Advice Needed On Buying A Gold Exploration Permit In North Queensland

[Erik Oostra]

I've come across an exploration permit for sale by a gold exploration company for 2 adjacent sub blocks situated in Palmerville Station, North Queensland.. Together the blocks total 6.5 square kilometres, which would be for exclusive use by the prospectors holding the permit.. I've looked up the permit number on the Dept of Mines website and it's owed by the company.. From looking through the records this company holds other gold exploration permits further south and this one is for an area pretty much in the middle of Cape York.. I've talked to the head honcho and he told me the company did surveys two years ago which showed promise but the blocks are too far away from other areas they're currently operating in, hence the sale.. Instead of letting the permit lapse, they decided to sell it and renew the permit in the new prospector's name for another 3 years.. He also told me the permit area was very remote, they didn't want to risk bashing their 4x4s up there and ended up doing the surveys on dirt bikes..

I'd really like to hear from any prospectors who know this area.. Would the pickings be grim there? Would its remoteness not make this venture worthwhile? Is is too good to be true? 

I'll talk to the station manager tomorrow to ask about access, I know the roads up there get flooded during the wet season so it'd be a dry season operation (unless you stockpiled a camp to last you through the wet whilst you kept on flogging the place).. A lot will depend on what the station manager has to say because he can deny access to the permit area..   

The Palmer River region is well known for its gold, in fact the station itself allows prospecting on some parts of their land.. @geof_junk's 'Historical Gold Mines' kmz files for Queensland show about 20 small scale diggings south of the permit area and about 80 to its north.. Geoff's 'New Gold Mines' kmz files show around 30 diggings south-east of the permit area.. As for the company's surveys, he's only send me a few photos of some the gold they supposedly found there (see below) and a GoogleEarth Map showing anomaly hotspots.. When I asked him how much gold the exploration data showed, the honcho said: "the anomalies show gold in stream sediment data. I think it's -80 mesh. There's some rock chips as well with some juice".. 

This is the sales pitch for the advertisement:

Exploration Permit Minerals EPMXXXXX is for sale by vendor. The EPM is 2 subblocks so about 6.5 square KMs, on the highly prospective Palmerville Station at the headwaters of legendary Dog leg Creek. Numerous nuggets have come off this EPM. It's in some steep country so that cuts out all the pretenders. Serious prospectors only. Its total back country so historical mining is limited. Open file mining and exploration data shows there are some hot on target areas and we've only scratched the surface of these areas. All the ingredients are there. Selling because vendor has interests closer to home.

And here's the photos:  

[dig4gold]

Interesting. Maybe Steve Graf is there cleaning it out. Here is his latest upload.

D4G

[Jonathan Porter]

An EPM doesn’t give the holder exclusive rights in QLD. Under QLD law with pastoralists/landowners permission anyone can detect on an EPM which is how the whole Palmerville pay to detect arrangement works. The landholder has the right to give permission with conditions which in the case of Palmerville means NO detecting on pending mining leases even though legally they can be detected on in other areas such as General Permission areas.

I think this rule is currently under review in QLD but is a political hot cake due to two perceptions, one is the frustration of the pending lease owner having pegged the ground then it being targeted by detectorists (hence the rule on Palmerville) but also because the lease is NOT yet granted in the eye of the law there is no ownership until it IS granted which can take many years, this can be frustrating for the peg’ger seeing their pending being smashed hard but also potentially meaning a lot of good ground gets tied up through real-estating and effectively removed from access for detectorists which is in short supply at the best of times.

Currently there are a lot of pending mining leases in QLD including in General Permission areas which is very disturbing for hobbiest detectorists. I see the frustration from both sides due to red tape and bureaucracy. The time taken to grant a lease is extremely long, so I feel for the genuine miners who want to start moving dirt, however Conversely if it were quicker the pegging and selling to make profit would be rife with the potential for a lot of damage done to some areas and less and less ground available for people seeking the freedom to detect. 

An EPM does give the rights to the EPM holder to do sampling and minimal land disturbances and to peg mining leases, this includes under agreement arrangements rights with the landholder to gain access to the ground in the case of a pastoralist not being open to allowing access via the Fossickers Licence arrangements. Currently small miners and prospectors are taking up EPMs for that very purpose hence the for-sales ads. Vast tracts of gold bearing ground in QLD are taken up by EPMs both for Gold and other minerals as well as coal. There are also vast tracts of land that even EPM holders have difficulty accessing due to difficult landholders. Large mining companies just throw huge amounts of money around and get access that way or even just outright buying the pastoral holding, the little guy is slowly being squeezed to death on all fronts, yet they are the people who actually walk the terrain and make a lot of the discoveries.

It’s a complex subject with all parties having a valid POV, pending and current lease holders, pastoralists, serious prospectors and hobbyists.

JP

[Erik Oostra]

 

On 3/11/2024 at 6:08 AM, Jonathan Porter said:

An EPM doesn’t give the holder exclusive rights in QLD. Under QLD law with pastoralists/landowners permission anyone can detect on an EPM which is how the whole Palmerville pay to detect arrangement works. The landholder has the right to give permission with conditions which in the case of Palmerville means NO detecting on pending mining leases even though legally they can be detected on in other areas such as General Permission areas.

 Thank you very much for the detailed explanation JP, it's a bit different of course to how the seller put it, especially about exclusive access.. I'll be talking to the station manager this morning to find out what the go is with access to EPMs on their land.. The whole deal could easily fall through if the landowner won't play ball..

