New Minelab Blues

[Don71]

I sold my GPX-6000 and went back to the GPZ-7000 with 12" NF Z-Search coil.
I can hit 0.1 gram nuggets and above and find the deep larger gold too.
(I use a shortened Gold Monster as a pin-pointer and for really small stuff.)

It's too bad the 6000 can't also hit larger gold down deep.
The machine is fun to swing, but what's the point? I am missing the big stuff.

I am waiting for the release of the Nugget Finder 16x10 coil.
Maybe that coil can add some depth back into the 6000 if it can ever be released.
At that point, I might buy another 6000.

-Don

[phrunt]

16x10 won’t add much depth at all over 11” if any, even 17” round adds no worthwhile depth on bigger stuff to justify the bigger heavier coil.  The 16x10 benefit is a light coil on a light detector to cover ground quickly and for that I think it would be fantastic.  A bit worried after using the 14x9 just how good it will be though.

[Steve Herschbach]

On 7/26/2023 at 10:20 AM, abenson said:

I haven't given up on the Manticore yet. I am getting to know it better every time I use it. I think the biggest issue is over driving the machine and that goes for the 900 too. AT HC is a real bad program to use in moderate to high mineralization or in nail beds, it's way too sparky. Keeping the sensitivity within the limits of both ground and EMI is another thing to consider. I will usually run my sensitivity up to where is just starts to chatter and then back it off 1 point. If you have EMI noise in the audio you're asking for trouble. At first I hated the update on the Manticore and went back to the old version. But I've been having some conversations with Minelab about the update and have been using it more and more employing some of the features in the update to allow the Manticore to run more stable. Minelab won't admit it but I really think they have done something to the sensitivity with the new update. I can run mine about 2 points higher than before in most places. Stabilizer at 1 can also be used to calm some EMI allowing higher sensitivity settings and it appears to stabilize the ID somewhat without affecting depth.

this ^^^

The jumpy target id has nothing to do with the range being expanded. Jumpy target id is a huge sign screaming “you are over driving the machine” and virtually all complaints about jumpy target id with the Manticore are rooted in this basic fact.

The tech is maxed out and Minelabs latest attempts at gains are being had by overdriving the electronics. This offers gains to users in lower mineral ground but can actually make things worse in high mineral ground. I’ll quote myself from over a year ago:

“In real terms they are simply talking about an increase in transmit power over the Equinox. However, that only works in milder ground. Those in the know understand that Equinox incorporates the ability to lower the transmit power to deal with harsh beach scenarios. Otherwise more power simply overloads the detector with ground feedback. So I would expect larger gains in low mineral places like Florida or deep turf, less or no gain in highly mineralized soils, like the west coast beaches in particular. Tom D will no doubt be loving all over this for Florida. People in high mineral areas will wonder what all the fuss is about by comparison.”

In high mineral ground the higher transmit power results in blowback from the ground. The only way to tame the machines is to use the low power modes and reduce sensitivity. That in turn basically takes you back to Equinox 800 levels of performance. So that’s your choice. In high mineral ground avoid ATHC mode and lower your sensitivity until target id stabilizes. And accept less depth, though the loss is not as dramatic as people imagine. Or push higher and get jumpy target id.

Simon is an outlier reporting jumpy target id in low mineral ground and may have a bad machine, kind of par for the course with him and Minelab. 

[phrunt]

18 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

this ^

The jumpy target id has nothing to do with the range being expanded. Jumpy target id is a huge sign screaming “you are over driving the machine” and virtually all complaints about jumpy target id with the Manticore are rooted in this basic fact.

Yes I found keeping sensitivity below 16 improved it greatly and still maintains the depth of the Nox on 25, the extra sensitivity hopefully will be good with the small coil on gold where it’s a dig it all situation anyway.  The Nox is still more stable though even taking into account the bigger ID range.

