Chase Goldman Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Mxt Sniper said: Will we be able to notch for hotrocks with the deus 2? I know the equinox notches very well on hot rocks. If i remember right, -12 down to -7 got rid of most all hot rocks, yet would retain good signal on a one grain nugget. 2 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said: No notching on Deus 2, Deus 1 or ORX in the Gold modes………..compared to the Equinox single digit notching…….huge negative in my opinion. Correct, no notching in the Gold/Goldfield modes but nothing says you are limited solely to using the Goldfield modes for prospecting. Even though not truly all metal you can still use the mono mode at 45 khz high frequency or any of the high frequency weighted FMF modes such as Sensitive, Sensitive FT (full tones) or Fast with minimal disc dialed in for prospecting while utilizing the ability to notch out hot rocks, if necessary. But like Jeff and Andy have mentioned previously, hot rocks do give a distinctive "delayed, hollow" audio tone that is fairly easy to pick up on once you have your ears "calibrated" for the day (dig a couple at the start and then your muscle memory will kick in). 2 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said: Just remember currently there are four big differences at least on paper between the Deus 2 Gold Field program and the Deus 1/Orx Gold programs. Two are big positive differences in my opinion which are Deus 2 GoldField is FMF or selectable single frequency and Deus 1/ORX is just single frequency. Deus 2 also has a choice of PWM VCO or Square Wave VCO audio. One big negative is the lack of a small elliptical coil for Deus 2. Deus 1 and ORX have the 9.5X5” elliptical. The other somewhat negative is Deus 2 highest single frequency is roughly 45 kHz. Deus 1 and ORX highest single frequency is 81 kHz. Just wanted to make a small correction here. Unlike Deus 1 where each of the programs is really just default setting variants and are somewhat interchangeable (except that the pseudo AM Goldfield program which is distinct from the "discrimination" programs). Deus 2 is set up a little differently. Each of the programs is indeed unique in the sense that the FMF profile for each program is "fixed". From what I can tell, and someone who is presently using the machine like Calabash can confirm this, you cannot operate the FMF programs in single selectable frequency (this includes the Goldfield and Relic). Mono is the only program available that allows you to operate in single frequency mode and it is dedicated for that purpose. So I believe the statement above "Deus 2 GoldField is FMF or selectable single frequency" is incorrect. It is only FMF and Goldfield flavored FMF which is described in the manual as follows: Prg. 8 - GOLD FIELD FMF • Max. freq. 40khz • Frequency addition. That's it. No single frequency. RELIC mode is similar only the Max. freq. is 24khz • Frequency subtraction. I agree the lack of the small coil is problematic, but I also understand better now why the elliptical is not really compatible with Deus 2. Being a single frequency coil, it could not be utilized in the Goldfield mode which is FMF only on Deus 2. I sure hope XP comes out with an FMF/Deus 2 compatible variant of the small elliptical coil. Since single frequency in is not available in the FMF modes it is hard to say at this point whether the FMF max frequency of 40 khz holds back Deus 2 compared to what you can do with Deus 1 and Orx and the HF coils that can be operated in the 53 to 80 khz range. 2 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said: Deus 1 and ORX in Gold modes are basically threshold based all metal modes on steroids with ground grab ground balancing, iron reject on or off, iron audio on or off, VCO 1 tone audio, reactivity/recovery speed adjustments, threshold volume adjustments, 0 to 99 target ID, iron probability graph, mineralization graph, depth graph, pinpoint, internal rechargeable batteries and wireless audio. Really good information from Jeff here but a super minor detailed correction here - "iron reject" or in XP terminology "Iron Audio Reject" or IAR is not just "on or off" in Gold Mode (Orx)/Gold Field Mode (Deus 1 and 2)/Relic Mode (Deus 2 only), but has a 5-level range of adjustable rejection (0 - 5, with a "0" being the setting for IAR off). Not the same as discrimination, IAR chops what it considers ferrous audio from the VCO audio signal resulting in choppy audio or blanking, depending on the strength of rejection selected, if Deus "thinks" there is ferrous content in the target. IAR really gets fooled by magnetite in mineralized ground and makes every target signal sound like crap, so its use is worthless under those conditions. HTH 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff McClendon Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Hi Hugh, thanks for the almost clarification on Gold Field and Relic being FMF only on Deus 2. I am not 100% sure either but honestly it doesn't really matter since I would try to always use FMF. I rarely use my Equinox in its Gold modes in single frequency unless EMI is just awful. As far as Disc. IAR, a serious Covid brain fog moment happened while I was editing that paragraph. What I meant to say was iron reject can be Off=0 or On set to 1 through 5. Again, I rarely use it gold prospecting. Just like you said, in magnetite, using it just confuses things and shallow to surface, tiny gold can get swallowed up by masking using the single frequency Deus 1 and ORX. Maybe........FMF will help that situation????? