Tom_in_CA

Yes. We dig more pre-Mexican independence reales (ie.: pre 1822) than Mexican reales (post 1822), here in CA. I've always figured that was because Spain had heavily bankrolled the push north into Alta CA. But by the time of the Mexican independence, there was already the beginnings of little towns here, other nationalities settling, missions and presidios were in decline, etc... Quite frankly, Mexico simply didn't take very good care of Alta CA. Alta CA was seen as self-sufficient by that time. Like when CA gained her independence from Mexico, hardly a shot was fired, for example.

Fun story . Thanx ! And yes: I've heard of md'rs who, because they/we "have the mindset", have been able to find stuff, just by eyeballing, that others just don't "connect the dots" or see on. Great read !

What ?? You mean the southern CA turfed parks and beaches aren't brimming with bust coins ? On the east coast, they're in every sand box. But here in CA: Ya gotta start doing the Indiana Jones relicky sites of CA to get them . 🤣

nice.

I know I keep joking about "moving to the Sierra foothills" in answer to the md'ing show & tell. And thus moving in on such md'ing pursuits. Yet, I'm at the age (60 now, on central CA real estate holdings) , where my wife & I are actually eyeing locations along the historic Hwy 49 corridor. Because: Correct me if I'm wrong, but that corridor is becoming an increasingly popular area for empty nesters and retirees ? But as I say: Pay no attention to the mysterious man in the trench-coat seen milling around with the GPS tracking device @ your front driveway. haha

Welcome to the harsh-cruel-reality of the Deus. Although it's touted as the "cat's meow" in iron ridden sites, yet .... it is indeed *weak* on flat tin iron type objects. Items that other standard discriminators effortlessly pass. The Deus faithful will say that there's audio clues that can tell the difference. But I'm still dubious of one detail : Will any such audio clues *only work* when there is a "clear line of sight" to the target ? Ie.: non masked ? If so, then ... gee, so too can standard machines likewise get a "clean signal" on an un-obstructed signal ? But, like you ..... I'm still learning it.

Haha, good to hear from you Dan. Glad you're out and about ! Your deep- turf cherry picking skills are the stuff of legend. I still say you're a robot, and not human ! Since you have so much experience with that balls-to-the-walls nugget machine, getting insanely deep beach coins, I say you should take that to some of those junky Los Angeles /So. CA turfed parks. I mean, go figure : You can't argue with 1.5 ft. on a dime, now can you ? Hence, what could *possibly* go wrong ? If it works at the beach, then ... by golly ... what are you waiting for ? Doh ! 😘 Hey, I dunno if you remember the young fellow that you were kind enough to show the ropes to, years ago: "Michael" from Laguna Beach. You got him hooked. He's been getting seateds and reales lately. He never got much into turf, and drifted instead to relicky pursuits. He's a fun character to hunt with ! So thanks for showing him some ropes.

I remember that beach ! Those were great reports to follow. If I recall, it was a dry-sand zone, where no one else had ever harvested beyond a foot or whatever. So you went in with the balls-to-the-walls nugget machine, and were getting coins below the "mere mortal " levels 😅 Do you ever return to that beach to try that anymore ?

Great pictures school-of-hard-nox. And judging from the amount of ferrous targets to coins, the ratio wasn't too punishing, eh ?

Correct. And that was : For park turf. As you will see on his opening post question to the thread. Thus yes : We are right-on-subject. Of pro-con discussion for that situational type of hunt objective. Right ? 😔

There is no doubt that a PI will get coins that a VLF is "not going to hit on". That does not need to be "read and re-read" It is undisputed. The question is : Can that ability be parlayed into junky park turf hunting ? Or is "The devil in the details" ?

Also : Greg is one of two dealers in CA who thinks they can tell aluminum apart from gold . With certain machines. Not sure if he's now including the TDI in this claim. But if you challenge them to "show this ability" in actual field tests, you will hear the sound of crickets. Here's the trick of the mind they are falling for : If you wave a few gold rings, and a few tabs and foil wads, in front of a detector in an air test, THEN YES: Each one will give a "different sound". So at first blush, it might *seem* that a person can tell "aluminum apart from gold". Right ? But no : What this fails to realize is that SO TOO does every gold ring sound different from each other. And SO TOO does every random aluminum blob or tab-type sound different from each other. Any attempt to alert them to this mind trick falls on deaf ears. So you have the poor buyers, who have seen this air-test-parlor trick. Who are convinced that if they "ascend to this master sage level", that they can somehow tell aluminum apart from gold. Mind you, no one's asking to leave "all the gold behind" and dig "only gold". Heck, most of us would be happy if the odds were 50 to 1, or 100 to 1, etc.... So when you try to pin these guys down on what the ratios would be (assuming their claims are true ) in junky urban parks, you begin to realize that this nothing more than random eventual odds. Or simple ring-enhancement programs of sorts.