[abenson]

This is why I don't like the update in my soil. Just when I thought I had it tweaked to get some decent depth around here, I did another comparison between the old and new software. There's definitely something wrong. I don't think a person realizes, including myself just how bad it is in mineralized soil until you actually compare the two versions on targets side by side. The old version is what I'll stick with once I get a bunch more testing done or until Minelab fixes the issue.

 

[VicR]

Agree with Steve - i have had the Manticore for 8 months now and have learnt to back sensitivity off so  it runs smoother. I have my best results by doing this & the trade off in depth is negligible.

With the 6000 i have just come back from 6 days detecting at Tibooburra using the Nuggetfinder 12 x 7 coil - it certainly quietens the machine significantly and comparing it to the 11 inch found a lot more gold. Very happy with the new coil.

[phrunt]

10 hours ago, abenson said:

This is why I don't like the update in my soil. Just when I thought I had it tweaked to get some decent depth around here, I did another comparison between the old and new software. There's definitely something wrong. I don't think a person realizes, including myself just how bad it is in mineralized soil until you actually compare the two versions on targets side by side. The old version is what I'll stick with once I get a bunch more testing done or until Minelab fixes the issue.

Out of interest, how would have the Equinox 800 handled that little test?  The difference between pre-update and after is very obvious in that video, can't really deny there isn't something wrong with the update in your conditions.  They've obviously changed something that's not gone to plan.  

If we look at the changelog the only thing it could be is number 7 which is the very generic fixes that they don't want to say directly what they've tinkered with when they say "and more" Programmer speak for too embarrassing to say what we have fixed or in this case possibly messed up, I think they've improved ID stability in milder soils with the update, it wasn't listed but falls into the "and more" I think, and whatever changes has possibly caused your issue.  I really hope they can sort all this stuff out with future updates the Manticore is so close to being a good detector yet so far at the same time.

WHAT IS NEW?

1. Stabiliser Setting: A new Stabiliser feature has been added to All Terrain Search Modes, significantly enhancing useability in iron trash. It improves the overall stability of the audio and Target IDs at sites where iron falsing may be experienced, and adds nuance to better distinguish good targets from iron. Adjust from 0 to 12 and make false detections a thing of the past.
2. Enhanced Goldfield Search Mode: Take advantage of greater sensitivity to small gold with the power of MANTICORE.
3. Soft Key Shortcuts: Take charge of MANTICORE with soft key shortcut functions added to control Search Mode, Flashlight, Display Brightness, Sensitivity Boost, Clear ID Map, Speaker Mute, Recovery Speed, and Frequency.
4. Customisable Ferrous Target ID: Make it personal by highlighting Ferrous Target IDs in red.
5. Underwater Headphone Boost: Enhanced audio awaits with Underwater Boost to increase headphone volume when using Minelab Waterproof Accessory Headphones (sold separately).
6. Language Customisation: Access the user interface in your choice of language from English, French, German, Czech, Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Hindi.
7. General Stability Enhancements: Including improvements to Beach Mode Ground balance on dry sand, Search Mode default settings, wireless audio connection stability improvements and more.

 

[abenson]

4 hours ago, phrunt said:

Out of interest, how would have the Equinox 800 handled that little test?  The difference between pre-update and after is very obvious in that video, can't really deny there isn't something wrong with the update in your conditions.  They've obviously changed something that's not gone to plan.  

If we look at the changelog the only thing it could be is number 7 which is the very generic fixes that they don't want to say directly what they've tinkered with when they say "and more" Programmer speak for too embarrassing to say what we have fixed or in this case possibly messed up, I think they've improved ID stability in milder soils with the update, it wasn't listed but falls into the "and more" I think, and whatever changes has possibly caused your issue.  I really hope they can sort all this stuff out with future updates the Manticore is so close to being a good detector yet so far at the same time.

WHAT IS NEW?

