually try to combat the issue by limiting consumer and industrial users to stringent EMI emissions limits. If manufacturers actually follow those refs and guidelines (beyond just the certification testing) then EMI is greatly mitigated. I suspect the issue is that a lot of shady stuff goes on and bypasses the regulatory certifications resulting in a lot of spurious EMI that is hard to mitigate. It is, but at some point the cure can also mitigate detector performance somewhat, and then there is the R&D investment (huge testing time and cost sink) and the recurring manufacturing cost of implenting physical shielding mitigations. At some point, for a non-safety critical consumer device, it may just not be worth the trip to go above and beyond FCC or CE certification requirements as far as the manufacturers are concerned. So, how do you work with what the manufacturers give you? Here's my approach with a simultaneous multifrequency machine. My basic philosophy is not maximize depth to the extent practical, but to take the depth you get by maximizing signal to noise ratio to the extent practical. 1) If you can avoid EMI laden sites, do so or at least stay as far away as possible from the visible sources of noise such as cell towers or other antennas, transmission lines, electric fences, transformers, motors (e.g., a well or water pump house), or "grid-connected" structures that may have power and wifi. 2) Run the manufacturer's noise cancel routine, which is just a quiet channel frequency scan. If you have near field sources of EMI (cell phone, pinpointer, another detectorist) have them nearby and energized when you run the noise cancel. I honestly do not think the manual sensitivity setting should have any bearing on how a frequency scan is accomplished but the manufacturers are not entirely clear on this aspect, either. 3) Make sure you understand the difference between EMI and ground noise. Ground noise will only manifest if the coil is moving. If all is quiet with the coil not moving but things get unstable when you swing, then the issue is ground noise not EMI. Do a ground balance, cancel out the ground signal with disc or notch, or lower transmit power as necessary. 4) Avoid running at max sensitivity unless you can but reduce sensitivity if you are still getting interference on the "quiet" channel. If that is the case, and you are concerned that you have to lower sensitivity too much, then change modes to a different simultaneous multifrequency profile (avoid high sensitivity modes, if possible, such as high frequency micro gold modes, as they are more susceptible to both EMI and Ground Noise). You may have to re-run the noise cancel (quiet frequency channel) routine as that is typically mode specific. Trial Run SMF modes you would not consider ideal for your environment such as beach modes at a farm site, etc. You never know when some experimentation might reveal a non-obvious solution to the issue and enable to utilize the advantages of SMF. 5) If no simultaneous multifrequency channel achieves an acceptable combination of quiet and sensitivity, then try going to single frequency. Typically middle of the road frequencies do best (8 to 15 khz) against both EMI and ground effects. But again, experimentation is key. 6) Re-run the noise cancel routine as needed. Especially if you get closer to those noise generating sources at the site or if you and your buddy's detectors are interfering with each other. That often cleans the problem right up. HTH

Whelp, that’s a pretty scathing statement. Not surprised, though.

Is the world ending tomorrow or something.? 🤣

Love the off-center strike as a detecting find. Back in the day when I was into collecting - I branched off into error coinage collecting as I learned about the 1955 Lincoln Cent Doubled-Die error and some hype surrounding a number of variants of Lincoln Cent doubled-die errors in 1972. So finding a error coin like that detecting would be one of my bucket listers. Great saves.

I have both pinpointers (and a number of others). Don't over think the mineralization thing, you just need the pinpointer to get you close to your target for recovery. I regularly use my Garrett Carrot in the hottest of soils in Culpeper VA without issue. It is a reliable and rugged pinpointer. It gets the job done. The Nokta Pulse Dive is a fine pinpointer and great if you plan on doing any submerged detecting, but I prefer either the Carrot when not using my XP Deus 2 Detector, or the XP Pinpointer when using the Deus 2 because it links up wirelessly to the D2 and is a great, sensitive pinpointer. It is not a PI but also does just fine in hot dirt. Bottom line is that you can't go wrong with either the Pulse Dive or the Carrot. BTW - The only way to tell the level of mineralization in your soil is by using a mineralization meter, which, unfortunately, the Manticore does not have built in. But again, that really doesn't matter other than for curiosity sake for the most part because you will still be able to ground balance it satisfactorily without knowing the actual mineralization level. Also, even though the Manticore will come up with some arbitrary unitless number as a ground balance reference point, you really can't infer the level of mineralization from that number. It's just a reference that lets you know whether the ground reference point is changing as you traverse your site. HTH.