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Goldman Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 9 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said: Hi Hugh, thanks for the almost clarification on Gold Field and Relic being FMF only on Deus 2. I am not 100% sure either but honestly it doesn't really matter since I would try to always use FMF. I rarely use my Equinox in its Gold modes in single frequency unless EMI is just awful. As far as Disc. IAR, a serious Covid brain fog moment happened while I was editing that paragraph. What I meant to say was iron reject can be Off=0 or On set to 1 through 5. Again, I rarely use it gold prospecting. Just like you said, in magnetite, using it just confuses things and shallow to surface, tiny gold can get swallowed up by masking using the single frequency Deus 1 and ORX. Maybe........FMF will help that situation????? Yeah until we get it into our hands on the D2 ourselves some of these "settings" questions are a little down in the weeds and there are small ambiguities in the manual wrt to these settings despite it being a pretty well put together user guide overall. The folks who are doing and documenting the testing are not bothering to delve into that level of minutiae either because they are trying to maximize the range of conditions under test or because of a lack of experience in certain areas such as prospecting or salt water hunting. If there is anything to be disappointed about wrt to the D2 at this point whether it is prospecting, coin shooting, or relic hunting, is no compatible small elliptical coil as of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Herschbach Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 On 1/4/2022 at 5:39 PM, Chase Goldman said: Correct, no notching in the Gold/Goldfield modes but nothing says you are limited solely to using the Goldfield modes for prospecting. Even though not truly all metal you can still use the mono mode at 45 khz high frequency or any of the high frequency weighted FMF modes such as Sensitive, Sensitive FT (full tones) or Fast with minimal disc dialed in for prospecting while utilizing the ability to notch out hot rocks, if necessary. People overlook relic mode as a nugget hunting mode on Equinox, but if set up similar to gold mode it’s neck and neck. Really just the difference between “beep mode” and a highly digitized version of VCO, not the actual capability. I found Deus to be similar in that the “non-nugget” modes were very viable for nugget hunting, perhaps better under some circumstances, I have no worries about the basic prospecting capability of the D2 outside of the lack of small coil. Coils do matter on the tiniest stuff in the worst ground, as seeing less ground, and accentuating the transmitted field. There is just no way a D2 can go head to head with something like a Gold Bug 2 with a 3x6 concentric. But there is also the fact that you tend to find what you look for, and concentrating on 1/10th grain specks may not be the best way to go if weight in pouch at end of week matters. I like hunting dinks, enjoy it actually, but I have to focus on being optimized on half gram to gram targets if I want to do well nugget detecting. The 9’’ round should do just fine for that, and better as the gold gets larger than the small coils. Everything is a trade. Number one consideration should be knowing what gold size to expect. If all you have is grain type gold or very finely dispersed specimen gold, using a D2 with 9” coil would be foolish. If you do have potential for gold with size, going to too small a coil is also foolish, as you not only lose depth, but ground coverage. I actually tend to pick a VLF less for the machine itself, as so many are quite good, but for the specific coils they can run. I’ll grab the D2 with 9” for larger bits, but 24K with 6” concentric for tiny bits. It’s more like I’m running coils, and I just use whatever detector it takes to run the proper coil. Good subject for one of my all to rare deep dive articles soon. I love this chart as it says it all. Small coils go deeper on small gold, big coils go deeper on big gold, and mediums are just a compromise, though there are nuggets where medium also gets the best depth, like grammers. It’s why I tend to bounce back and forth between small and large a lot, with mediums often getting the least use. You won’t get these kind of difference changing from one VLF for another VLF with the same size coil. Look at those numbers