Chase Goldman

On the Manticore it's called the ferrous limits setting. Upper ferrous limits are for suppressing falsing small iron (typically) and lower ferrous limits are for suppressing falsing big iron (typically). Those limits show up as shaded areas above and below the non-ferrous centerline on the 2-D display.

Same here, but the Nox 900 now has pitch audio for all modes and as a long time Deus user, that makes me feel more at home with it's new rendition of "Those Were the Days".

Yes, probably only two frequencies are combined to create the D2 FMF waveform similar to the Nox. Just to put a myth to rest...again (not saying you buy into this, Doc Robby, but others still do): Nox does not use a combination of 5, 10, 15, 20, and 40 khz for the multifrequency modes contrary to popular belief that stemmed from confusing ML visual marketing materials that conflated the multifrequency "cloud" with the discrete single frequency settings - it primarily uses 2 and in a couple modes, 3 discrete frequences based on 3rd party measurements - even ML themselves say that the fewer simultaneos frequencies you can get away with is better. One of the reasons is that transmitting more waveforms requires more power to be shared between the discrete frequencies, if truly simultaneous, which means more total power is required to create an equivalent magnetic field strength as a single frequency coil. It's all speculation in the end, because XP only reveals the "maximum" frequency used in each mode and includes some veiled references to frequency addition and subtraction for each mode description in the user guide. No diffrent than all the manufacturers who keep their multifrequency secret sauce, pretty much a secret. However, the number of discrete frequencies used is less important than the ratio of the highest and lowest frequencies used, how the waveforms are combined and filtered, and ultimately how the target signal is processed. Again, the manufacturers are not forthcoming about this for obvious business reasons, but the marketing divisions milk the meaningless technobabble for all its worth and feed it to us end users. True for any high tech gadget these days. Knowledge or knowing someone with knowledge or subscribing to a great discussion forum is power in this regard. HTH

I hear you, but FWIW - that's exactly why I DID go to the D2 > Settings are now more logically laid out and accessible than the D1 (I know, Steve H., that's a low bar ) with very useful single-key, long-press shortcuts for noise cancel and ground grab and the default program settings need LESS tweaking out of the box for turn on and go detecting AFAIC. Plus my fingertips don't feel like I am being tortured by those crazy recessed buttons on the D1 remote. Honestly, I would have upgraded to D2 purely for the operating improvements alone (improved remote ergonomics, menus, etc., synced power on/off of the remote and paired headphones). The FMF performance almost seems like a bonus. The only thing I lament is still being married to old school USB mini ports and plugs and the frustratingly fragile coil charge clips...and no 10x5 coil... Exactly why I have still hung on to the D1, but if XP does see fit to release a compatible 10x5 for the D2, bye bye D1. Right now though, I find myself using the Nox more than the D1 when a 10x5 is called for.

I usually find a frozen cell phone when hunting in those conditions on sled hills... Thanks for taking us along...

Gary - the site has a pretty robust search feature, but dive into the thread above as a starting point...