Greg M. will NOT be able to use a TDI, or any pulse, and pull more old coins from park-turf-hunting. I have dueled with him before. He's a nice guy, and a known reputable dealer. But no .... he would not be able to use a pulse to out-do a standard machine in the turf , with anyone who is of an on-par level. If someone wanted to compare machines with him, they would need to be *very careful* on stating what "successful" means, ahead of time. To me, it means: most old coins . But if someone wants to lower his disc. and strip-mine, and gets on a V-nickel or something, that the other guy (who was cherry-picking) would have passed, then.... that needs to be stated ahead of time. So that BOTH of them can lower their disc. If my desire were for gold rings, then I wouldn't be strip-mining junky urban turfed parks. I'd simply go to the beach. I know that some people think that by entering into a 'strip-mine' mindset, that they'll have the "best of all worlds". But it never works like that for junky urban turfed park hunting. At the end of the day, the person who was strip-mining will have a pouch full of junk, clad, a possible wheatie or two, and a .... yes ..... V nickel. Because he spent all his time digging non-old-coin-signals. While the other guy has 10 or 15 wheaties, a few silvers, and ... yes ... no V-nickels. Ok, you tell me : Who got the most oldies ? See ? So the objective will need to be stated ahead of time.

But if you're referring to the fellow who thinks he can tell aluminum apart from gold, then ... no ... his technique is to "strip-mine". And then ... sure anyone who strip-mines turf will, yes, eventually get a ring or a V-nickel that the cherry-picker (who was angling for deep high conductors) will miss. This is a given. So the goal would need to be pre-stated. If it's "who comes in with the most old silver at the end of the day", then THAT is the test I'm curious about. Not "who can strip-mine and get a nickel or tinsel thin chain", etc..... If that were my objective, then sure: I'd enter into relic mindset, and then I too can strip-mine.

No. There is no Whites dealer in the Bay area using a TDI in park-turf, and being "very successful", that I know of. You're not talking about the clown that thinks he can tell aluminum apart from gold ? With "sounds and tones", are you ? If so, his claims go silent in a heartbeat (and you hear the sounds of crickets), when you invite him out to the nearest blighted urban park. And say "show me how much gold you can get, while passing any amount of aluminum". And if you ask him for ratios of gold vs aluminum when his supposed "art of differentiation" is applied: It becomes immediately apparent that he's just doing random odds. Or old-fashioned ring enhancement strategy. And is NOT "telling aluminum apart from gold". Did you mean that guy ? I know of no one in CA using the TDI for turf . And when you say "successful", are you talking about gold jewelry ? If so, sure, you can't beat a TDI for ability @ low conductors. But ... heck ... since when did ANY machine lack for low conductors in junky turf ? You can turn down the disc. knob on ANY machine, and "fill your apron" full of low conductors , non-stop, in CA parks. Or did you mean "successful" as in deep old silver ? If so, I know of no one in CA who is "successful with the TDI" for that. If you know who this fellow is, I would love to meet and compare over flagged signals with him.

