Carbon Fiber Mid-shaft - Slight Wobble?

[glacialgold]

Hi there-

Has anyone else experienced a slight wobble/looseness with the Legend's carbon fiber mid-shaft?

I got the upgrade kit when it first came out and noticed the carbon fiber version didn't feel as "tight" as the original aluminum version. Nothing major, but a noticeable and annoying wobble and creak, especially when swinging quickly or with a larger coil. I ended up going back to the orginal aluminum as a result. Otherwise I was perfectly pleased with the LG30 coil and new armrest, which were the other two components of the upgrade kit.

Just today I got the longer version of the carbon fiber mid-shaft. I ordered it for a couple reasons, first being I find my swing works best with both the Legend shafts as fully extended as they can be without experiencing wobble. I'm not super-tall by any means (6 foot even), but find I'm most comfortable with a wide swing stance and radius. Second reason for purchasing the long version of the mid-shaft was thinking the extra length could be used keep another inch or so of mid shaft inside upper shaft as additional bracing against wobble.

Turns out the latter idea wasn't true. The longer carbon fiber mid shaft wobbles and creaks as much (or even more so) than the regular length one. Even inserting it as back as possible into the upper shaft still feels loose, and I can actually move the shaft back and forth with the lock mechanism fully engaged. This seems weird because the profile of both the carbon fiber and aluminum shaft and their respective ends appear to be identical in shape and size. (I should also add neither version of the cf mid shaft came with plastic or rubber plug that caps off the lower shaft.)

My low tech/temporary solution was to simply insert a couple wooden toothpicks inside the small gap where the mid-shaft locks into the upper shaft and then break them off, leaving the wooden tips in the gap. This method solved most of the wobble and creaking, but feels quite unsatisfactory as a long term fix.

Anyone else have a better soluption?

[markinswpa]

I suggested an adjustable cam lock on the midshaft. I bought a new version the end of Sept. and the wobble and creaking and even flexing in and out of the mid shaft was very apparent. I contacted Nokta and was told the problem was with the lower shaft. Which they quickly replaced. The replacements finish did not match the original,  The replacement was somewhat better but still has a little flex to it. These days My Legend wears the LG24 so movement is almost unnoticeable but I have to remind myself not to use it as a cane when trying to get up. lol  Other than that I will say I really enjoy using the machine.

[glacialgold]

2 hours ago, markinswpa said:

The replacements finish did not match the original,

Interesting. The longer cf shaft also didn't match the original in terms of finish -- the original cf mid-shaft has a shiny finish, while the longer version is dull.

 

2 hours ago, markinswpa said:

I contacted Nokta and was told the problem was with the lower shaft.

Definitely not the lower shaft in my case. I can disconnect the lower shaft entirely and still make the connected cf mid shaft flex slightly and creak by hand with minimal force. Not the case at all with the original aluminum shaft.

 

2 hours ago, markinswpa said:

Other than that I will say I really enjoy using the machine.

Oh definitely. The wobble and creaking are annoying, but the machine still behaves excellent as always -- it's just hard to get used to the annoyance when the original build was rock solid.

[AirmetTango]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:08 PM, glacialgold said:

Hi there-

Has anyone else experienced a slight wobble/looseness with the Legend's carbon fiber mid-shaft?

….Second reason for purchasing the long version of the mid-shaft was thinking the extra length could be used keep another inch or so of mid shaft inside upper shaft as additional bracing against wobble.

Turns out the latter idea wasn't true. The longer carbon fiber mid shaft wobbles and creaks as much (or even more so) than the regular length one. Even inserting it as back as possible into the upper shaft still feels loose, and I can actually move the shaft back and forth with the lock mechanism fully engaged….

…Anyone else have a better soluption?

Yes, I’ve noticed this issue as well - on two Legends. To make a long story short, my dealer accidentally sent me a used Legend when I purchased mine earlier this year, and both that one (which got sent back) and my brand new one exhibit the wobble and flex. I can also move the shaft segments with the locks fully engaged with a little effort (on both machines).  I’m 6 foot even also, and prefer a longer shaft for a wider than average swing arc. Extending the stock shaft segments to the length I wanted just doesn’t seem to leave enough overlap in the segments and definitely makes matters far worse while the LG30 is attached. Like you, I experimented with leaving extra length of each shaft inside its mate, and for me, it helped - the lower shaft flex and wobble improved to where it’s almost imperceptible, but at the upper/middle shaft junction with extra overlap, it didn’t eliminate the issue enough…there’s still noticeable shift. It isn’t awful, but it is distracting coming from a machine with a two piece, but solid performing, shaft. And of course, with the extra overlap, I can’t quite get the overall shaft extension that I want. So, like you, I bought the longer shaft segments, both lower and upper for use with the LG30. To eliminate the remaining shift, my “long term” solution is a small piece of blue painter’s tape on the bottom side of each shaft segment. This not only eliminates the remaining slop, but also snugs up the fit enough that I can’t move the shafts when they are in the locked position without considerable effort.

The wobble/flex situation doesn’t seem to present itself when I attach the LG24 with the original shafts on my machine.  So I use the original shafts with the LG24, and the “tall” shaft segments with the LG30. The downside with the tall shafts is that the machine isn’t quite as compact when collapsed down. 

