Steve Herschbach Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 10 hours ago, Skullgolddiver said: So new tools with high frequency, possibly usable underwater are a gamechanger on thin gold. There won’t be, will not be, can’t be. This comes up with every new saltwater detector, and it’s not going to happen. Here is why: https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/13980-ctx-vs-equinox-800/#comment-140685 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull diver Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said: Here is why I might be wrong, but the only light in the tunnel i see Is to try to keep focus among salt falsing to hear a more solid signal...An hard challenge, maybe obtainable with high enough salt sens to hear a faint nervous audio, but still manageable. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff McClendon Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 I don't have a Deus 2 yet and I live where there is a foot of snow not near a saltwater beach........I can only go by what I have seen in Calabash's and other's beach videos using Beach Sensitive which is published to have one FMF operating frequency near 40 kHz. So far on beaches with very little black sand, Beach Sensitive has been able to run fairly quietly in dry and wet sand even with overall sensitivity set at 95 of 99 and with it being used by fairly inexperienced beach hunters but very experienced Deus 1 users. Salt sensitivity has been set at around 7 to keep it stable. I have also mentioned that I have been able to run Equinox Park 1 and Park 2 effectively in the dry and slightly damp sand at the same beaches hunted by Calabash and History Teacher. Definitely can't run Park 1 and Park 2 in the wet sand there, however. I have said several times directly to John that I don't know how XP managed to do this. I still don't. I can only assume that the Salt Sensitivity settings really work well especially on the inherently more "unstable" higher frequency weighted beach modes like Beach and Beach Sensitive. There has been lots of talk about Beach Sensitive being very sensitive to micro gold jewelry. I have not seen any wild micro gold jewelry targets dug so far that an Equinox in Beach 1 won't hit if shallow. However, there is no doubt that Beach Sensitive is far more sensitive to small targets than Equinox Beach 1 as it should be.....40 kHz vs +/- 20 kHz. It is interesting or telling, that the current Deus 2 manual never mentions micro gold jewelry in its paragraphs on each Beach mode. It repeatedly mentions small and large target level of effectiveness with no specific conductivity referenced. Beach Sensitive is touted to be effective on both small and large targets. No mention is made for using Beach Sensitive submerged. The Diving and normal Beach programs do have references for use submerged. So Skullgolddiver, using Beach Sensitive for diving would mean you would have to really tweak the Salt Sensitivity setting and that might knock out some sensitivity to small gold jewelry, small platinum jewelry and small steel jewelry or smaller targets that are poorly oriented or damaged as referenced in this section of the manual on Salt Sensitivity where low conductors are actually mentioned: " When using higher levels of SALT SENS, low conductive targets that register around TID 30 may also be slightly attenuated, this setting will not effect higher conductive targets." Using higher levels of Bottle Cap Reject may also effect small non-ferrous low conductors. So, maybe XP have somehow bent the laws of physics or found a loophole..............or come to a workable compromise that allows the use of a frequency near 40 kHz at saltwater beaches. Hope you feel better soon John. Hugh, stop ribbing me about my Covid excuses. My sister and mother are both long Covid sufferers so I might really have a good excuse for my idiocy? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Oostra Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 On 2/3/2022 at 9:42 AM, Jeff McClendon said: I can only assume that the Salt Sensitivity settings really work well especially on the inherently more "unstable" higher frequency weighted beach modes like Beach and Beach Sensitive. They also work well in program 10 Diving.. I'm finding Beach Sensitive pretty unstable underwater, this program's use of higher frequencies becomes much more noticeable.. Beach is alright, but the Diving program with it's lower frequencies does help the detector run smoothly in seawater.. On 2/3/2022 at 9:42 AM, Jeff McClendon said: Using higher levels of Bottle Cap Reject may also effect non-ferrous low conductors. I tied finding a fairly chunky gold ring underwater with B.Caps on high, I couldn't find it again.. So I won't be using this function much as for me this is a 'once bitten, twice shy' scenario.. When I'm trying to recover rings for people I can't afford to miss them through gimmicky settings like these.. I can understand how B.Cap might be useful on a really rubbishy beach, but I'm always worried about missing the good stuff that's found within the same target range.. On 2/3/2022 at 9:42 AM, Jeff McClendon said: So, maybe XP have somehow bent the laws of physics or found a loophole.............. I'm sure that's the reason the Deus II is so expensive.