Tom_in_CA

This is sick. Just plain sick. I went on a 2-day trek, only to come back with a sickly V nickel. And you go and find a bust dime ! That's it, I'm planting a GPS device on your vehicle for sure now ! 😜

I love all the "amens" and "atteboys". But what strikes me as odd, is that some md'rs (not on this forum per se) will KNOCK THEMSELVES SILLY fretting over the nuances of whether a shovel is "metal or plastic". Or whether their digging is construed as "probing" vs "digging" (since, gasp, they found some prohibition about "dig"). And all such worrying about whether or not they're technically obeying all laws. Yet when you show them that they're disobeying their state's L&F laws, they READILY chuckle and say "too bad" or "who really cares" or "so what" . Why aren't they equally as worried and fretting about these laws, versus some silly ancillary language that *could* apply to hunting their local sandbox ? Strange.

Well at the current price of silver, let's hope you make it !

Good show ! Good pix. Love that beach-kissed charcoal grey silver 🙂

Glenn: Nice report !

Yeah, I've seen that , where someone who's lost a ring, wises up to the fact that there's geographic specific FB md'ing pages. And posting their plea for help. And most of us md'rs like to put our hobby to use, and don't mind helping. Posse hunting is fun, so ... no harm there. But I've never heard of the reverse scenario, where they lurk to see if someone posts show & tell, and them swoop in and say "that's mine". It's theoretically possible. But I just have never seen it happen. If anyone knows of a case of this "that's mine" scenario, let us know.

This has been mused many many times on many threads on md'ing forums. The supposed fear that if you post a pix of your bragging rights ring, then: What's to stop someone from saying "That's mine" ? After all, they now have a picture to describe, and a general location, and so forth. Your question is only a slight twist on that, in that you're asking about LEGITIMATE true L&F (where it truly IS the persons who is ID'ing it). Either way, the answer is : No. This has not been an issue. I have never heard of anyone lurking on forums (whether nefariously, or truly looking for their legit. lost ring), and then making a claim. Because if this were a threat, then it's certainly not stacking up to reality. Because a quick look down any md'ing forum's show & tell sections , and you see NO SHORTAGE of us md'rs posting our show & tell rings. Right ? And .... seriously now .... can anyone ever recall any of them that resulted in someone hopping on the forum and saying "That's mine" ? I can't recall any incidents of this. If someone can, please let us know. But in the absence of any cases, I'd say this is an un-founded fear. So go ahead and post away ! 😅

I have heard the claim that ARPA exempts coins. But not on the basis that you cite here. Ie.: that "because it's still legal tender...". That's a new one that I hadn't heard before. Very interesting. The typical notion that "coins and bullets are exempted", is there's verbiage that alludes to something like that. HOWEVER, I do not think that it follows through (if some archie wanted to make a stink). Because, in context of where they're pulling that from, the "exempted" coins and bullets are : Those that are not artifacts . Or something like that. In other words, the "coins and bullets that are exempted" are going to be : Those that are less than 50 yrs. old. Doh ! Here's the bottom line in all of this : NONE OF US wants to get into the debate of semantics, in the first place. Thus I will simply make sure I'm detecting when there's no prying eyes or busy bodies in the first place. And ... yes ... I never find old coins. Do you ? 🤔

Good post. "Cultural heritage" issues are always a part of any fed. or state land. So that, even if some form of federal or state land has no laws that forbid md'ing, yet you're right: It's going to be with the caveat that: As long as the items you're finding don't bump into cultural heritage issues. For example: One time I was detecting a NFS campground in the Sierra Nevadas, that dated back to the CCC days (1930s). A ranger truck *just happened* to drive past me. He stopped, rolled down his window, and began to tell me : "You can't metal detect". But after some casual conversation, he changed his tune and said : "You can detect, but if you find any coins 50 yrs. old or older, you need to turn them in to the ranger station" (that was 25+ miles away, blah blah). I replied "Ok". He left, and I continued detecting. And ... of course.... I did not find that 1920s walking half that day, nor the wheaties 🙄 State parks also invariably have some type of wording for cultural heritage, even when not *specifically* forbidding md'ing. And not sure about other counties, by my county (Monterey County) does have some boiler plate verbiage for our county parks. Not sure about city parks in CA. I highly doubt they go to the trouble. But if they do, it's simply "cut & paste" from other entities, and I highly doubt they *really* care if someone finds a 51 yr. old coin. In this hobby, it's no longer a matter of "Know and obey all laws". It's actually a matter of applying the "Does anyone really care ?" test of things. And "don't swat hornet's nests by asking silly questions" test of things. Yet, for some reason, some skittish md'rs will "fret themselves silly" as to whether or not a screwdriver constitutes "deface" or "dig", blah blah. If those persons were alerted to the myriad of things that *could* be construed to apply to their actions (L&F, disturbing earthworms, cultural heritage, alter deface, harvest/remove, etc...) they would immediately drop this hobby, and take up needlepoint.