again. It’s way more about the coils than most people think, and why coil selection is near top, if not at top, for why I own the detectors I own. Coil Size vs Depth Fisher Gold Bug 2 Source - Field Testing the Gold Bug 2 by Gordon Zahara 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff McClendon Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 I have zero published proof of this next statement. However, I believe there are some ground/hot rock handling things going on in the background when using the Equinox Gold modes that are not happening in Park 2 and Field 2. Also, contrary to what I used to think, the threshold in the Gold modes may actually be more than a reference threshold like it is in Park 2 and Field 2. At least for smaller gold less that .5 grams, I have experienced a noticeable difference in sensitivity between the Gold modes and Park 2 and Field 2 setup similar to the Gold modes. Deus 1 and the ORX using either HF coil in 31 kHz (similar frequency to Deus 2's 40 kHz) were much more sensitive to .5 gram and smaller gold than the other Deus 1 version 5.2 software modes by an inch or more. Deus 2 with its FMF technology along with its new discrimination search modes may change all of that. So we'll know soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zord Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 There is hot rocks notch in Goldfield of Deus1. This setting is Ground Notch existing in expert settings of GB menu. I'm using Ground Notch of 84-90 range and hot rocks are gone. https://www.metaldetectingworld.com/xp_deus_manual_ground_balance.shtml 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff McClendon Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 18 minutes ago, Zord said: There is hot rocks notch in Goldfield of Deus1. This setting is Ground Notch existing in expert settings of GB menu. I'm using Ground Notch of 84-90 range and hot rocks are gone. https://www.metaldetectingworld.com/xp_deus_manual_ground_balance.shtml I tried to use the Ground Notch feature. It works but for me the notch window was too wide... and the ground handling ability of the single frequency Goldfield mode made the boundaries of the notch window very unstable meaning their values could be up or down averaged depending on mineralization and mask targets near the notch window. The Equinox single digit notching is far superior and using Multi IQ it is very exact unless the ground is just terrible. Hopefully Deus 2 with FMF will have much better ground handling capabilities. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Herschbach Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 39 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said: I have zero published proof of this next statement. However, I believe there are some ground/hot rock handling things going on in the background when using the Equinox Gold modes that are not happening in Park 2 and Field 2. Also, contrary to what I used to think, the threshold in the Gold modes may actually be more than a reference threshold like it is in Park 2 and Field 2. At least for smaller gold less that .5 grams, I have experienced a noticeable difference in sensitivity between the Gold modes and Park 2 and Field 2 setup similar to the Gold modes. Deus 1 and the ORX using either HF coil in 31 kHz (similar frequency to Deus 2's 40 kHz) were much more sensitive to .5 gram and smaller gold than the other Deus 1 version 5.2 software modes by an inch or more. Deus 2 with its FMF technology along with its new discrimination search modes may change all of that. So we'll know soon. I'm not saying Gold Mode is not better. I'm saying Relic mode is better than many think, and is not worth discarding out of hand as an option. In some areas wide open ferrous/non-ferrous tones can be nice, for instance. That's all. Gold Mode threshold is a reference threshold, but will come very close to mimicking a genuine ground coupled threshold if sensitivity is pushed high enough. But we need to stop talking Equinox now, wrong venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zord Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 16 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said: I tried to use the Ground Notch feature. It works but for me the notch window was too wide... and the ground handling ability of the single frequency Goldfield mode made the boundaries of the notch window very unstable meaning their values could be up or down averaged depending on mineralization and mask targets near the notch window. The Equinox single digit notching is far superior and using Multi IQ it is very exact unless the ground is just terrible. Hopefully Deus 2 with FMF will have much better ground handling capabilities. If understand correctly, are You afraid of masking targets? GB values and Ground Notch values (digits on screen) have nothing to do with targets id numbers (and audio). There is no bond between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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