Thanks. BTW - I modded the post to add some BT APTX-LL transmitter/receivers that combined with the APTX-LL ear buds can be used with the Xterra Pro that are A LOT LESS expensive than buying ML BT LE Compatible wireless accessory phones, that you can't even buy yet (but that WILL be guaranteed to be expensive, knowing ML). HTH.

What Jeff pointed out are just about the only non-neckband style APTX-LL buds still out there (they still sport the wire between the right and left buds, i.e., they are not "true wireless" earbud style - but if neckband is a no go, then that's about your only choice at this point). But they were solid as far as APTX-LL compatible earbud audio quality is concerned and were priced north of $50 when first released. That's a smokin' deal Jeff found, if they are legit because of not only the price but the fact that they are hard to find, period. Personally, I like the neck band style because it sort of anchors the buds if one or both buds fall out of your ear while swinging or if you just want to temporarily remove them for a break without fear of them just falling to the ground or tugging on the other ear (the neckband keeps them somewhat more secure to your body than true wireless or even single wired phones like the Aukey's and you don't have the controls dangling off one of the bud wires). If you (or other readers) are potentially interested in reconsidering the neckband style of APTX-LL buds, then the following are viable options: These are expensive but high quality: https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Aurvana-Trio-Wireless-Noise-Isolating/dp/B0868G7Q4P/ These are reasonably priced and have good audio, I have the silver ones but only green are still available for purchase though they are currently out of stock: https://www.amazon.com/Glazata-Bluetooth-Headphones-Neckbands-Earphones/dp/B08JTVC1JH/ Finally, in budget category there is the following - I have not actually verified that these will pair up in APTX-LL mode with the Nox 800 but they should work based on the explicit APTX-LL specifications listed. I also have no idea on actual sound quality. But at $20 plus a 40% off coupon. It's hard to go wrong with these (pick up a second pair for backup) if they pair up in LL mode AND have half way decent fidelity. https://www.amazon.com/HomeSpot-Bluetooth-Headphones-Qualcomm®-Compatible/dp/B09P4WQRH6?ref_=ast_sto_dp My personal favorite are the following - but they are more bulky because they have a loudspeaker to create a personal sound space near you head without the earbuds, but you can also shift to earbud mode if desired. They have AMAZING audio quality and stereo separation in both loudspeaker mode and bud mode. Note that they are not water resistant and need to be protected from direct water impingement. But that's the beauty of wireless, if its raining, you can hide these under your rain gear easily and they will still work well. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Y56W9XQ?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder-t1_k0_1_14&amp=&crid=MHTQ2FXOT71R&amp=&sprefix=avantree+torus True wireless APTX-LL buds (no wire between the buds) are basically unobtanium. As noted previously, if you want to continue your quest for such buds, you need to make 100% sure the buds are spec'd for APTX-LL, SPECIFICALLY. APTX, APTX-HD, and APTX-Adaptive will not provide low latency compatibility with the detectors that Jeff listed above. The issue of compatibility and specs amibiguity lies not so much with the detector manufacturers but with the headphone manufacturers themselves who inexplicably fail to be precise about compatibility with the myriad of bluetooth protocols and codecs that are out there, especially in regards to low latency. It's really annoying, confusing, and borderline underhanded in the way features are presented and specific specs are withheld. Also, Maximus, if you are considering the new ML Xterra Pro, it (as well as the Nox 700/900 and Manticore) uses the newer BT LE spec with the LC3 codec, which is also a low latency codec. Unfortunately, headset manufacturers are still working out compatibility bugs between different BT LE chipsets and the only two BT LE earbuds out there right now are not compatibile with the Minelab BT LE chipset used in the afore mentioned detectors, including the Xterra Pro. So your only optionS on ML Xterra Pro is to spring for over the ear ML branded BT LE wireless headphones as an extra purchase or wired phones or purchase a BT APTX-LL transmitter that will plug into the headphone jack of the detector and transmit to one of the phones listed above. Here are some APTX-LL receiver/transmitters: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B84NDTZB/ https://www.amazon.com/YMOO-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Simultaneously-Headphones/dp/B0BBZZXQTL/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B4W40VC/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XLTPTSD/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08G8Q7NXZ/ Eventually, we THINK, Xterra Pro/Nox/Manticore compatible BT LE third party earbuds will eventually show up on the general marketplace, but they are also currently unobtanium for now. HTH