What if the value of the 1800s coin exceeds the value cutoff mark for your state's L&F laws ? I know that some people will say that if the dime says "10c" on there, that the value is therefore 10c, right ? But consider this true story : There was a true story, from my area, where a nerdy loaner 4th grader kid took his dad's coin collection to school, for show & tell day (without his dad's knowledge or permission). And during recess, the loaner kid began to pass out the coins to the school kids, to "make friends". And those kids (who probably thought they were just play money), promptly went out into the school yard and lost most of them. A few months later, imagine the surprise of a local md'r, who was only plying the sandbox, at this modern school, for loose change, began to find coins from the 1800s ! After finding 4 or 5 such bust halves, trade dollars, etc...., He rationalized "perhaps they came in with the sand, since, no doubt, the sand comes from the beach" (this school was only a few miles from the beach). One day, after he and his buddy had gotten up to 8 or 10 such coins, an after school janitor spotted one of them out there. The janitor came out to tell them "Keep your eyes open for any super old coins, and let me know if you find any". When the md'r went to ask him : "Why ? What's up ?", the janitor told the md'r the story of the nerdy 4th grader. Ok, so you tell me : In-lieu of the CA L&F laws, do those coins belong to the lucky md'r ? Or to the dad whose coin collection they came out of ? If you were the dad, which side of this would you come down on ? And while you may think "well .... that's an exception, since the entire story had been made known to the md'r", then : What if the md'r had never met the janitor ? And the dad spotted his coins being sold on ebay. Who owns them know ? Was the md'r in violation of L&F laws, if he hadn't met the janitor ? Obviously the bust half is worth over $100, not .50c Interesting legal issues ! Not that any of us are going to change our behaviors, but .... interesting ramifications.

Technically, if the ring or piece of jewelry meets the cutoff valuation criteria for your state of Illinois L&F laws , then your friend is in violation. The law makes no provision for you to do your own repatriation attempt. It will merely say to turn it in to the police.

That's an interesting question. I suppose the test would have to done with a ring that has unique markings. And .... I wonder what would happen if they said "someone claimed it", and then I "sprung the trap" and told them it was just a made up story to test their honesty. Very interesting question.

Kac : I speculated that notion on a thread, for-this-topic before. And someone challenged that, saying : That I was presuming that the police are corrupt. They took offense to the notion, that a desk clerk at a police station could stoop so low. Ie.: that I was taking a very negative view of my fellow man. I assured him that I have a VERY HIGH view of LEO's. And that, yes, they're just normal dudes like us, and aren't necessarily corrupt. But that this scenario is a little bit different : Because .... think of it : That ring was NEVER YOURS IN THE FIRST PLACE ! You only "found" it. It's not yours. So how have you been harmed ?? You turned it in to the police knowing FULL WELL it might be claimed. And the police are under no obligation to tell you who claimed the ring. D/t privacy law issues. And odds are, that the vast majority of things being turned over to the police L&F , have no one coming back in 30 days to claim them. The evidence for this is that there are periodic police auctions, where this type stuff just gets auctioned off. So I'll bet that the cops are probably just assuming that you or I are probably not coming back in, in 30 days, to get it. So if the desk clerk calls his cousin Joey at the 29th day, and says : "Hey Joey, do you want a nice gold Rolex ? Just come down to the station and describe a Rolex with these features..." then, to a twisted way of thinking: In their minds, no one's been harmed. YES IT'S STILL WRONG, but ... not in the same fashion as taking your Rolex off of your nightstand, for example. Someone can rationalize that ... no one (certainly not you, since it was never yours in the first place), has been harmed. I've often thought about testing the theory, by taking my own wedding ring down to the police, and then coming back 30 days later to see if they still have it.

