jasong

Right, I'm not being literal in any sense. Just pointing out some issues of greater or lesser importance in mood that is a bit more uplifting since it's been pretty somber around here lately.

Let's just be glad I didn't photoshop the first thing I had in mind...the....erm...uh..."prophylactically" inspired names of a couple GPX timings. I'm dying to post another one but after further review I'm fairly certain only Wyomingites/Texans would understand it. I'm sure the design will grow on me, but all I can think of when I look at it is....

I'm impressed with the Doc's GPZ cover too, I'd recommend them.

Nice job, gotta love that refreshing feeling when it's yellow and not gray in the scoop!

But just because all the other detector manufacturers are still stuck in the 70's (in more ways than one, just my opinion) doesn't mean we shouldn't hold Minelab accountable. Codan is a modern, multinational, diversified corporation, and consumer detectors make up the largest portion of their business IIRC according to their profit statement. I would bet that if they designed a product for the military or corporate use that they would respond quickly and clearly to product issues, why not consumers? Today, the inescapable fact is that consumer oriented business is driven largely by online consumer reviews. In the tech world specifically, products often live or die by it's consumer reviews. A lot of people (myself included) first found your posts on the AK forum while looking for metal detector reviews, and continue to look for your input on newer detectors today just as much if not more than 10 years ago. The power of this phenomena I think is also demonstrated in how many people are using the Nokta products in the gold world after your positive reviews. It's common to see corporations much, much larger than Codan do triage on their products after critical reviews on social media, in fact now most large companies have entire divisions dedicated to just such aspects of business. We also now know Minelab has at least one person that browses these websites (re: Lisle thread) as part of their job. Yet we have heard only crickets... As an aside, I don't follow White's much, but I do remember reading a lot of criticism about the TDI when it was released. If more people used the ATX I'm guessing we'd hear more about it too...but look at your detector polls...only a few people who post to the US forums are using them. It's pretty clear from the polls we are mainly ML users here and whites/garrett/etc as secondary or tertiary uses (on average) so its pretty reasonable to expect a lot of critical input on Minelabs here versus other products. But you are right, price is an obvious factor as well: Whites TDI SL: $1189 Garrett ATX (incl extra larger coil, soft case and hardshell travel case): $2546 The GPZ is priced almost an entire magnitude higher than it's only other two competitors. It basically is an entire magnitude higher than the TDI. It's not unreasonable for people to expect more when the price difference is that large. I mean apples to apples lets put that in perspective, that's like a Kia for $11k and a top of the line, flawlessly engineered BMW i7 super-luxury class sports car for $100k. You can definitely bet the i7 is held to much (much, much) higher standards then the little Kia I might buy for my 15 year old son to learn how to drive with. Same way a $300 generic laptop is not held to the same standards as a $3000 Alienware gaming or workstation laptop.

Plastic D9's for everyone then?

I think that geometry is pretty close to ideal, but it's pretty close to the Supersede geometry, might need some IP tweaking? Dunno, def not my department there. One thing I wonder about, with 12GA steel, do you think there would be a chance the flat blade part of the scoop might get bent? Would it be better slightly shorter so less leverage if so? No idea from pictures without trying it out, just one thing I wondered about...? Edit again: also I seem to be about the only one really into this type of design other than Flak who first posted the Supersede looking for comments on it, unless others are just not commenting. So maybe it's just me, I don't want to lead you into production costs for a pick no one wants. For me personally I find this style to be ideal...everyone varies though.

Looks pretty sweet to me. If the changeable blade thing is BS then that general geometry in one piece permanent blade is something I'd be interested in personally. Edit: with a magnet holder on the scoop.

I'd go with chalcopyrite but hard to tell from pics. Does it smell like sulfur when you cut it or scratch it? If it was gold, pieces that big wouldn't crush up, it'd pancake out and flatten and form fairly large pieces. If it all crushed up then it's probably not gold. But as Steve said, there might very well be gold in the ore. Even the presence of sulfides in the same rock doesn't mean that some of the ore might not be free milling too.