Folks, Just wanted to update you all on my experience with ML Support and Repair following the discovery of the non-functioning Horseshoe (All Metal) button on my new Nox 900. To recap, I received my new Nox 900 a week before Christmas and decided to "surprise" myself with a new toy. The only one who was surprised was my wife - she muttered something like "another one of those?...etc. etc." I guess you could say she was less surprised than perturbed at the thought of another machine taking up space. Anyway, literally like an excited kid at Christmas, I went out to the yard to play with my new toy and was having fun discovering what it could do until I discovered what it couldn't - and that was go into All Metal mode because depressing the Horseshoe button did nothing at all. The button was non-frunctional. With the air audibly exiting my joy ballon, I contacted my dealer and was informed that I needed to deal direct with ML to get the issue resolved because they wanted to be aware of and collect failed Equinox 700/900 and Manticore machines to assess failures and feed them back to ML HQ. So Sun 12/25 was a bust. Contacted dealer on 12/26 and registered the Nox 900 at ML.COM and then made contact with Minelab Support on 12/27. They advised me to fill out a repair ticket with the pertinent information (Model, Place and Date of Purchase, Serial #, Description of the issue, etc.). They had me send a copy of my receipt in to "verify the purchase was less than 30 days old". The purpose of this determination is that ML has a policy that if a detector fails within the first 30 days, you get a complete new-in-box detector. After they verified the 30-day thing they sent me a pre-paid FEDEX shipping lablel. I packed my failed Nox 900 and all accessories back into the original retail box and shipping box and dropped it off at FEDEX late afternoon on Friday 12/30. I think it missed the final 4pm pickup at my FEDEX store, so it probably did not leave the store until Saturday 12/31. I received a confirmation of receipt and verification of the issue and a shipping notification on Thursday 1/5 and it arrived this afternoon 1/7. I took it out to play and everything seems to work great. All-in-all, as far as the support experience goes - now that I know the drill, it was not too bad, especially considering that it was during the holidays. If you are in the US and need to get your brand new Nox 700/900 or Manticore fixed your best bet is to just go directly to the following Detector Center page and fill our a repair ticket with the pertinent information. If you attempt to phone or email you are just going to delay the inevitable because that is what ML will tell you to do once they do return your call or respond to your email. So register your product's Serial number on the ML Warranty Registration page and just fill out the repair ticket form which you can find on this page: Detector Center - Start Here to Set Up a Repair (detectorrepair.com) If you are unsure if your detector needs repair or need technical support, here is the contact information (USA/Canada): NORTH AMERICA USA Detector Center Pennsylvania, USA T: 814 283 4270 E: newrepair@detectorrepair.com W: www.detectorrepair.com Canada T: 1-888-949-6522 E: service@minelabamericas.com Other regions are listed here: Service & Support | Minelab Metal Detectors Minelab Americas Customer Care Contact Info THE AMERICAS (NORTH & SOUTH) MINELAB AMERICAS INC SALES, SUPPORT & SERVICE 123 Ambassador Drive, Suite 123 Naperville, IL 60540, USA Customer Care: 1-877-SOS-MLAB (1-877-767-6522) Toll Free: 1-888-949-6522 T: 1-630-401-8180 E: service@minelabamericas.com for Service E: info@minelabamericas.com for Consumer products E: countermine@minelab.com.au for Countermine products The office supports regions: USA, Canada, Mexico, Central America, South America and The Caribbean. Other regions see this page: https://www.minelab.com/usa/contact-us Break - Break While op testing the Nox 900 this afternoon, I noticed neat little added "minor" feature. Pinpoint mode has been improved in terms of responsiveness and doesn't (so far) seem to suffer from the volume glitches and lockups that still plague the Nox 600/800 even after a few updates that were meant to address those issues. But the kicker is that now Target ID remains "live" while in pinpoint mode. Effectively that means you can actually search in pinpoint mode and get target ID feedback. I think that is cool and useful under certain conditions. Surprised no one mentioned that one yet. The user manual confirms this new "feature". Anyway, hope to get some real world swinging in this week to report on 900 performance in Virginia. Cheers, Chase

Also, my read of the manual allows for saving up to 4 ferrous limit profiles, I believe. So that can help with setup for repeat site visits.

I know, just poking fun. I figured out you were talking about the quick ferrous limit "blanket" adjustment. Thanks for posting the response.