Haha, well .... sure .... your conscience might be smoothed knowing that the person hasn't suffered a loss (if indeed it was insured). HOWEVER : When an insurance Co. pays out to a policy holder, then , if the ring surfaces somewhere, then *technically* the ring now belongs to the insurance Co. Thus .... can you *really* sleep better at night ? 😘

Erik, I have studied this topic in-depth. It's an intriguing dilemma for an md'r who wants to "obey all laws". Basically it boils down to this : All 50 states have lost & found laws. They were born out of wandering cattle laws of the 1800s. The wording varies from state to state, but there is always a dollar valuation cutoff . So in CA, for instance, if you find something worth $100 or more, you are required to turn it into the police station. If no one claims it within 30 days, then you can come claim it. And if the police will run a "found" ad in a local newspaper. If you intend to claim the item, then you must pay the cost of publication for that classified ad. Other states might charge you a 'storage & handling' fee if you intend to come back for it in 30 days. The law makes no provision for how long YOU think an object was lost for. Ie.: even if you strongly suspect the ring has been lost for 100 yrs, makes no difference to the law. Because, otherwise .... gee .... everyone would twist it and say "Shucks, looks like this has been here a long time". And would simply flaunt the law. Also the law makes no provision for YOU to try your own repatriation attempt @ looking for the owner. Eg.: Pinning a note to a telephone poll, or using the CL lost & found section. It simply says to turn it in to the police. The law also doesn't say how the $100 valuation is arrived at. Ie.: Is this the intrinsic melt value ? If so, do you go by pawn shop offers ? Or a refiner who's paying 95% of spot ? Or do you go by the value when new in the jewelry store case ? For example: Is an I-phone worth $500, since that's what someone pays to get one ? Or is only worth .30c of intrinsic melt value (a bit of silicone, copper, plastic, etc...) ? So I asked a lawyer this question, of how to value an item, to see if it triggers the state's L&F laws. He thought for a moment and said: "Turn it in to the police, and let THEM decide how they want to value it". Doh ! Needless to say, no md'rs are keeping this law. A quick look at any md'ing forum's show & tell section, shows no shortage of md'rs posting their bragging rights beach rings, eh ? Ok, how many of them do you think "ran to the police station to turn them in " ? And it must not be a big deal to law enforcement either. Because otherwise they could simply monitor our forums, and go around busting people, eh ? But obviously, they're not. Thus basically : Do you want the technical legal answer ? Or do you want the realistic answer ? Do you want to be fully law-abiding ? Or are you going to "wink wink no-one-cares" on this particular one ? 🤪

What do you think is the advantage over the Deus ? Ie.: Goes deeper ? Un-masks around/through iron better ? Or ... ?

Chris, you are just knocking them out of the ball-park lately. And those buckles have become the "cat's meow" of desired/collectible finds , in collector circles lately. They, & the gun, are just dripping with history and are so cool to find. Congratz !

If that's the accurate ID, then .... must be a souvenir pocket piece modern loss. I doubt it's a period piece. Hey, a guy in Monterey, CA , during an old-town demolition scrape project, found a Roman coin that he got dated to something like 100 AD. He assumed it was probably brought back to the USA, as a souvenir, by a returning soldier. Believe it or not, coin-collecting (and the habit of picking up souvenirs) is not a new trait. People have gathered nostalgic nicknacks, since time immortal. As as odd as it sounds, it's possible that they then get lost at some fumblefingers location somewhere else.

