Chase Goldman

Good reminder to make sure you don't have bone phones selected as your audio output. What are the other soecific glitches have you noticed with the update? I am tracking them in a consolidated 1.X Update issues post. Thanks.

Yes, that’s not a glitch and is normal behavior and documented in the user guide.

Yeah. Put me in that category. Other than for curiosity's sake, I otherwise couldn't care less about this accessory, if that is what it is. Why this would be prioritized over a small elliptical or a functioning, long-promised companion app is beyond me.

Thanks for reporting back. You should now do as Gary Black from XP recommended and send a short video to XP customer service. Long shot - There may be a hardware issue with the controller headphone/data/charge connector that is making it think you have bone phones plugged in or something. Anyway, your best bet is XP customer support at this point. Good luck and let us know how it got resolved and how your XP customer support experience went.

It all matters: angle of approach, coil, frequency, audio settings, discrimination, notch, TID accuracy, repeatability, and stability; sensitivity, variable soil conditions on the same patch of soil (moisture, added trash, etc.), etc. Also, different detector models process targets differently even with nearly identical settings, coils, frequencies, and recovery speeds. Finally, we rarely ever cover every square millimeter of ground even if we think we do, so declaring a site “hunted out” is almost always wrong. All of these factors and infinite variable combinations make claims that one detector is better than another because targets have been pulled out of a “hunted out” patch dubious at best and most likely meaningless. You kind of proved that with your Legend > Nox > Legend anecdote.

Ha. Those code names are better than the actual names.

Here is the two-box Deus Coil rendering XP first mentioned over 7 years ago:

WTG on the button and the good karma with the landowner should pay dividends down the road. I need to visit the Valley some day and detect there. Have only been to Winchester and east of the Blue Ridge. HH and thanks for sharing.

Let us know how it goes. If that doesn't work, try reverting to an earlier version (e.g. 0.71) and then reinstalling 1.1.

Yes. Try that.

Try power cycling a couple times. This was reported by some users on ver 1.0, thought it was addressed by version 1.1 but maybe not.

Brad - thanks for providing that link. Much appreciated. Access to Tom's forum has been spotty of late and frankly, the way its laid out is severely dated and makes it difficult to follow and find information. However, I'm not buying into what ML is saying because the view from the outside kind of contradicts that statement. First, if it's a supply-demand issue, why did they decide to simultaneously take on Nox 700/900 and X-Terra Pro production which utilizes and exhausts many of the same hardware components and consumes precious assembly line capacity and resources at their manufacturer in Malaysia? If anything, the problem is not external demand but an internal self-inflicted wound. I seriously doubt (but can't prove) that the Manticore demand, at its Price Point, is higher than Nox was at its peak in 2018, and while accessory coils were delayed there too, based on similar release time frames, accessory coils should have been released by now. If demand is so high, and supply chain management so challenged, then why take on additional demand and models that would just exacerbate the problem? Despite ML's claims, they seem to have no problem feeding the beast at Cabela's and other big box retailers at a 50 detector per shipment clip, because big box can move vast quantities of product faster that individual dealers. Note also that ML does not have to directly subsidize their advertised manufacturer US military discount like they do with individual dealers, because Cabelas does not participate in that program as they have their own. I think the bottom line is that coils simply do not bring in as much revenue as detectors so as long as ML can focus on cranking out Manticores, Nox's and Xterras they can make money hand over fist and since they've already captured the Manticore buyer, there is no hurry to get the accessories out, because in their misguided point of view, having accessories available on day one does not accelerate detector sales. I disagree and think it is a poor business decision and is sort of a slap in the face to Manticore buyers to keep dragging their feet on it. But it is what it is. All I can say is don't hold your breath waiting for those coils to hit the streets as they apparently aren't even willing to project a release date at this point, 7 months into the release of the Manticore...and nine plus months after simultaneously announcing the Manticore and the accessory coils, with photo renderings.

Same here on the beach. Yes, that with Notch might be the answer. A case where the positive disc processing of the stake might be working against you.

Hmm. Interesting. So there potentially is merit to zero iron volume as I suggested earlier in this thread. But to be fair, I was suggesting it as an alternative to notch. Great info CPT.

