Looking For Tips For Beach Detecting With Minelab Vanquish 540

[Glasswalker]

Sorry everyone for the delay in responding, had a busy few days. I'll do a big multi-quote and respond to everyone individually below:

On 1/16/2021 at 4:53 PM, Compass said:

I don't have a Vanquish but my Nox is fairly noisy in the wet sand so I usually opt for my pulse detectors at the beach. However, it sounds like you found a fair amount of targets so I think that you are learning how to pick out the good signals through the chatter. Don't forget that the beach conditions are always changing and even if you are doing everything right with the best equipment you may not find much on a particular hunt. 

I think it is great that your wife wants to try metal detecting and definitely worth encouraging for a number of reasons!

Thanks! Yeah I don't think the day/time was perfect, in reading a bit more about beach reading, I realized it's been calm lately so the wave action is mostly depositing sand, so the targets are all probably quite deep. That explains the number of light chirpy targets that were only "partially there" and the ones that were solid all being at max depth on the indicator (and the one I dug for ages to find and couldn't find)

Definitely eager to encourage her to get into it. Always good when you can share a hobby/interest. While she's expressed interest, it's not as strong as mine, so she hasn't felt up to going out the last couple times I wanted to go hunt. And she has less tolerance for "frustrating fiddly things" than I do, so probably best if I have a bit better handle on it before I try and teach her anyway, so I can smooth over some of the bumps. 

On 1/16/2021 at 5:09 PM, kac said:

If the machine is noisy it is the salt causing it to false out. Typically you need to ground balance the machine and work parallel to the shore line and re-ground balance as you get closer to the water. Often you may also need to drop the sensitivity so it doesn't pick up as much of the ground.

VLF's (induction balance) machines have a good advantage when working dry and damp sand because they have superior discrimination so you can dig less trash but they are sensitive to the salt as it too is a conductor.

Pulse induction machines are pretty much immune to the salt but lack discrimination. There are 2 kinds of Pi's ones without ground balance and ones with. Ones without you can only trim out some of the lower signals by changing the pulse delay and the machines have that as well as the ability to balance on a target range forcing targets below the balance to sound different than ones above based on conductivity.

With all that being said I would try dropping sensitivity a bit and maybe even discriminate out the lower end at iron to quiet it down some. I don't think you have a ground balance control on that machine so working parallel to the shore line it should settle down on it's own.

Hey, thanks for the feedback and suggestions! Yeah I'm pretty set on VLF for now, I may get a PI as a second detector at some point, but for now, discrimination is important to me I think. Multi-frequency seems to at least "help" with the difficult conditions, but not deal with it entirely, that's why I went with the Vanquish (hearing good things about salt beach performance of the Multi-IQ machines from Minelab, and couldn't really justify the jump straight to a Nox...)

Also in the mode I was in it discriminates out iron, but kept in mid-tones (gold/foil/etc). And as I said I'd go back over and re-check some targets (once I figured out there was something odd going on) with all-metal mode enabled which would then highlight if it was just iron impersonating a good target. ?

Yeah I think next time I'll definitely bring some example targets, bury them at various depths, and experiment with sensitivity. As long as I can find stuff at a reasonable depth, and get a strong signal, I can dial the sensitivity down a bunch, I suspect I'll be able to dial it down a couple more notches and still safely detect targets, but I was hesitant to do that on the previous visit because I was worried about missing valid targets (but I hadn't thought of bringing sample targets to the beach to bury and test) ?

On 1/16/2021 at 5:46 PM, Chase Goldman said:

Unfortunately, Vanquish has a fixed GB.  One of the main reasons I parted with it.  Made it impossible to use with no disc if there was anything other than neutral soil conditions and I presume it would have trouble in variable salt such as in ocean surf.

Your recommendations to dial down sensitivity and dial in some disc while working parallel to the shore is good advice for the OP.

Hey, thanks for the additional info. Yeah I wasn't sure if it was "fixed" or "automatic". It's unfortunate if it's "Fixed" as that's a bit less flexible, but it can be worked around. I know I've seen plenty of reviews/youtube videos of people successfully using the Vanquish on saltwater beaches, so it's certainly possible to work around the fixed balance, but just trying to see what levers we do have control over, and where I need to put them to optimize the experience (and then how much needs to be made up for with skill/brain power lol).

