F5 Vs F75 Or T2 All Metal

[JCR]

Reading the recent conversation prompted by @Daniel Tnon his Manticore comparison at his hot dirt deep bullet site, I have been considering my All Metal capable detectors.  I would normally use my AT Max if I wanted to run true motion All Metal. I have a good selection of coils for it.   I also have a F5 with a NEL Sharpshooter coil. The F5 has a nice motion All Metal mode.  My question is;  Is the F5 motion All Metal mode inferior to a F75/T2 in motion All Metal using a comparable 11" size coil?  I may want to consider getting a 11" size coil for the F5 if it is powerful enough.

[kac]

I believe the F5 is a little shy on depth compared to F75 and T2.

The AT Max is a very deep machine but the only thing I don't like about it for all metal is the threshold isn't fine enough. Set at 1 it is too loud for my taste and 0 I feel like I am missing something. Alternatively I can run my Tejon in AM with pitch mode on and 2nd disc to junk check (something you can probably do well with your Vista X), or I use my Gold Racer as it has nice isat control with good tracking. Gold Racer also has imask to handle any hot rocks I run into which are common along the river near me and lake shores.

F5 has been discontinued. I almost bought one but seems that Fisher remapped nickels up near pennies in disc modes so targets aren't in natural order. I use nickels as a break point or reference for the hight end mark of most gold jewlery. Moving that point up near coins will put me into the flip tab mark in junk.

Not sure if the remapping effects all metal on the F5?

[Daniel Tn]

Something I had forgotten about since last having an F75:  the newer DST model F75s have been neutered from what made them great.  They have a VERY weak all metal mode now.  To get a good one, you'll have to find one that hasn't been updated and is a non DST model.  Just an example for you...the F75 I recently traded for is a DST model. With it at 99 sensitivity, it will only AIR TEST a .58 cal Minie ball out to 9.5-10 inches in all metal.  And you have to really be listening to hear it. By comparison, we tested my buddys original non updated F75 on the same minie ball and his unit sounds like it has an audio boost enabled in all metal and is much more powerful.  We couldn't get his to 99 sens due to chatter but with it on 80, it was calm and could detect that minie out to 14 inches.  Yes, that's a 4 inch difference.  Whereas the newer one was weak and barely hearable at 10 inches...his was a "no doubt about it" signal at 10...very pronounced.  We could actually turn his sensitivity down to 60 and 70 and still get better distance than the neutered F75 at 99 sens.  I traded a CZ70 Pro with George here on the forum for a T2. I'm hoping like crazy that it's a non DST model lol. Or at least isn't as badly neutered as the F75 I have.  

[JCR]

Thanks for the replies. Yes the At Max in Motion All Metal is very deep. I agree the Threshold is not as smoothly adjustable as I would like. The Vista X is also plenty deep. I have the largest factory coils for both. The F5 is just such a nice unit to run, I would like to use it more.

Is that F75 that weak in AM with the DST supposedly off?

[GB_Amateur]

2 hours ago, Daniel Tn said:

the newer DST model F75s have been neutered from what made them great.  They have a VERY weak all metal mode now.  To get a good one, you'll have to find one that hasn't been updated and is a non DST model.  Just an example for you...the F75 I recently traded for is a DST model. With it at 99 sensitivity, it will only AIR TEST a .58 cal Minie ball out to 9.5-10 inches in all metal.

Just to be crystal clear, did you turn off the DST when you ran this test?

Also, which coil were you using for the test, the 7"x11" stock DD?

[Daniel Tn]

Yes, that is correct.  On this F75, 9.0 seems to be OFF and 9.1 is ON.  I say that because 9.1 is even weaker.  You lose about another 1.5 to 2 inches from 9.0 to 9.1.  Despite it supposed to be "off" there is still something going on behind the scenes.  Yes, that is also comparing the two with the stock coils.  We even tried swapping coils to see if maybe the coils had something to do with it....didn't matter.

[kac]

How deep do you really need to go? I often hunt with the Mulit Kruzer in all metal, most the time I just get a -- but still hear a target of some sorts. I will toss it into 2 tone or deep to check the target more if is sounds like a good size target. Good way to scout out for deeper targets in less trashy areas. F5 with it's low frequency should run pretty smooth in tougher grounds. Not sure how much a bigger coil will go or if it's worth the $$. I have better success with smaller coils than slugging large coils around but really depends on the grounds.

[Daniel Tn]

As deep as possible.  Remember...9 or 10 inches in the air does not equate to the same in the ground. It will be a lot less, especially in mineralized ground. My Buddy's non neutered F75 can detect every signal in my test garden and even IDs the deepest one correct.  My neutered F75 doesn't make a peep on 3 of the same targets. It wouldn't be any different "in the wild" either.  

[kac]

10 hours ago, Daniel Tn said:

As deep as possible.  Remember...9 or 10 inches in the air does not equate to the same in the ground. It will be a lot less, especially in mineralized ground. My Buddy's non neutered F75 can detect every signal in my test garden and even IDs the deepest one correct.  My neutered F75 doesn't make a peep on 3 of the same targets. It wouldn't be any different "in the wild" either.  

That is true. I use all metal mode to try to pick out stuff from mixed targets like a chunk of rust and maybe, just maybe something else so ID's don't really need to be all that accurate. It also helps when there are hot rocks around as true all metal you get a null on negative rocks that can change target responses on targets nearby making them unstable. Very hard to hear a negative hot rock in any discrimination mode. Still an effective way to hunt by size and depth in moderate and low trash areas.

Have any of you used non motion detecting? Like the Bandido's or Outlaw? Could see that working well unless there is a lot of trash.

[JCR]

My Garrett CXII has true Non Motion All Metal. It runs quite smooth once adjusted properly. Even with the 12" coil it is not any deeper than my more modern detectors in Disc mode. I keep it for the 2 Box attachment I have for it to hunt for dumps. My Anfibio Multi has Non Motion Cache mode that I should play with some more.