From my perspective, the point of this thread appeared to be more about you mocking others from afar who have misconceptions about the nuances of high end detecting gear without giving them the recourse to defend their position on a level playing field. People are always going to have these misconceptions and will invariably pass them on to others who will either run with that flawed information or do the due diligence research to verify where truth lies. Pointing that out here with your attitude is simply self serving and does nothing to help those who don't understand. Not sure what you were hoping to accomplish here other than grandstanding about how you saved everyone from the horrors of misinformation. It is also indeed painfully apparent you haven't swung a Manticore because you'd know that getting a single TID number is almost more the exception than the rule. Seriously, though, the Manticore and Next Gen Equinox numbers often bounce around on isolated non-ferrous targets at depth. Furthermore, the TT circle is not necessarily less "accurate" than the visual TID number. In some respects it is actually a better, more informed and less filtered version of the processed target signal. Almost a probability density plot of the most likely target IDs resulting from the variables that affect the final processed target ID number on each subsequent swing. So idealizing to the perfect single-digit target signal is actually not reflective of the real world except when there is little doubt as to the nature of a no-brainer shallow or surface target. Finally, I am going to extend to you the same courtesy you extended to the anonymous targets of your sarcasm and am locking this thread before you reply. I can see it is just going to devolve into one of "those" threads where you don't know when to put the shovel down while you dig a deeper hole with each reply and people just throw up their hands in frustration. You can take it up with me or Steve offline if you so wish.

While you are fundamentally correct in your assertion regarding TT and target shape correlation, what the man is saying is not necessarily "completely" wrong. While the TT doesn't actually show the shape of a target, the traces can show TID variability that occurs with non-symmetric targets, co-located targets, and seemingly "stable" TIDs can show smears and shapes other than a dot. The traces the man describes may very well align with his real life experience digging can slaw and pull tabs. Do you have actual field experience with the Manticore that contradicts the man's assertions and actual experiences regarding the correlation of his TT plots and target predictions? Also, speaking as a site moderator and from past experience, no real good can come from documenting your interactions with others on another MD site and quoting others who cannot defend themselves here and doing so with minimal context. Even if the individuals and site go unnamed it can put Steve in an awkward position with the principles of the other site - doesn't take much detective work for people to figure out was is going on to have it boomerang back. So while it's worth it to continue to discuss the nuances of Manticore target trace in this thread, let's just take the high road and put a stop to airing your differences of opinion and drama with these unnamed people from your anonymous detecting site, if you don't mind. Thanks for understanding.

I tend to think ALL detectors suffer in plowed, aerated fields. It's a known issue that going into a "fluffy" disc'd and aerated field your depth is just going to suffer even with a PI. We have those conditions in the US too. Do you have a detector that does better than the Minelabs under those conditions?

Well not all beach hunters reside in Florida like you and Tom and and aren’t perpetually blessed with the advantage of always working in “0” reference Florida dry sugar sand where this “update” has perhaps little usefulness. Ground balancing and tracking requires the presence of some level of mineralization to key off of. So the detector ground balance algorithm works best when it can actually sense a change in mineralization level as the coil is pumped above (for auto and manual ground balance) or swept along the ground (for tracking ground balance). Otherwise, you’ll just get a zero ground phase reading while pumping or unstable ground phase adjustments while tracking - which is just fine provided the dry sand ground phase is truly at or near zero. Which is indeed the case for most beaches. However, low magnetic mineralization dry sand at some beaches can still have a significant non-zero ground phase reference as a result of non-magnetic (I.e., non-black sand) mineral components. But the auto ground balance algorithm may have trouble picking this up in low mineralization situations. So I suspect ML has adjusted the dry sand ground balance algorithm to be sensitive to and to properly respond to changes in low mineralization levels so that a more precise ground balance point can be obtained on dry sand beaches that have a non-zero ground phase. This enables the detector to run in horseshoe (i.e., No Discrimination) mode without experiencing non-zero ground phase “grunts”. This update might also help those who utilize ground tracking to enable seamless, stable transitions between dry sand, to damp sand, to wet salt sand, and surf. Granted not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but some outside of Florida and even in Florida might find it helpful. Sorry this is not an overly exciting update for you Florida beach hunters, but Manticore already seemed tailor made for the beach and I was not hearing beach hunters wanting for much more from Manticore out of the box. Probably due to the fact that Tom D was so heavily involved in providing feedback to the designers in the early stages of design. Is there something you really wish ML had addressed for the beach hunters in this first update that they did not provide, Brad?