There are some truly unique crystalline pieces there all gathered into one post, fun to look at even if a person isn't planning on entering.

Ivan, If you can get them to ~$100-125ish and make a few improvements which I'll list below I think they'd sell decently. At least I'd definitely be interested in trying one. $165 AUD is like $117USD and the large one I see for sale for $200AUD which is like $142 if I remember it right. The one thing the Supersede is missing is a magnet slot, if it was welded forward of the front scoop nuts its seems like it'd take most of the wear and that's about where it seems they are most handy anyways, more towards the top of the handle like some picks do is not as useful IMO. Tops of my picks above the handle have the least wear in general so I wonder how much wear those bolts would actually get...but if there was a problem with the design seems like that would be it. Also, I think the pick end is too long on the large pick, but I haven't tried one so I can't say for certain. But the biggest thing for me is proper balance and not being too so heavy as to leave bruises where it sits on my shoulder bone as the large Apex does if I go more than 5 or 6 days in a row. A perfect weight I think is halfway between the Hermit Pick head and the large Apex pick head. 35" handle IMO is too long. It's doable for me at 6ft tall to belt mount (my Hermit handle is 34" and I like it), but anyone shorter would have issues with walking probably. 32" handle I think is a perfect "large" size handle one size fits all but mabe I'm off there since not many others gave handle length input. I don't care for anything shorter myself so I couldn't make a good recommendation for the small/medium size. Also, a consideration may be to use acorn nuts on the bolt ends so that the threads stay protected. It would require more accurate bolt length sizing though. Just don't make any geometry modifications that make it dangerous or difficult to belt mount like the Hermit Pick. I like how the side of the scoop is bent 90 degrees so it's not going to dig into my hip and stab me if I fall or bloody me up after days of digging into my side as I walk. Or or or, how about this, make one, send me a prototype, and I'll post some pics of the gold I find with it on the forum and a review as free advertising for you.

7000, 4500, GB2

Very nice, I think you should take that catchy title and write the book yourself Strick!

I'm curious how much they weigh? Sounds minor, but a couple extra ounces can make a noticable difference over thousands of swings a day. I'll probably get one on my way through Vegas at Doc's in a month or so if no one has tried one by then.

If you hike out a ways then a battery booster is a good thing to pack with you, or like I do keep a small 2 hour recharger on my keychain. They work for phones, gps, etc. I don't really have any brand recommendations since mine was a $10 keychain thing I got at a gas station and it just does the job, but I've been thinking about getting one of the larger capacity boosters to just keep in the pack all the time. It's come in handy quite a bit, sometimes you just need another hour of juice on the gps or some time with the phone flashlight to get the last mile back, etc.

Tortuga, I tried electrical tape at first to increase the diameter a bit and it was too thick to get the shaft back in. I tried duct taping it on the outside but that only works for about half a day. I'll be back out in the field again soon, will let you know if I run across anything that works, let me know if you find something too. On another 7000 note, I break 2 or 3 nylon bolts a year on my GPX. I keep a little bag of them in my pack. Does anyone know if they sell replacement uh...thingmajigs...to hold the 7000 coil to the lower shaft? I wouldn't mind having at least one in my pack just in case because that would suck to have to wait however many weeks or months to get one shipped while out in the field.

If I take the middle carbon fiber shaft out there is often a powdery substance on it where the clamp holds the shaft. I think it's dust from either the clamp or the shaft being ground down from the twisting. It slowly gets easier and easier for the twist to happen and I think that is why - a thousandth of a mm every week or so getting ground off and decreasing the diameter of the shaft. When I first got my detector it seemed like I was correcting the twist 1 or 2 times a day, now it's maybe every 10 minutes. So, hopefully this post here can be used as reference that the problem existed at least for some of us basically out of the box. Because I have a feeling that eventually it'll get worn down enough that the shaft will not be held in at all, and it'll probably happen past my warranty phase as luck generally goes. So it's good to get it documented. Looks like from that presentation that they've done most their expected sales of the 7000 in Australia and the US and now they are concentrating on Africa. The engineering costs were not too out of this world from their graphs, and considering you can build entire computers on palm sized boards for $20 now I don't think the materials costs are much of the $10k equation either. Sounds like your explanation is probably right Rick.