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Oostra Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 This morning at Alma Bay.. I brought a camera along as the visibility was good, usually it's pretty murky because of the muddy mangroves along the coast.. I was on a ring recovery job when I noticed some fish watching me.. I didn't find the ring (it was lost last weekend) simply because I can't hear the Deus II, but I've ordered the bone-phones so I'm sure to find it next week.. I ended up having another looksee with the PulseDive but still no luck.. Anyway, these were the diving conditions today: 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Oostra Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 Here's what the antenna assembly looks like underwater.. Tough and strong or flimsy and weak? You be the judge.. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Oostra Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 Thanks Steve for your simple explanations to a tricky problem.. I'm learning that the salt sensitivity settings make a difference here, they simply make the Deus II detect gold rings better than the Equinox in seawater.. I think (but I could be completely wrong here) that the Deus II processes signals better because of the salt sensitivity settings.. In seawater I usually set the salt settings from 6 to 8, but on really iffy signals or when I'm on a recovery job I run them full-bore on 9.. None of the different salt settings (0-9) seem to affect the detector's sensitivity, something that always worried me with the Equinox (when you crank the sensitivity down too much, you'll miss good targets).. All this can also depend on how salty your sea is.. For example, the Coral Sea is like a shallow underwater basin, making it much saltier than the deep Pacific Ocean which nearly surrounds it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff McClendon Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 18 minutes ago, Erik Oostra said: Thanks Steve for your simple explanations to a tricky problem.. I'm learning that the salt sensitivity settings make a difference here, they simply make the Deus II detect small gold rings better than the Equinox in seawater.. I think (but I could be completely wrong here) that the Deus II processes signals better because of the salt sensitivity settings.. In seawater I usually set the salt settings from 6 to 8, but on really iffy signals or when I'm on a recovery job I run them full-bore on 9.. None of the different salt settings (0-9) seem to affect the detector's sensitivity, something that always worried me with the Equinox (when you crank the sensitivity down too much, you'll miss good targets).. All this can also depend on how salty your sea is.. For example, the Coral Sea is like a shallow underwater basin, making it much saltier than the Pacific Ocean which nearly surrounds it.. Erik, I would like to see you test your theory that it is Salt Sens that is making the difference as far as sensitivity to jewelry targets like gold rings. At least on paper, Deus 2 Beach mode used submerged (not talking about Beach Sensitive) should already be more sensitive to small targets and lower conductors due to its much higher frequency weighting than Beach 2 on the Equinox for sure when used submerged. Equinox Beach 2 and Deus 2’s Diving mode again on paper are operating at very similar frequency weighting and should have similar results. If they don’t, then your Salt Sens theory may be for real. I would still be careful about cranking up Salt Sens to 9 on ring finder type dives for customers. That is why I added the caveat in the manual to my earlier post. Most gold rings should land in the 45 to 85 target ID range under normal conditions. If the ring is on edge, damaged or being partially masked by another target or black sand it may read much lower and closer to the 30 or lower target ID range where too high a setting of Salt Sens and the saltwater ground balance area could attenuate the signal and audio. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phrunt Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 you don't have any little gold nuggets laying around you can test on it in the prospecting mode do you Erik? That's something I'd be interested in vs the Equinox, even air test depths would do me, I know my air test results vs my soil results which are very similar for the Equinox here so it'd give me an idea. I'd also like to know the smallest flake it can hit on but that might be a bit much to ask for you to have something like a 0.001 of a gram flake laying around ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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