Fire away with the questions, Steve. Retirement is great and has reinvigorated the hobby for me now that I don’t have to squeeze it in just on weekends and work around family events. Word of advice: Prioritize joining a club or participate in local organized group hunt activities so you can build a network of local acquaintances who can advise you on gaining access to productive sites. Unless you are planning on prospecting or beach hunting, the best permissions are typically privately owned properties versus public land like parks which is subject to more restrictions and has typically been hit hard. Focusing your energy into site historic and map survey research and gaining site access permissions (i.e., location, location, location) are the keys to success and enjoyment of the hobby. The equipment, though necessary and important, is less critical to success because most mainstream and popular detectors perform well if the user takes the time to simply accumulate swing hours to learn how to use it. The debates here about features and performance comparisons are usually arguments about shades of gray and personal preference rather than of substantial machine performance differences - so let your budget be your guide and ask questions about machines you are considering within that budget. No need to invest big bucks until you figure out if you really have the detecting bug, and even then you can get a single machine that can do it all in the water or on land and that can grow with you from beginner to pro for less than $500 (check out the Minelab Xterra Pro or Nokta Legend for starters), with the only real need for a second machine for backup or as a loaner for a buddy or family member. Besides the detector, you’ll also need a handheld electronic target recovery pinpointer (the Garrett “Carrot” Propointer AT is popular, a probe and/or hand digging tool/exctractor (Lesche tool or a gardening knife) for recovering targets without damaging manicured turf, a larger, preferably root slaying shovel/spade if you’re detecting in large unmanicured lawns/fields or woods, a long handled heavy duty sand/water scoop for the beach, and a finds pouch for your recoveries and to carry your recovery tools - a tool/nail apron can serve as an inexpensive starter pouch for this purpose. I also personally like to wear neoprene gloves to protect against nast surprises during target recovery such as sharp glass, jagged aluminum, needles, creatures, thorns, and poison ivy roots, etc. that can ruin your day. Speaking of trash, get yourself into the proper mindset and set expectations accordingly. You will be digging A LOT of trash. The gold rings, silver coins, and rare relics will come, but will be interspersed mostly with nails, pull tabs, can slaw, bolts, screw caps, wire, aluminum siding, modern bullets, slugs, shot, and casings, and zincolns. Patience, pragmatism, and perseverance are eventually rewarded, and you’ll get hooked. You gonna luv it. Welcome and happy hunting.

What he is saying is that when he first hit the sites he thought he was hitting the hot spots and when he decided to hit the "fringes" he figured out he was hitting the fringe areas all along and what he thought were the fringe areas turned out to be the actual hot spots. Point being, you may just not have gotten your coil over the areas you THOUGHT you had previously covered because even when we grid a place, it is hard to know whether we really got the meaty part of the coil over every square centimeter. I think we tend to overestimate how thoroughly we have covered a given site, even postage stamp size plots, with our coils. Also, variable ground conditions like moisture content can change your ability hear fringe targets when dry one day that turn into banging signals when moist the next. Also, targets are physically moving in the ground, sinking with gravity and rain action, or moving based on vegetation or manual disturbances of the soil. Also, as mentioned, others may have come along a removed targets that were masking the ones you found. Just a lot of variables out there. I do believe focus and attitude are big players in metal detecting. Ever notice how your finds rate goes down during a detecting session until the area seems played out. I think we attribute that simply to taking targets out of the ground but that doesn't explain why when we return to the site we start finding things again. I think we truly lose concentration and fatigue sets in as the day goes on and takes us off our A-game. Also, sometimes, snagging a great find, ups your confidence and things kind of steamroll and you have a great day at a site you previously thought was played out. So yes, improved concentration could very well be a player in your site coming alive again. All these things are what makes this hobby both frustrating and invigorating. You just never know what you are going to find and should generally expect the unexpected.

The additional coverage of the 10x5 suits my purposes better, so I personally am hoping for 3rd party support here, but I much prefer the 8x5.5 as an option over a 6" round. If the 8x5.5 turns out to be the only option, not a show stopper. But unless an incredible Manticore deal falls in my lap, I am in no hurry to get a Manticore and will wait at least until the accessory coils are available and assessed by users.

The only thing holding me back at this point is nothing equivalent to the Nox 10x5 coil available for Manticore, yet.