Thanks Rob for the clarification. Maybe we'll still see one in the future. Sorry Klunker, I can't hear you over the sound of the ocean breaking at the resort vacation I just bought with your my credit card number. Dang I thought I was the only one, I'm glad someone else experiences this too. Well, not glad - but I stopped mentioning this because people seemed to think I was crazy and would tell me there is no way for the shaft to twist since it's keyed. But it does!

I love the balance of the Hermit Pick and it's scooping ability especially in holes with a smaller diameter than a pick head width. But it'll stab ya in the hip in a bloody way if you fall on it when its on your belt or pack. I have to carry an Apex with the 7000, but it's head is slightly too heavy and throws the balance off. Also as mentioned the Hermit Pick has no spot for magnets so you gotta weld a holder on and also the shovel part breaks and needs rewelded often. I prefer a 32" handle but that obviously depends a lot on a person's height. If you can design a hybrid between the two that is safely belt mountable, doesn't break, has magnets included, scoops like a Hermit, and has perfect balance then please take my money!

Gerry's Detectors announced the battery thing last week, and I read it on a forum somewhere else the same day but I can't remember where it was, I think it was one of the Aussie forums though. Maybe one of the dealers that browse this forum can comment on the battery thing with more info... I'd love to have a larger battery if this info is wrong but it doesn't sound like it is. I also tried to buy just a regular sized (not the CTX one) replacement battery last week along with a shipment of other stuff I ordered and it was still not available though, so even regular ones appear to be only sparsely available every now and then depending on the dealer at this point still.