Absolutely, XP did botch one of the earlier updates with a loss of SW configuration/version control. Lives were not on the line like with safety critcal sofware (think Boeing 737 Max), but that is still a big no no. They had about 3 different versions of 0.6 in the wild with different features and bugs, were not updating the minor ver # on each release (i.e., 0.6 > 0.61 > 0.62) so they all had the same version numbers but different "born on" dates (the only way you could tell the difference but you had to take a deep dive into the "about the SW" menus on the remote to tell the difference). In the process they broke something important from a performance standpoint (I think there was a depth hit on certain modes or something) and there was no way to roll back. I had unwittingly updated to get one of the desired features, thinking I would be able to roll back if necessary and got screwed just before a week-long digging trip. Borrowed someone else's D2 for the trip while XP was sorting it out. I think they "re-learned" this lesson from some Deus 1 false starts, addressed the causes, and are proceeding cautiously as a result. Point being, that this upcoming release will likely be a "final" production release (i.e., non-Beta ver 1.X), will likely have several new (though likely minor) enhancements and bug fixes and I really want them to do thorough regression testing to make sure they don't break stuff that is presently working well. Gary Black popped on this thread earlier and basically confirmed it's coming but obviously could not give us a precise release window because testing always comes with uncertainty as bugs are uncovered, addressed and re-tested. It's an arduous, iterative and often painful process that is not appreciated by those who have not experienced it. Would like to have it sooner rather than later myself, but definitely not before it's fully baked. In the mean time, it's not holding me back in the least...

But strick said 5 seconds? What the heck... (JK Chuck!)

But it that also doesn't rule out them being the best.

I'm right there with ya, NC.

You don't need the remote to update the WS6. Each component (remote, WS6) is updated separately by the PC updater program.

Sorry, to clarify better what I meant: when using pitch as a purely audio detection method you don't get precise target conductivity information (audio TID) from the audio only (i.e., without visual TID assist) [see the excerpt from the D2 manual below]. I agree that you can infer conductivity based on the discrimination and notch breakpoints by setting up sophisticated notching such that you are only hitting coins or high conductors, but pitch by itself cannot give audio target ID information such as multitones or full tones can (i.e., tell you you are hitting low, medium, or high conductors from audio alone). That's just the nature of pitch. This is not saying that pitch is not "sensitive" or effective for coin shooting or doesn't give pure sounding audio for coin targets. The detector still hits coin targets accurately and with correct, precise visual TID when using pitch audio. But no one using pitch audio can honestly say with certainty they are hitting mid conductive or high conductive coins unless they have notched everything out but a specific conductivity region (i.e., notched everything below 80) solely with pitch audio and without glancing at visual ID. They can say they are likely hitting a coin, ring, or a symmetric/round target and likely not hitting ferrous. That was my only point. FWIW - I use pitch audio almost exclusively whether I am relic hunting or shooting coins and jewelry at beaches and parks. HTH

Yeah, pitch is not really for precise coin shooting. I use it mainly to give me the following information for relic targets - Ferrous vs. Non-ferrous, "round" non-ferrous versus vs. "junk" non-ferrous (distorted pitch), deep/small footprint (lower pitch, lower volume intensity) vs. shallow/large footprint (high pitch, high volume intensity) and a glance at target ID for additional info. It also affords a relatively seamless transition when I shift into D2 Relic mode which uses a similar but slightly different audio scheme. I get how full tones gives audio feedback on target ID, but I still found myself glancing at TID anyway because I could only really discern about 5 tone "regions". Hopefully, XP will improve Full Tones further because I definitely feel that on the D2 full tones audio is less descriptive than it was on D1 and the overall full tone audio intensity on D2 is weaker than pitch tones and multi-tones.

No, it's a different scheme - the linearity and slope of the displayed "target line" gives the user some clues as to the nature of the target. IMO not nearly as sophisticated as the M-core 2D (which, in turn, is not as sophisticated as the CTX due to the lack of the FeCo target ID scheme on M-core). TBH - I don't personally find the X-Y screen or 2D graphical displays as useful as others because my brain is trained to extract target information from nuances in target audio. If I had gotten a CTX instead of a Deus 7+ years ago, the story might have been different. Deus pitch audio and full tones facilitate iffy target dig decisions for me, 50 tones on Nox 800 was more discriptive but Nox 800 Gold mode pitch audio was closer to what I was used to on Deus. Now that ML has incorporated D-pitch audio in the Nox 900 as a tone option for ALL modes and the additional audio customization on M-core ML has closed some of the audio gap with Deus. I suspect that even if I were to eventually get the M-core, the M-core audio would be my primary iffy target discriminator vs. the 2D display.