I'm not disputing your experience. In concluding that your TDI, with the proper ears and training, can spank a normal coin-machine in turf. I'm just saying that: I'd love to see it in actual action. To see in action (versus claims) is typically when ANY of us "switches machines", eh ? Ie.: When you see your buddy spank you, then you "perk up" and take note, eh ? And if he shows you a flagged signal that you have to admit "I wouldn't have heard". And then he proceeds to dig a barber or seated at a foot, then .... no more talk or claims. Then there's actual in-field-comparisons. And this "in-field-comparisons" is what has driven-the-market for 60+ yrs. BFO to TR all-metal. TR all-metal to TR disc. TR disc. to motion disc. and so forth, up-to-the-present. Each time/evolution, if/when you talk to the old-timers, it is invariably that they saw the limitations of their own gear, with actual in-field-results. Not just claims, but actual side-by-side results. For example : When the Explorers (back in the XS and II days ~20 yrs. ago) were still unheard of in CA, a particular fellow was posting his show & tell from certain hammered parks, in his particular city. That I happened to know, for a fact, were hammered. Such that I'd knock myself silly to get another few wheaties or a silver there. Yet he'd routinely post "3 silver dimes and a dozen wheaties". HHhhmmmm. You can bet several of us, uh.... "took note". We were able to get the guy to agree to meet us in a certain park . Where silver *starts* at 8" (7" or less is typically clad). And the results were earth-shattering: He could show us signals (to our Whites, Fishers, etc...) that we had to admit we would not have heard (or couldn't have made a proper "call" over). Yet he was getting them with ease, and correctly "calling" them time after time . You can bet that within 3 or 4 short years, the ONLY thing you saw being swung in CA, was Minelab. Doh ! If someone sees a claim like this, and goes to buy his own pulse and rush to the urban blighted park, he might fail and hate it. But guess what ? The proponents would merely say : "You didn't practice long enough". Or "You didn't have it set right", etc..... See ? So it's NEVER conclusive for someone to try it on their own and say "this sucks". The better way is to get two acknowledged pro's, and let them do some flagged testing. And yes, there's ways to prevent bias in such tests (the subject of another post). There was a fellow here at the beach swinging a TDI on an eroded beach zone, that was RIDDLED with iron. And ... granted, he no doubt got deep. And ... granted, he could no doubt get tinsel thin chains. And .... granted, he could no doubt cut nasty black sand. Yet at the end of each day, we had 3x or 4x his goodie-count. By the end of that erosion episode, we spotted him sporting a conventional machine. But I suppose the push-back would be to say he was doing it wrong, or needed more practice, right ?

On the contrary, I know-for-a-fact that a GPX 5000 can hit coins deeper than any standard discriminator coin/relic machine can. Heck, they can get a coin to 1.5 ft. with ease. Right ? Versus a standard discriminator that starts to waffle on dimes over 8 or 9" deep. And starts to waffle on quarters at 10" deep, etc.... No dispute there ! If simple "balls to the walls depth" were the issue-at-hand, then what you are saying is true. No questions asked. Ok, then why aren't we seeing guys take the GPX 5000 to junky urban turfed parks and digging those deeper silver coins ? Why were the guys I saw with GPX 5000 "nowhere to be found" at the iron-ridden cellar hole locations in the VA hunt ? And if you are not advocating the PI as a park machine that can spank a standard machine, then I stand corrected. Someone on this thread made the claim. I thought you were confirming it. If not, I stand corrected.

Sure. Yes. And so the claim goes on to exist as just that : A claim. 😕 It Might be true, it might not. Because the claimant says just what you're saying: "I've got nothing to prove". 🙄 But the moment any "claim" goes to be shown as meritorious (in actual field tests by known aces in-those-fields), then: The world rushes to avail themselves of the new and proven mousetraps. They can not argue with side-by-side flagged testing results. It's no longer "just a claim" now. And such has been the case of all the leaps of tech. in md'ing that we've seen in our mutual decades . When the older school folk see their #sses get kicked, then : News spreads like wildfire . And everyone else rushes to avail themselves of the better mousetraps. But if there is never any such tests going on, then alas: These steps never come to fruition 😞 And when I read your above quote, I couldn't help but wonder "where have I heard that come-back-line before ?". 🤔 Then I remembered : It was with dowsing: The same fall-back line occurs from the dowser-faithful: When the dowser is challenged to "show me" and "let's test it" and "let's compare", then: His fall-back lines are identical. That's not to say that the claimant's claims aren't true and meritorious ! It's just that: You have to wonder why they aren't "chomping at the bit" to show the silly-old-schoolers that it can indeed be done. I understand that you're busy, you're hours away, you don't care, etc.... I get it . But it's odd that, if this is true, that *someone*, *somewhere* (even if not you), isn't simply introducing this new and better mousetrap to the world. Instead, it's exactly the opposite : Those that have tried to insist it can work to outpace standard machines in all relic and park-turf scenarios, generally disappear and are never heard from again, the moment a nail-ridden or trash-ridden location presents itself. Perhaps these persons simply didn't "practice long enough" or "didn't have their settings done correctly" or "didn't have the right machine", etc..... Ok, sure . But then : you gotta wonder.

Steve, one of these days let's meet in an appointed Sacramento park . That's only a few hours drive from both you and me. And let's do some turf hunting : You with a pulse, and me with a standard machine. Would LOVE to see the results. Ok ? 🧐

Thanx for answering all that. If you ever make your way out to CA, I would LOVE to do some side-by-side flag-testing.