Yeah definitely think I'll try and find the "MVS" (Minimum Viable Sensitivity) for the beach, and that is perhaps variable depending on the beach, and where I'm at on the beach, but once I can get comfortable with determining quickly the minimum sensitivity, I think that's going to be pretty key.

Thanks!

On 1/16/2021 at 11:33 PM, palzynski said:

Hi ,

Concerning the balance, the Vanquish is front heavy with the V12 coil ( the V12 coil weights 440grams without coil cover ) .  I found a solution to this issue using the V10 which is an excellent coil , much lighter ( 360grams ) and almost as deep as the V12. Also I never use coil covers , this saves 60grams  this can help a little also ...  Front carbon shafts would also improve the balance 

Concerning the noisy audio, perhaps you could try your 540 inland in mild soil . Normally it should be quiet except on trashy sites,  if it is not the case may be there could be pb with the machine .. This would help to diag your pb anyway ... 

Hope that helps ... HH ...

Hey Palzynski, thanks, yeah I remember some of our prior discussions about adjusting balance, and I certainly see how pulling the balance back may help. Trying to focus on basic technique first though, and get that settled, then optimize from there (by doing things like possibly pulling weight back towards the elbow through one or more techniques as discussed in some other threads).

I did definitely test it inland, as I mentioned in my OP, that's why I was so surprised at how noisy it was on the beach. Inland, it was dead silent, and it found targets easily, and they were 100% clear when it was a target. There weren't so many "phantoms" floating around that I'm seeing on the beach. Definitely 2 very different experiences. Inland 2-3 notches below max sensitivity and I could swing 10-12 times with it entirely silent, then I'd hit a very clear loud tone, which had an ID. There seemed to be nothing in-between. But on the beach each swing almost had at least a tiny chirp or blip which came and went, and weren't consistant (I could swing over the exact same arc 10 times, and I'd get a blip on 5-6 of the swings but in totally different places). Sometimes I'd find a chirp which was in the same place, but it would not be consistant (if I swing over that exact space 10 times, it would chirp in that spot 4-8 times, but at varying intensities, and possibly with or without an ID etc... So the ratio of "noise" to "clear targets" was very high unfortunately.

Anyway I don't think there is anything wrong with the detector, I'm more just struggling past my inexperience trying to understand:

1. What is the detector telling me, and what does it actually mean
2. What dials should I be adjusting in which circumstances, etc... 

Just learning to use the machine better ?

On 1/17/2021 at 6:37 AM, kac said:

440grams isn't bad. If it puts too much presure on your elbow just shorten the shaft up a bit so it runs closer to your feet.

Yeah, that's some of the early feedback I got, is my technique appears to be not right (I'm definitely swinging way out in front, and should be swinging closer in for a more natural balance).

Also I opted not to use the strap on the arm brace... I have popeye arms (very large forearms) and the strap barely fits around, but it also makes it rather difficult to put the detector down etc... But after digging around for info on technique/ergonomics, it looks like using the strap to secure to the upper forearm is actually pretty critical to reducing arm strain (from gripping too tightly etc). So I'm working now on making a longer strap, which can easily be adjusted to be more comfortable, and easily opened/closed, and see if that helps ?

On 1/17/2021 at 7:55 AM, Joe D. said:

Glass,

   Very basic questions,  given your background, but I'll ask anyway!

   Is your cellphone opposite your detector on your body, or off, to prevent interference? And, if wearing shoes, are there any metal bits in them? Also, if using a coil cover, do you clean it out between hunts? 

   All minor points, but worth ruling out! Your issues sound like what my AT Pro used to do, when i tried using it at the beach! I could still find targets, but it was mentally exhausting to listening to all the extra sounds!

    The Equinox is my main beach detector now, but i did just pick up a Vanquish 540 from Steve, and have been dying to try it out! So all your testing and issues are actually helping me a great deal! (among others here)!

   I'm also hoping the coil tabs hold up better than the Nox's! I'm about to send in my third broken coil to ML for replacement!

   Good Luck solving your issues!??

 

The Cellphone was in a breast pocket for the first bit, then upon digging the giant hole, I nearly dropped the phone into the hole (which by then was filling with water) lol... Phone is waterproof, but decided to move it to a leg pocket after that, it was on the opposite side as the detector. That said I had the phone on and nearby in similar positions when detecting in my "test garden" and didn't experience any noise then, but entirely possible this time when it did it's noise cancel it landed on different frequencies, etc...