Well, since you've decided to go Deus 2 and with your CTX experience, you might find the D2 X-Y display useful, though its a different scheme. I find the D2 and Nox to be a formidable complimentary combo and it is in that context that I am not fully bought in to Manticore...yet. If ML did not sneak the Nox 900 in there, I would be more interested in M-core and am certainly interested in the 2D display's possibilities. Regardless, 900 or no 900, I was going to wait on M-core at least until they released the small coil.

Have you tried pitch audio? I was a full tone "zealot" on the Deus 1 and switched to pitch audio with separate iron audio for discriminated ferrous. Non-ferrous targets really pop (and give nuanced tonal distortion on non-round, non-ferrous targets like canslaw or big cans) and are easily differentiated from the iron audio grunts. A quick glance at D2's relatively stable TIDs makes for a quick dig decision based on your target range(s) of interest (the simultaneous presence of iron grunts clues you in to potential ferrous TID down-averaging) and you can always further interrogate an iffy target with a diffent mode, or simply a different version of your core program with different audio or filters. Yes, more reliance on TID than pure audio but it has simply become second nature.

Strick, Regarding Ferrous Limits setup, I don't have the Manticore, but it looks like more than a "5 second" adjustment from perusing the the M-core user guide. Heck, it takes longer than 5 seconds to change the Iron Bias setting (a single number) on my Nox but that's more a function of the clunky menu navigation of the Nox. Isn't there some trial and error involved in setting up the upper (and lower) limits across the entire TID range to filter specific TID regions where nail falsing so that you don't "overfilter"? Is there any real downside to simply setting aggressive nail falsing upper ferrous limits, for simplicity. Are there multiple ferrous limit profiles you can set up so you are not constantly having to tweak the limits for different site conditions? Any additional real user perspective you can share in this regard would be appreciated.

I too am a big believer in having complimentary detectors as no one detector does it all. I have found the D1 and Nox 800 (with the 10x5 coil) complimented each other well and covered most of the detecting situationals I encounter. Expecting the D2 and my replacement 900 to do all that and more. Big believer in having diverse detector DNA for backup/complimentary detectors (e.g., Deus and Nox or Nox and Legend or Legend and Manticore > if you want max value and max features). I personally lean towards Deus as a mandatory component of the pairing for 3 reasons: 1) Proven performance and versatility. Biggest D2 knocks are cost (especially coils because they do signal processing), small gold prospecting, antenna claptrap for water hunting. and lack of a small elliptical (Nox 900 or Legend can fill those gaps or M-core if you want to pay for additional, tangible bells and whistles - and when the M-core small elliptical eventually arrives). 2) I have 7+ years swinging a Deus/Deus 2 - so I know the machine well (still learning new tricks with the D2). 3) Modular Reconfigurability and minimum weight. With the investment of a single additional D2 coil (~$400), an additional D2 stem or 3rd party shaft system (~$100 to $150), and wired or XP wireless phones ($550 to $170 for a total of $550 to $670 more) you have a complete 2nd detector. FWIW

With a 900 already in hand, you're not missing much as far as M-core is concerned (IMO), and you have $500 -$600 still in your pocket that you can apply to another detector.

WTG Eric. And if it still doesn't click (it's a hit or miss proposition - some love it, some don't ever click with it and its not for lack of trying - I get it), that Nox 900 looks like it will fill the bill nicely to do some of things and go some of the places your 800 couldn't. Good Luck in 2023.

Yes, in fact it is preferred that the port sources 2A (@5VDC). The detector has a built in charge controller.

The And they tolerate me, a Northern Virginian, only because Bob allows me to hang out with him. Bob's ability to basically walk away with an average of about 100 acres of new permissions with every chat with the landowners is amazing. Very thankful he let's me partake in much needed digging therapy, when necessary. To that point, I coaxed some keepers out of a previously stingy field when we paired up earlier this week. Early 1800's Artillery Button, pre-1700 asymmetric shoe buckle, 1887 IHP, carved lead cube, and other miscellaneous brass. Good times.