New Minelab Blues

[Chase Goldman]

After my very positive experience with the Nox 800, I decided to invest in the Nox 900 figuring that it was the natural progression of the Nox evolution with Minelab addressing all the physical design flaws of the Nox 800 (sub-par shaft system, water ingress issues, overly thick grip) while adding some bells and whistles (vibration, flashlight), and an audio feature that had been on my Nox wishlist since inception (Deep Pitch for all search profiles, not just Gold mode).  What I didn't count on was constant chatter and EMI issues and very unstable TIDs which appear to be partially attributed to the expanded TID range.

Net result was 1 step forward and 2 steps back. A disappointment.

I am now attempting to get acclimated to Manticore, and while the additional advanced features such as target trace, advanced filtering, audio, and search modes are somewhat compelling, it also suffers from TID stability issues similar to the Nox (though less EMI) and getting a handle on the optimal search mode for a given situation and search objective (e.g., coins or relics in hot or mild dirt) seems like a trial and error guessing game.  Having no accessory coil options now a full 7 plus months after release is also a kick in the pants.  Haven't given up on it but I am less inclined to "gut it out 'til I master it" like I did with the original Nox because of the audio fatigue and TID guessing game.  Especially considering my newly updated Deus 2 (which has been killing it for more than a year even before the update) is just sitting there tempting me with its new expressive audio, rock solid target IDs, and feather light ergonomics.  Maybe a reasonably priced small elliptical for the M-core would entice me more.

Bottom line:  At this point, as far as ML is concerned, despite the excitement of the forthcoming ML pinpointer (yes that's called sarcasm), about the only thing that would get me excited about a ML detector would be if they decided to stuff the brains of the Nox 800 (with dPitch added) into the body of the Nox 900.

[midalake]

12 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

What I didn't count on was constant chatter and EMI issues and very unstable TIDs which appear to be partially attributed to the expanded TID range.

Humm, a few experienced users with issues.  Maybe a good thing I have 3 800's tucked away now?  When you say unstable TID's, is this for looking at one target or say a TID range for all Pulltabs. 

[Jeff McClendon]

 

On 7/26/2023 at 7:09 AM, midalake said:

Humm, a few experienced users with issues.  Maybe a good thing I have 3 800's tucked away now?  When you say unstable TID's, is this for looking at one target or say a TID range for all Pulltabs. 

I am referencing Abenson's video without his permission to give you a visual/audio experience of what some of us are seeing with the performance of the Nox 900 and Manticore in moderate to high iron mineralization. I hope that is OK.

Using the 900 for almost 5 months in those conditions, the video from Andy shows much the same as I experienced. Now he is using full tones. Imagine using 2 tones and having to watch the numbers or using 5 tones with tone bins that are being constantly crossed over with these unstable target responses. Those jumpy numbers are not mostly being caused by EMI. Those are target responses that are being influenced by ground conditions.

Watch from the 1:20 mark to the 5:50 mark for a short video example of what many of us are talking about. This part of the video shows just the Manticore and its tendencies in high iron mineralization. My experience with the Equinox 900 is remarkably similar.

You can also skip over to the 9:30 mark and watch to the 14:50 mark and see the Equinox 900, Manticore and Deus 2 in action at a different, slightly less iron mineralized site on 5", 6" and 8" US dimes.

Better yet, just enjoy the whole video.

I would like to own an Equinox 900 or a Manticore. Right now, they would not offer an improvement over my Deus 2, Equinox 800 or even my Nokta Legend.

 

[Bill (S. CA)]

39 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

 

I am referencing Abenson's video without his permission to give you a visual/audio experience of what some of us are seeing with the performance of the Nox 900 and Manticore in moderate to high iron mineralization. I hope that is OK.

Using the 900 for almost 5 months in those conditions, the video from Andy shows much the same as I experienced. Now he is using full tones. Imagine using 2 tones and having to watch the numbers or using 5 tones with tone bins that are being constantly crossed over with these unstable target responses. Those jumpy numbers are not mostly being caused by EMI. Those are target responses that are being influenced by ground conditions.

Watch from the 1:20 mark to the 5:50 mark for a short video example of what many of us are talking about.

You can also skip over to the 9:30 mark and watch to the 14:50 mark and see the Equinox 900, Manticore and Deus 2 in action at a different, slightly less iron mineralized site on 5", 6" and 8" US dimes.

Better yet, just enjoy the whole video.

I would like to own an Equinox 900 or a Manticore. Right now, they would not offer an improvement over my Deus 2, Equinox 800 or even my Nokta Legend.

 

Glad you posted this, Jeff.  Makes me wonder who Minelab is giving the betas to for testing before release.  You and Abenson know what you are doing and you have both recognized the problems with these new detectors.

[Jeff McClendon]

On 7/26/2023 at 8:12 AM, Bill (S. CA) said:

Glad you posted this, Jeff.  Makes me wonder who Minelab is giving the betas to for testing before release.  You and Abenson know what you are doing and you have both recognized the problems with these new detectors.

Sounds like Chase and Steve Goss are experiencing similar behavior too which is why they recently posted their experiences. For a little more context, Rattlehead, Daniel TN and others also moved on from the Manticore for similar reasons that were more iron falsing related. Others that I know have abandoned their Nox 900s for similar reasons and gone back to their 800s.