This is an EPM renewal, not an application for a mining lease.. The company wants to renew the exploration permit rather than let it lapse to allow interested prospectors a chance to try their luck.. I got the impression from talking to the head honcho that the permit area is too far away from their other ventures to make it profitable to mine, he did point out that this was NOT because there isn't any gold there.. Their survey in only a small part of the permit area showed promise, I just hope that translates into enough gold to make the venture worthwhile for a small team of prospectors willing to spend three years picking over 6.5 square kms in known gold bearing country.. Sounds a bit like true 'prospecting ' to me.. 🙂 

What do you make of the anomaly map? I won't pretend to understand it but I assume the red dots with high readings are good.. Also is 80 mesh (0.177mm) in stream samples any good? In any case, the map and sampling data gives potential prospectors a basic idea of what areas to target first.. He said all the company's exploration data for this permit area comes with the deal..

Thanks again mate, that's all food for thought.. I'll let you know how it went with the station manager (maybe if you know him, you could put in a good word?).. 

Cheers, Erik.. 

[Erik Oostra]

2 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

An EPM does give the rights to the EPM holder to do sampling and minimal land disturbances and to peg mining leases, this includes under agreement arrangements rights with the landholder to gain access to the ground in the case of a pastoralist not being open to allowing access via the Fossickers Licence arrangements.

Thanks again JP, am just reading about this now.. This is from the 'Explorers Guide to Queensland' brought out by a law firm.. There's not much other info about access to EPMs out there, mining departments are pretty vague or keep changing the rules.. The way these lawyers put it seems pretty clear.. 

https://www.carternewell.com/icms_docs/322262_explorers-guide-to-queensland-3rd-edition.pdf 

[geof_junk]

I only made one claim in Victoria for detecting. Vic rules were easy back then. I would not make another claim anywhere for detecting alone, as every one else knows where it is as JP said and to work the claim by hand had to have 200 Lt of water for fire protection if I had my vehicle parked on it.

At one time we had a Miner Right a lot of that has gone.

https://www.eurekapedia.org/Miner's_Right 

https://vhd.heritagecouncil.vic.gov.au/places/13628/download-report

[Erik Oostra]

3 hours ago, geof_junk said:

I would not make another claim anywhere for detecting alone, as every one else knows where it is

I'm hoping that this permit area is too remote for the average scavenger to have a go.. But its inaccessibility could also make the whole venture hard going unless you're happy with bush camps and plenty of scrambling around in rough steep country.. Would these hardships be worth it? The permit area's isolation away from the company's other ventures made it unprofitable for them to mine.. But just a few ounces of gold would easily cover the cost of taking over this EPM, government fees and the first year's rent ($330/year).. While the asking price for this exploration permit reflects this area's remoteness, it's the costs of getting to the gold that potential prospectors have to account for (just like a mining company).. 

Until I get more promised geo data from the company and hear back from the cattle station, this whole idea is just a lovely dream.. But there's also a few much better qualified and experienced prospectors than me (not hard on both counts) who are also interested.. Between us we're already working out detectors and solar panels and slide-on campers for the back of 4x4s.. We're also working out the cost of fortnightly prospecting trips up there during the dry seasons.. So far the costs and logistics for food, water and fuel are mind boggling, we'd need to find a fair bit of gold to cover costs.. There's a few cattle dams for water (and a wash) about a hour drive away but no firearms in the permit area means hunting is out.. There's good fishing in rivers about 2 hours away.. When supplies run out, we'd have to go back to a small town about 4 hours away along tracks that even dirt-bikes have a hard time grappling with.. Rise, Repeat, until Rich.. Sounds great to me.. 😁

 

    

[geof_junk]

Eric it is a dream adventure/trip and take it as such. If you forget the gains that maybe found it is worth it, a cheap ship cruise is about is about $2000 to $5000 a week for 2 people with no return from luck or skill except on the pokies and cards.

Just one thing I had all the historical mines locations and extensive GPS use and Knowledge before I went to  West Aust in 2003 when I retired. A lot of local Pro. gold prospectors were asking me for gps location of certain mines which I help them locate. I found many unknown spots but someone else had been in the area. There was a few lucky ones that got most of the gold and fortunately a few unlucky ones that missed the gold that made my efforts more than paid off..   

[Norvic]

Yeah there`s a reason why these areas are so difficult to get into, it just isn`t wise for local detector operators to broadcast either their locations and their finds or for Property Owners to repair the tracks. Nor wise to drive off the tracks either because every Tom, Dick & Harry will follow your tracks, and as Geof_J posted it isn`t wise to take out any sort of title as that just broadcasts where you are. Leave just footprints and cover your holes as best you can or you`ll be followed. All you need in QLD is a current Fossickers License and the Property Owners private permission to fossick on their land, as set out by that Fossicking License. That area is not too remote.

Just the rambling of an old time FNQer, as Geof_J also posted tis an adventure take it as such and enjoy magic remote FNQ.

[Erik Oostra]

40 minutes ago, geof_junk said:

Eric it is a dream adventure/trip and take it as such. If you forget the gains that maybe found it is worth it, a cheap ship cruise is about is about $2000 to $5000 a week for 2 people with no return from luck or skill except on the pokies and cards.

That's the way we're looking at it too.. The permit lasts for 3 years, that gives us 3 wet seasons to prospect 6.5 square kilometres of land in a region well known for its gold.. The costs of buying the permit, government fees and one year rent come in under the cost of a week ship cruise for 2 people.. And like a ship cruise, if my amazing luck holds a bit longer (and with a lot of hard labour) this adventure could be worthwhile.. Even not, we'd still have a great time in an awesome part of the county.. 

When I used your kmz files to work out gold diggings around this permit area, I did think about how many other punters were also using them for the same reason.. Just hoping the area's remoteness keeps them at bay..