Edited: I kept saying the LG28 coil when I meant to be saying the newer LG30 coil. Fixed it!

[AirmetTango]

On 12/20/2023 at 4:43 PM, markinswpa said:

I suggested an adjustable cam lock on the midshaft. I bought a new version the end of Sept. and the wobble and creaking and even flexing in and out of the mid shaft was very apparent. I contacted Nokta and was told the problem was with the lower shaft. Which they quickly replaced. The replacements finish did not match the original,  The replacement was somewhat better but still has a little flex to it. These days My Legend wears the LG24 so movement is almost unnoticeable but I have to remind myself not to use it as a cane when trying to get up. lol  Other than that I will say I really enjoy using the machine.

Adjustable cam locks would be a huge improvement, in my opinion - that’s a great suggestion, Mark. Like I mentioned in my post above, without my painter’s tape addition, I can move the shafts with some pressure even with the locks fully engaged. Adjustable locks would definitely help. I guess it’s not a big deal in terms of day-to-day operation, but it does make me worry how the locks will hold up over the long term with natural wear and tear, especially as dirt or mud gets into the shafts. Looking inside the shafts at how the cam lock functions, you can see there is a small rubber bushing that gets clamped against the side of the cf shaft to provide the friction needed to hold it in place. As that bushing wears, the “loose” friction will only get looser. It would be nice to have an adjustable lock to help compensate for inevitable wear. Maybe not as big of a deal for the cam lock on the middle segment, because you can easily just replace the segment (although annoying to have to put out the extra cash to compensate for a weakness in design). The upper cam lock is a different story though - since it’s fully integrated into the handle and control box, I don’t see how it gets replaced independent of the whole shebang. 

In the meantime, you better believe I’ll be spending time after most hunts disassembling the shaft and making sure those cam locks and bushings are clean.

[glacialgold]

16 hours ago, AirmetTango said:

To eliminate the remaining shift, my “long term” solution is a small piece of blue painter’s tape on the bottom side of each shaft segment. This not only eliminates the remaining slop, but also snugs up the fit enough that I can’t move the shafts when they are in the locked position without considerable effort.

Yep, that's what I wound up doing, as well. A piece of painters tape wrapped around the extended-length mid-shaft replacement about 4" from the top -- right at the desired spot where it locks into the top shaft with sufficient overlap -- completely resolved the wobble/flex.

 

16 hours ago, AirmetTango said:

The downside with the tall shafts is that the machine isn’t quite as compact when collapsed down. 

Downside for me is the midshaft won't collapse into the top shaft at all with the tape solution, so the Legend only compacts down to 36"...unless I remove and replace the tape each time. 36" is exactly the same length as my Nox when collapgsed with the 2-piece CKG cf shaft, which isn't really a big deal for either of them, and especially compared to original Nox shaft configuration. First world problems, I suppose.

[AirmetTango]

8 hours ago, glacialgold said:

Yep, that's what I wound up doing, as well. A piece of painters tape wrapped around the extended-length mid-shaft replacement about 4" from the top -- right at the desired spot where it locks into the top shaft with sufficient overlap -- completely resolved the wobble/flex.

 

Downside for me is the midshaft won't collapse into the top shaft at all with the tape solution, so the Legend only compacts down to 36"...unless I remove and replace the tape each time. 36" is exactly the same length as my Nox when collapgsed with the 2-piece CKG cf shaft, which isn't really a big deal for either of them, and especially compared to original Nox shaft configuration. First world problems, I suppose.

Don’t know if will make a difference for you, but rather than wind the tape all the way around, I just put the tape along the bottom of the shaft segment (see pic). Snugs things up, but I can still collapse and extend the shaft without destroying the tape. The tape in the pic has survived multiple hunts, although you can definitely see it’s worn. In my case, I’m not removing the shaft beyond the tape at all so far…the wear will surely increase when I’m switching regularly to the LG24 since I’ll be swapping out at the middle/upper segment. I’m hoping I won’t need to replace it more than monthly. I have it labeled the way I do because if I extend out any further and any tape is showing, the wobble returns even with the tape applied. It isn’t really visible in the picture, but the little white score line that the shaft segment comes with from the factory (I assume it’s the intended extension limit?) is under the tape, intersecting the “E” in extension and the  “H” in head. So I have 1” less extension than the “factory” limit when using tape…no biggie, I guess - that’s why I’m using the longer shaft.

Silly that we have to resort to using tape on a $500 detector to get it to behave like it should out of the factory. Deja vu with the Equinox original shaft! 🙄 But as you said, first world problems…

 

[TedinVT]

A trick from fly fishing to “tighten up” loose rod ferrules was to slightly roughen up the male part of the ferrule connection then build it up with super glue, smoothing each layer with 400 grit sand paper, until the desired tightened fit was achieved. This might work for the loose carbon fiber shaft problem.

[Zaj56]

I used clear packaging tape . 1 wrap around the shaft at the cam lock. It worked perfectly.. no wobble or creak.. it’s invisible… and still can be collapsed the whole way.