Ground and beach mineralization whether it is iron, salt, alkaline, fertilizer or some other form of extraordinary ground condition makes all VLF detectors a little upset, even simultaneous multi frequency detectors like the Equinox models, Manticore, Deus 2 and the Nokta Legend. From my experience moderate to high iron mineralization really messed up the Whites V3i, DFX and the earlier BBS and FBS Minelabs. That is why the Equinox 600/800 with Multi IQ was such an improvement over what came before especially for hunting in iron mineralization on a wide range of targets and target sizes.

The Manticore and Equinox 700/900 do have better ergonomics, waterproofing (hopefully), shaft and arm cuff quality, and additonal features over the Equinox 600/800. Whether they actually detect significantly better than the original Equinox 600/800 is a real question that I can't answer which is why Chase's title "New Minelab Blues" is so appropriate. All of those great things that Minelab corrected/added compared to the 600/800 are counterbalanced in the negative direction by the real-world performance of the 700/900 and Manticore. 

It's a headbanger for sure. Why Minelab didn't just leave good enough basically alone by doing exactly what Chase said in his post and stuffing the Nox 600/800 with the addition of Pitch tones, flashlight, vibrating hand grip and maybe a slightly expanded target ID range like the Legend, into the new control box housing, shaft system and stock coil with supposedly better coil ears is beyond me.

[abenson]

I haven't given up on the Manticore yet. I am getting to know it better every time I use it. I think the biggest issue is over driving the machine and that goes for the 900 too. AT HC is a real bad program to use in moderate to high mineralization or in nail beds, it's way too sparky. Keeping the sensitivity within the limits of both ground and EMI is another thing to consider. I will usually run my sensitivity up to where is just starts to chatter and then back it off 1 point. If you have EMI noise in the audio you're asking for trouble. At first I hated the update on the Manticore and went back to the old version. But I've been having some conversations with Minelab about the update and have been using it more and more employing some of the features in the update to allow the Manticore to run more stable. Minelab won't admit it but I really think they have done something to the sensitivity with the new update. I can run mine about 2 points higher than before in most places. Stabilizer at 1 can also be used to calm some EMI allowing higher sensitivity settings and it appears to stabilize the ID somewhat without affecting depth.

That being said, the Deus 2 is much more enjoyable to use and I feel more confident in what I'm digging.

[Bill (S. CA)]

It may be just me but I think part of the problem is the rush that all manufacturers are in to get their products into social medial first.  Contrast this to Garrett, who had the good sense to wait until Steve signed off on the Axiom before it was released.  Nokta Makro is the classic example of the "rush to market" mentality.  The Legend was not ready to be released.  Now after so many updates it is proving itself to be a good detector.  But what did it cost their reputation with this flawed approach?

[Jeff McClendon]

Minelab may have upped the sensitivity on the 700/900 too. However, I rarely was able to use mine above sensitivity 22. If I went any higher, the ground noise and/or EMI was off the charts. Using 22 or lower however, made hitting any mid depth to deeper targets a real issue as far as target ID instability. So I got EMI, ground noise and target ID instability with too much sensitivity and target ID instability with too little sensitivity. It didn't matter what search mode I was using or what settings besides sensitivity, ground balance and noise cancel I was fiddling with. There was just no optimal "safe" zone where I could really trust the Nox 900 for basic coin, jewelry and relic hunting where I usually detect. 

The Nox 900 did okay at the two So Cal beaches I tested it on briefly. It was also very good for gold prospecting IF the sensitivity was not too high, like under 20 at the two places I used it.

[phrunt]

The Manticore was certainly a 1 step forward 3 steps back detector, I'm so glad I didn't burn my money on a Nox 900 too, I was very tempted as I love my 800 but the things I love about my 800 the 900 has lost, most importantly target ID stability.  I am rather annoyed that Minelab still market the Manticore as having more stable ID than the Nox 800 as that is the primary reason I bought it and had I have known what I know now I wouldn't have bought it and would have likely just bought a Deus 2 instead and had my more stable ID's.

My last few Minelab purchases have been disappointment's and in my currency I've spent over 10 grand on these last 3 purchases, enough to buy a decent used car.  The first of the 3 was the Pro-Find 35, bitter disappointment, followed by the faulty and buggy GPX 6000, and last but certainly not least the Manticore. 

I haven't given up on the Manticore as I paid so much to get it, in fact I'm trying my best to like it but if I could get a refund on it I would and I'd stick to my CTX and 800.

I don't know who gets these detectors across the line but it appears the finish line is a few miles in the distance yet they release them anyway to get the sales money coming in, a bit like the Legend.

The Pro-Find, 6000 and Manticore, along with by the looks of it the 700 and 900 were not ready for release when they were released.

I'd normally be in a rush to buy the new Minelab pinpointer, but not this time, my experience of the 35 has been terrible, I felt like just throwing it away, no point getting it replaced as the new one is no better, been there done that.

My 6000's been back twice for repairs and one of them took a lot of rallying for Minelab to even acknowledged the fault.

My Manticore appears to have good quality, but certainly doesn't meet what marketing are saying about it.

Does marketing meet expectations?

[Jeff McClendon]

My first target with the Equinox 900 was a 3" to 4" deep US copper Memorial penny. Its target IDs should have been 78 to 81 or so . I was just using default Park 1 with 5 tones and with the horseshoe button engaged for all targets accepted. That 3" to 4" deep copper penny sounded and had target IDs all over the place like a multi denominational coin spill. It went downhill from there.