Yeah that's a good way to put it, "Mentally Exhausting"... While I was able to successfully identify and recover targets, the amount of mental effort to do a couple hours on the beach was a bit intense. Ideally I want to maximize the amount of "information filtering" that's done by the machine, to reduce that "mental load" ?

Glad to hear my adventures are useful for others learning the same detector. One of the reasons I try to do this type of learning as a "group exercise" and do it publicly, everyone can potentially benefit from the mistakes made, and lessons learned (hopefully).

Again I want to thank everyone for the feedback/input so-far. Really appreciate it, and please keep it coming if there are more comments/suggestions, they are always welcome!

I'll post another update to this thread, once I've done another round of beach hunting, "real life" has gotten in the way of hunting last several days, but hopefully I can get out and test some of these suggestions and lessons learned at the beach, and report back on progress ?

[kac]

The chirpy is the machine reading the ground as it is responding to the salt. It makes for finding targets exhausting as you have to sweep over the chirps and listen carefully for a repeatable something. Obvious shallow targets will come through but you will most likely miss the deep targets. Dropping sensitivity will help clear up the chirp and the thought of losing something because machine isn't deep enough is almost negated by the noise anyways.

Most vlf machines out there that have a beach mode should work fine and in particular ones that have lower frequency <14khz or multi frequency.

Targets are all over beaches mostly but only reachable where there has been erosion. Next step is to learn what to look for. I use aluminum and seashells as indicators of erosion and look for cuts. The lighter stuff moves more than the heavy.

[Glasswalker]

Hey @phrunt I just read the welcome post, since you're back now, I thought I'd ping you again on this thread, as your user appears to be all shiny and new ?

No rush of course, but if/when you get a chance to read what's been said so far, I'd value your suggestions/input.

Thanks!

And Welcome Back!

[Chuck M]

On 1/16/2021 at 5:33 AM, palzynski said:

Hi ,

Concerning the balance, the Vanquish is front heavy with the V12 coil ( the V12 coil weights 440grams without coil cover ) .  I found a solution to this issue using the V10 which is an excellent coil , much lighter ( 360grams ) and almost as deep as the V12. Also I never use coil covers , this saves 60grams  this can help a little also ...  Front carbon shafts would also improve the balance 

Concerning the noisy audio, perhaps you could try your 540 inland in mild soil . Normally it should be quiet except on trashy sites,  if it is not the case may be there could be pb with the machine .. This would help to diag your pb anyway ... 

Hope that helps ... HH ...

How do you like the 10" coil, is it quieter and did you lose much depth 

[palzynski]

For me the V10 is the best coil of the Vanquish coil set . Far lighter ,  better in iron trash than the V12 . Also far easier to center/pinpoint .  There is just a little loss of depth on big targets like big coins . From my tests , my Vanquish 540 hits a 10grams copper coin at 11 inches depth  with the V10 , instead of 12inches with the V12 ...  

For smaller targets the V10 goes as deep as the V12 and even a little deeper.  

Not to say that the V12 is a bad coil , it is an excellent coil but for a specific use, I use it when I look for big coins at depth in low mineralized and clean ( low iron trash ) areas ..

All this for inland hunting , I am not a beach hunter ...

 

[Joe D.]

Hey GW,

  I Finally got my 540 out on the beach for a couple hours! I hunted with the iron on! The reduced sound of the iron was hard to hear with the rough surf, but i noticed that the occasional one direction good beep, was also accompanied by a low iron beep if it was an iron target!

   I also got some falsing when the surf ran up at my feet! I will attribute that to fewer frequencies to handle the moving salt, etc...!  My Nox 800 doesn't do that, so it's easy for me to compare the two!

   Other that that, and the variable iron sound, it pretty much runs like my 800! Granted the 800 has much more flexibility for customization, and is waterproof (most of the time)!

   I have all three coils, but opted for the V12 this go around! They are all very light! I like the shafts not being round, except when i want to turn the coil to put into a detector bag! And i like how compact it closes up!

   One thing i don't like in it's design, is the battery cover!? ML could have done a better job, and at least designed a seal for moisture and air penetration! The two tabs that the battery cover has, that fits into the housing, are open!! Those holes on the housing lead directly to the circuit board; not good!  The salt air will eventually eat that circuit board up!! They should have at least molded those closed! I will probably be trying to remedy that with some silicone! But it would have been an easy design fix at the factory!

   I'm pretty happy with it so far, but it will still be a backup to my 800;  for land anyway! I don't have a good salt water backup yet! I'll post when i get out some more with it!??