Glenn, It's no secret that the TDI can be made to ID nails (down to a certain depth anyhow), and also discern high vs low conductors. HOWEVER : The moment anyone goes to avail himself of these settings-tricks, is the moment that his depth is now reduced to that of normal standard machines. Right ? When I toyed with the TDI, I chose a particular school yard where I knew that some more deep wheatie/silver type signals existed. I went out and flagged some suspected deep wheat/silver type signals with my Exp. II. And then proceeded with all the "tricks" on the TDI, over these flagged signals. And also over nearby flagged *obvious* foil, tabs, iron, etc... which I also flagged and tested with both machines and settings. Mind you : With my Exp. II, I can generally, reliably, get 8 or even up to 9" on a penny/dime type object (in this particular turf that's not too junky). I came away with the conclusion that the moment I set the TDI to work like a normal discriminating machine (cherry picking for deep silver) is the moment that I might as well use a standard machine. Not to mention the fact that the TDI is a SQUIRRELLY son of a gun. Very annoying fishy audio. So do tell: In your opinion, do you think that you can spank the user of a normal standard machine, with your TDI, in regular park-turf hunting ? If the objective is deeper older coins (and not simply strip-mining clad, blah blah) ?

Chris, one thing you might dislike, on the Deus (if you're accustomed to other machines), is that the Deus will "ring the bells of Notre Dame" over things like rusty crown caps, domino sized portions of flat-tin, large rusty bolts , etc.... Whereas other machines easily reject such iron, right ? After much hair-pulling and digging 1000 such cr*p items, I have come to understand what tones a person *could* pass, if they wanted to cut down on the iron-falses. HOWEVER, I am NOT convinced of this : If a person is getting the Deus because it's the "cat's meow in seeing through iron-masking", then : How can he be sure that the iron that he's "passing" isn't masking a goodie below it ? In other words, the moment you begin to "be picky" and only dig the signals that are for-sure a conductive target, then : It seems to me that that means you had a "clear line of sight" to that conductive target. Such that it had the right audio clues, eh ? Well gee, if we all had to wait till we had a "clear line of site" to a target, then ... Gee, even my explorer will likewise get a "nice-clean signal" on targets to which aren't masked. So what's the point of even switching then ? Aaarrghhh. So to that extent, I'm a little frustrated with this. So thus far, I'm only using it for specialized occasions (extreme relicky pursuits), where I'm game to dig a bunch of iron-falses . It's just the "cost to pay" to not miss stuff I guess. And it's kind of site-specific : If the location was in play up to the 1920s (the throw-away era of rusty soldered can tops, flat tin, etc....), then it can be very punishing. Yet at another site I hit (which was vacated by 1850-ish), then very little of these type iron items exist, in the first place. Anyhow, if you need any coaching , I'll convey what I've learned, the settings, etc...

I'll be a sherpa for you. To carry your tools, dig your holes, etc.... My sherpa rates are very reasonable. Ok ? 😘

Here is where the devil is in the details, if you ask me . I have heard many many pulse users say such a thing. That they can tell the nails (yes, even bent ones) by a "slightly different sound", blah blah. But when we see these guys show up on nail-riddled beaches, they last all of 20 minutes. And then we have the beach all to ourselves again 😕

GB : I know there are some coin/relic guys who will try to use those balls-to-the-walls pulse machines , for coins/relics. Since, sure, you can "get a coin to 1.5 ft. deep", blah blah. I saw a few of them guys at the Virginia relic shootout a few years ago. And asked them "Don't nails give you fits ?" They only gave rambling feeble replies. Lo & behold, at a few cellar-home antebellum home sites (which were a THICK carpet of nails), those guys were nowhere to be found. They steered FAR from any such area. Meanwhile, guys with standard machines (discriminators) were able to go fish some coins and relics from the mess. So I can't see the sense. Unless you're nugget hunting, or hunting the beach (where you're not likely to have ghost-townsy-conditions ), or some such exception. And as far as what kac says: Yes there's some "tricks" you can use to ID nails of some of those type machines. But guess what ? The moment you off-tune and start using those tricks, you can now kiss that fabled depth goodbye. You are left with no-more depth than a standard coin machine. So why bother ? Any iron-ID trick on those will only work for the top 6 or 8" or whatever (at best) . Everything beyond that starts to sound the same.