I'm guessing a lot of the griping has quieted down because it's pretty much all been said and it sure seems like Minelab just doesn't care about consumer input on this particular detector to me. But if criticism is invited, then this is my thing: Each subsequent GPX release produced a machine that completely replaced the previous one. Even though plenty of people still say their SD's, 3500's, and 4500's are every bit as good (or better) as a 5000 - I don't buy it. I've used (almost) every one of those machines and its just not true unless you are only detecting in one very specific set of conditions. If I own a 5000 and a 4500 there is no reason I'd keep swinging the 45. Objectively speaking, the 5000 is much more versatile and is a complete replacement for the 45, and the 45 is a complete replacement for the 4000/3500 and so on. The thing is, the 7000 at this point in time will not completely replace my GPX, and for that reason alone I don't think the controversy is over. Most people who spend enough time with the 7000 to become proficient with it I think will agree it is the most powerful detector on the market, but while each previous GPX model had an increase in versatility, the GPZ is to me less versatile than its predecessors. I can cover 3x more ground while patch hunting with the 45 and I spend probably 75% of my time doing that so I am still swinging the 45 constantly. I also don't have to treat my 45 like a princess. I seriously fear for my investment if i take the 7000 anywhere rough. Yes, I miss some gold that only the 7000 will hear, but $/time it's just not worth it unless I know I am in an area where most of the gold is specimen, crystalline, or extremely sharp/spongy edged. This makes up a small portion of my personal detecting regimen. The 7000 requires about a 50% slower sweep speed to be thorough, and even if I wanted to go faster the coil gives me tennis elbow if I swing to fast just from the sheer momentum of stopping and starting the sweep with the same gusto as you would do with say a 17x11 on a GPX. It's the side to side momentum and not the weight that is a problem for me. Most of the other problems have been discussed ad infinitum. For me the 3 big ones are that it's hugely, offensively overpriced, it's meant to be a professional tool but is built like a toy almost everywhere except the upper carbon fiber shaft, and to me it seems like ML released a fancy new flagship and then more or less abandoned it. I guess I have a 4th gripe too and that is that ML couldn't be bothered to include detector covers, coil covers, an extra battery, or a hardshell case on the most expensive consumer detector in the world - these are things you often find on even mid level products from detectors to tablets, but its not really a game changer like the first 3. On the abandoment though for instance, we've heard literally nothing about coils and it's 6 months in. They just announced they wouldn't produce a larger capacity battery. It's been near to completely impossible to get accesories. It appears the machine is designed for firmware updates, and its obvious to me that there are many areas they could easily improve with a simple update, yet nothing. Not even an announcement saying they are willing or able to pursue firmware updates. Hell, it took multiple months of pleading and grovelling just to get a $5 ferrite ring sent out to me, and only then because a country level manager got involved. Even if the 7000 was a complete replacement for the 5000 I'd be very hesistant to make it my only machine at this point. I honestly can't tell if ML even cares about it or the customers who chunked down the price of a good used backhoe to buy the freakin' thing. Speaking of backhoes, it's becoming increasingly difficult for me to justify keeping the 7000 in the back of my truck all the time when I quite literally just had the chance to buy one for the same price I paid for the GPZ. I think its a great detector. But it has problems, some of them ML appears to have no intention of ever addressing or solving. If a person is bit richer than myself it might not be a problem to keep it, but I have to make sure that any big expenditure I own is being used to full potential, so at this point my plan is to sell it after I finish cleaning out all my old patches. I will note here though, the one used machine I saw posted for sale on this forum and Rob's forum took something like 3-4 months to sell. And it was almost brand new and had something like 3 price reductions far under MSRP. When the 5000 came out there were tons of used machines being sold and they were selling quick for much higher prices. So I'm in the camp of not seeing anywhere close to the demand for this machine that the 4500 or 5000 had when they were new.

I use the Camelbak Mule Mil Tac (the one in Chris's post), it's almost built just for detecting, I love it. Even has built in D-rings at just the right place for a bungee clip. Used the regular Mule for 6 years and still have it, they are bulletproof. The pinpointer and speaker module clip on to the front straps for easy access. Easy to strap an Estwing geology hammer and radio on the back too. The cheaper bladders always tasted like chemicals or plastic no matter how much I washed them, never had that issue with the Camelbaks. The other nice thing about these is the weight of the water stabilizes the pack, the minelab harness moves up on me but maybe it's just my body shape.

If you are after deep, economic, macro sized iron ore deposits then look into magnetometers or magnetic gradiometers. Proton precession magnetometers are cheap and easy to build. Solid state magnetometers have also gotten very cheap and can be easily interfaced to a computer or an MCU board like the Raspberry Pi, better suited for building a gradiometer. Metal detectors are for very shallow applications and are best suited for native metals, not iron ore. I'm not fully understanding your goal since you are being intentionally vague, but it doesn't sound like you are looking for shallow high grade gold veins or nuggets in Minnesota, but maybe I'm wrong. Also: LRL's are total scams. I talked with Fitzgerald in 2005, he was more than happy to use all nature of gibberish and nonsense to explain his device and wanted me to come to his shop to take a look. Until I told him I was a student at the nearby university majoring in physics and looking for a project for my engineering EM grad class which required analysis of a device of our choosing. He rescinded his offer and quickly ended the phone call. Look at Carl Moreland's teardown reports on Geotech. Some are nothing more than a wire wrapped around a crystal connected to a dead 1970's CB circuit board, or similar. But as has been mentioned already, your chances of finding any sort of economic gold deposits in Minnesota are exceedingly small. The chances of you coming up with an idea that hasn't been used by billion $ multi-national corporations are also about the same, but hey I love an entrepreneurial and inventive spirit.

Righteous! Your confidence in the machine should bring many more now too.