I’m really hoping it means they’ve received and incorporated an improved compatibility update to the Nordic BT LE SoC in both the Manticore transmitter and the phones that will make Nordic play nice with 3rd party BT LE LC3 compatible hardware, but that’s probably just wishful thinking on my part.

Fantastic video describing the features added with the update. And a fantastic looking and comprehensive update to boot. Regarding the wireless headphone firmware upgrade, I wonder if this affects cross-platform compatibility of the ML-105s with the Nox or X-Terra Pro and also whether a similar wireless connectivity enhancement update (as well as other features) are slated for the Nox 700/900. Glad this is out there now. Accessory coils can’t be far behind as I seem to recall that ML issued their first Nox update just prior to the 6” coil being released. Note to Simon, even though the written description of the new Stabiliser filter setting alludes to improved TID stability, Brass Medic really only addressed the audio impacts of the new setting and was pretty adamant that the filter should only be engaged when detecting in environments subject to iron pollution and the resultant exposure to falsing iron (presumably because of other negative trade offs resulting from engaging the stabilizer, perhaps affecting audio or target ID responsiveness as is the case with most filters, and as also suspected by Clive @cjc above). Therefore, this does not necessarily sound like a TID stability panacea for general usage. Would like to know what you, Clive , or any other experienced Manticore users think about this once you’ve had a chance to take the new update out for some comprehensive trial runs. Specifically, has TID stability, overall, been enhanced, or only when this Stabilizer filter is invoked? Also a question for Manticore experts regarding the new “red” target ID feature, if this only works with the discrimination pattern suppressed (i.e., in horseshoe mode), what is keying the Manti to display the red numbers? Is it the invoked, custom upper and lower Ferrous Limits pattern profile?

My OCD just prevents me from not pointing this out, but for accuracy sakes, the ML-105’s that come with the Manticore also pair with the X-Terra Pro, but as you say, both the ML-85’s and ML-105’s are basically unobtainium as standalone accessories right now, and when available, the ML-105’s price point as an accessory will likely be even worse than that anticipated for the ML-85’s. Alternatively, a plug in APTX-LL transmitter and compatible APTX-LL phones can probably be obtained for less than half of what ML will likely charge for the ML-85’s if one prefers a wireless configuration for their X-Terra Pro nugget slayer. But yeah, the accessories will drive the price to the point where other detectors begin to become relevant considerations. FWIW

Thanks for the reminder. I was primarily talking apparel, pouch, pack, and outerwear color preferences. As an electrical engineer and veteran working on military electronics systems designs for 40 years, I understand heat issues, especially as they relate to the detector electronics and the havoc that can be caused by dark colored control head covers in direct sunlight. But you wouldn't necessarily know that based on the proliferation of third party black head covers being offered out there for Nox, etc.

Ok. With disc and no iron volume, silence but with notch you got something? That’s an interesting nuance, I missed. Like a partial unmasking?

Dan - to be clear I wasn’t suggesting zero iron volume to “fix” the masking issue just in response to your comment regarding your preference for silent search wrt to iron being your motivation to go with Notch vice Disc. Like I said, it’s really six one way, half a dozen the other. Not sure it makes any practical difference with respect to your keeper count so just go with what works for you.

JC - Dan relayed to me in some more detailed offline discussions, that it happens with all three base beach programs (i.e., dive, beach, as well as beach sensitive) regardless of the Max F setting used for each (i.e., he used all three Max F settings with each of the three base beach programs) and that he was able to unmask with General and other land based base programs regardless of the Max F settings. Agree that it’s more than just about Max F in the way SMF target signals are processed, but it appears that the Beach programs in general are doing something noticeably different than the “land” programs with respect to target signal processing even with otherwise identical user setting setups (other than the salt sensitivity setting which is only present on the beach base programs - and adjustment of which across its entire range had no effect on this masking behavior). Also, in another thread, he noted different target response behaviors (primarily associated with TID differences) between beach sensitive and beach with identical user settings (including Max F), so that is consistent with your assertion that the SMF profiles and signal processing algorithms are different between outwardly similar programs (e.g., beach and beach sensitive) that goes beyond the SMF Max F user setting.