1. Stabiliser Setting: A new Stabiliser feature has been added to All Terrain Search Modes, significantly enhancing useability in iron trash. It improves the overall stability of the audio and Target IDs at sites where iron falsing may be experienced, and adds nuance to better distinguish good targets from iron. Adjust from 0 to 12 and make false detections a thing of the past.
2. Enhanced Goldfield Search Mode: Take advantage of greater sensitivity to small gold with the power of MANTICORE.
3. Soft Key Shortcuts: Take charge of MANTICORE with soft key shortcut functions added to control Search Mode, Flashlight, Display Brightness, Sensitivity Boost, Clear ID Map, Speaker Mute, Recovery Speed, and Frequency.
4. Customisable Ferrous Target ID: Make it personal by highlighting Ferrous Target IDs in red.
5. Underwater Headphone Boost: Enhanced audio awaits with Underwater Boost to increase headphone volume when using Minelab Waterproof Accessory Headphones (sold separately).
6. Language Customisation: Access the user interface in your choice of language from English, French, German, Czech, Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Hindi.
7. General Stability Enhancements: Including improvements to Beach Mode Ground balance on dry sand, Search Mode default settings, wireless audio connection stability improvements and more.

 

I don't have an 800 anymore, but from past experience I think the results would be similar to the Manticore without the update.

I have to agree with you Simon, number 7 would be my conclusion as well. With the M8 coil mounted up the Manticore has no problem with those same targets running the update.

[UT Dave]

I wonder, how the update with the M8, considering #2, fares on tiny gold compared to the M8 on the old version.  Complications, always complications 😁.

On the Manticore plus side, I was reminded this morning of how fast the Manticore is.  It think it does better than the 800 at finding good targets amongst non-ferrous park trash.  With the 11" coil at least.  This morning I was in a spot I've hit with the 800 before.  There's a section with heavy EMI and heavy non-ferrous trash, that I've definitely plucked some quarters and dimes out of with the 800, but it's not the easiest ground to detect.  But scrubbing it with the Manticore this morning, once again, I was reminded that it really does do better than the 800 for me in those conditions.  Cherry picked about $7 in clad, a tungsten and a few junk rings and only four trash items out of there in two hours before the temperature started getting up there.  Considering what I know of the spot from hitting it in the past, that was nothing to complain about.

- Dave

[Dug D]

13 hours ago, phrunt said:

WHAT IS NEW?

1. Stabiliser Setting: A new Stabiliser feature has been added to All Terrain Search Modes, significantly enhancing useability in iron trash. It improves the overall stability of the audio and Target IDs at sites where iron falsing may be experienced, and adds nuance to better distinguish good targets from iron. Adjust from 0 to 12 and make false detections a thing of the past.
2. Enhanced Goldfield Search Mode: Take advantage of greater sensitivity to small gold with the power of MANTICORE.
3. Soft Key Shortcuts: Take charge of MANTICORE with soft key shortcut functions added to control Search Mode, Flashlight, Display Brightness, Sensitivity Boost, Clear ID Map, Speaker Mute, Recovery Speed, and Frequency.
4. Customisable Ferrous Target ID: Make it personal by highlighting Ferrous Target IDs in red.
5. Underwater Headphone Boost: Enhanced audio awaits with Underwater Boost to increase headphone volume when using Minelab Waterproof Accessory Headphones (sold separately).
6. Language Customisation: Access the user interface in your choice of language from English, French, German, Czech, Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Hindi.
7. General Stability Enhancements: Including improvements to Beach Mode Ground balance on dry sand, Search Mode default settings, wireless audio connection stability improvements and more.

My question is what else is changed, because something IS different even with stabilizer 0 and filter off, the MC was not keeping up with the X-pro after the update. I would find a marginal target with the MC and the X-pro hit it with no effort, first swing.  With some luck I will get a few hour in tomorrow with the old software and hopefully feel a little better about the MC. I will keep trying to back down the sensitivity, but I always run quiet and backing down under 20 has not been very productive.