I've read lots of show & tell posts, coming from Poland. So it's can't be illegal there. As in ... some sort of "border to border" law. So whatever you're alluding to must be someone who was in a distinct singular off-limits place. Not that "all md'ing in Poland is a no-no" There's been attempts made (you can find them on the net) to create compendiums for all the countries of Europe. Where you can simply look up any country there in Alphabetic order. Genius idea, eh ? But oddly, even those countries with "dire sounding verbiage", have hobbyists. Even dealers in the major cities, etc.... Being the devil's advocate, I asked one of the guys, from one of those countries with "dire sounding language", : "How do you do it ?" And I linked him to the web-link. He said that what those links/lists don't take into account, is that whatever laws they're citing are for public land. And have no bearing on private land. So farmer Bob can do WHATEVER THE HECK HE WANTS on his own land. Or .... quite frankly, ... the guy told me that they're typically so-far back in the forests, that .... well .... there's no one around to care, in the first place. 🙄 An example would be like this : If you were to call some USA bureaucrats and archies here, and ask "Is it ok to metal detect in the USA ? ", you might get told "no". Because perhaps they're couching their answer in terms of ARPA (which, BTW, only applies to fed land. Not "all public land"). So you might, in fact, find someone here who thinks all md'ing in the USA is a no-no. See ? It just depends on who you ask, what they envision, and how you phrase the question. Thus I put little stock into these compendiums. Sometimes you have to read between the lines. And the rare flukes of someone getting roughed up, can be isolated flukes of someone who wasn't practicing an ounce of common sense.

Oh, golly, are you saying that's stealing the thunder from underneath the merc. dime I just found ? 🧐

GB-amateur , as the others have said: Excellent post ! It is a common observation that gold-nugget hunting is more profitable. From a daily "melt value" perspective (given a skilled hunter, in each venue, that knows what he's doing). And let's be honest : Even if you factor in key-date old coins, that the odds are: It's rare that any old seated coin (even the key date S and CC mints !) will merit you $1k. And a cool collectible buckle or button might net you $1k. And so forth. Contrast to the guys who have strictly drifted to gold nugget md'ing: It can have much higher dollar values for their accumulative value. Than ANY coin/relic guy could have had in the same period. This is why many Sacramento area hunters, back when the nugget-specialty niche of the hobby first took off, tended to "leave coins/relics behind", and focused STRICTLY on nuggets forever more thereafter. It became an addiction unto itself. I know we can debate: "What about the coins that were found, that were worth $10k ?" Well , gee, so too : "What about the nuggets that were found that were worth $10k ?" But at the end of the day, we all can't deny that if money were the only driving factor, and skill-levels-were-accounted for, then: Nuggets seem to be more profitable. HOWEVER, as Raphis-Dan and others point out, there is NO substitution for the thrill of the history (strategy, skill, story, etc...) that the old coin or relic presents. A nugget is strictly a monetary object. But a coin or relic holds a story. Not sure if that's making any sense. This is all-so-timely for me. Since: My wife and I are looking at taking our central coast insane real estate market nest egg, (since I'm not on the ugly side of 60), and thinking of G.R. area real estate living. And as such, I'm pondering learning the nugget hunting aspect/side of our hobby. Great post GB-amateur !

Great post & great pix as usual. And I love how you are sure to post the junk pix as well. Just so it's not like the bass-fishing channel, where "every cast is a lunker" 😆 To show the good, the bad, and the ugly. You worked for your rewards 🙂

Nice.

Us west coast guys are green with envy about your east coast colonials and LC's. That's for sure. Our consolation is we have a fighting chance at a gold coin, and ... yes .... a high percentage of S mints. Was just doing a country picnic site a few weeks ago, and got a 1901 quarter. My buddies and thought "we're about to have a heart-attack", since the 1901 s quarter is a BIG BUCKS quarter. And seeing as how we were only an hour from SF, I was already counting my chickens before they were hatched. Alas, it was only an "O" mint. AAaarrggghhhh When we're in a spot giving up 1910, '11, '12, '13, '14, & '15 wheaties, they are almost invariably all S mints.

School-of-nox : The answer to this is simple : We refuse to let our key date S mint coins cross over the Mississippi. Tsk tsk. Occasionally one slips over . If that happens, kindly mail it back to me 😘 And yes, gold coins are most often always found in the western states. If you want to start another post on that, there's been several reasons why this phenomenon exists, that we can discuss. But I know lot of guys here with a gold coin to their name. Some of which rarely find seateds, never find reales, etc.... Ie.: they're "tame" hunters. And I know several other guys with two, three, or four gold coins so far here. And a couple with 10 or more gold coins (although that's rare). Contrast to the EAST coast, where there are HARDCORE HUNTERS (with scores of LCs, colonials, reales, seateds, busts, etc...) yet have NEVER found a gold coin. Or have found only 1, etc....