Keith Southern Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hey Kenny glad you enjoy the AT-GOLD.. Fine machine for sure... I must say I have tested out alot fo detectors for unmasking over the years and thye have progressed slowly but surely... in the last few years manufacturers have started to realized theres more in the iron sites to be found and started to offer us the detectorist instrument's to combat the situation head on... What is it we need to go head on in a iron hole type site... 1-Higher freq's(18-25 Khz is the norm now)... 2-Ability to break tone on the most troublemsome iron ...In most cases Nail's the number one site masker in the world... 3-fast shutdown on target's.Greater seperation 4-minimal filtering of target signal's...in other words we need bleedy rejection not clean rejection... 5-Tight superior designed DD coil's 6 Iron Volume audio...this is useful when you are in abundance of iron like nails and you have broken your tone right at nail..So now it break low to high tone at this spot.but with iron volume we can control the low tone output for a less fatiguing hunt... The AT series from Garrett are leading edge...though they lack SOME of the top shelf feautures mentioned above for a true site machine, I can promise you they do VERY VERY well in the iron...especially with the 5x8 DD BT coil installed.... The At series also takes well to a more negative ground balance in disc mode than some machines are able to achieve.Why negative? Well if the dirt is bad enough smaller and or deeper targets can be called iron and at tiems if the dirt issevere enough they dont have to be deep to be signaled as iron... But a bit of a negative ground bal can help you SEE THROUGH the mineral a bit better....And luckily the AT series is able to run a good but begaitve wiht the excellent DD design they have and still have an Intelligent hunt... Next time out wiht your AT try some differnet ground settings than normal and notice how it changes the sensitivity to different conductor's..... I may aslo add once you really get into trying to work a site to its fullest potential that is full of iron you may want make sure you allow the Iron audio to remain on...Why? Well when you allow the iron audio to report instead of null like a regular disc circuit does you are keeping the audio gate open constantly and you are not having to start up and shut down in an iron saturated site....You just get your sweep speed right and allow the full audio report to flow through the headphone's...Also by doing this you can get a clearer picture of the rejected target...in this case iron... Some will say put disc on zero and and let the machine set the tone break but thast really a no-no for any serious unmasking and site unlocking...you need to fine tune the disc/Tone break for the individual site and evn ground setting to achieve the best result's... One thing unique to the AT is that there not the fastest like the XP GMP or DTVG or DEUS or T2/F75 and such but they are able to Blend up target's with a audio that in my opinion is second to none and also uncanny for a digital machine to posses.. I have a video I did of the AT on a dollar gold piece...it shows the need for the iron audio to be ON for the ultimate unlock. Please take a look Keith 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveg Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Keith -- EXCELLENT video! VERY interesting. A question...I have a Fisher Gold Bug Pro right now; the one thing I like about the AT Pro and Gold are that they are waterproof -- thus no worries when hunting in the rain. But -- that's not enough of a reason for me to switch machines at this point. In your opinion (Keith, or Steve, or whomever else has used both), is there any advantage to me switching from the GB Pro to the AT Pro or AT Gold in terms of performance in iron? I will be doing only rare/occasional gold prospecting with the machine; occasionally, I'll use it for coin hunting in a park-type setting, though usually that's where I use my Minelab Explorer. Most often, though, where I use the Gold Bug Pro now (and where I'd use the AT Pro or Gold) would be in a relic site, trying to unmasktargets in the dense iron, along the lines of what you are showing in the video here. Is there any advantage to the AT Pro, or the Gold, vs. the Gold Bug Pro? I think these units all do alot of the same things; that being said, one of the best "iron hunters" I know personally, hunts with the AT Pro and he does REALLY well pulling non-ferrous targets out of thick iron. He continually impresses me when we hunt together; some of it is his many more years of experience as compared to me, but I wonder if the machine gives him an edge over my GB Pro, as well, in terms of unmasking... Thoughts?Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathray Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Good write up snd video Keith. I wish the iron audio was adjustable on the AT. I cant run mine in iron on, Gives me a headache. Steve,not thatthis means much,but I have both and pretty much stick with the GBPro most the time. My son has taken over the AT,he loves it. I do seem to notice the GB seems to find more lead, AT more coin type targets when comparing finds at end of the day. If you hunt sites with an abundance of old rusty tin pieces and bottle caps,its easier to i.d. them with the AT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Southern Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Ray brings up some valid points. The AT Gold seems like a coin machine turned into a prospector via the addition of the all metal threshold based mode being added to the AT Pro The AT gold in disc mode mirrors the AT Pro.. The gold bug Pro or G2 seems like a Gold machine turned into a dual purpose machine... In other words both do dual duty as prospectors and coin jewelry through I.D. ability and full disc modes but they have different DNA. The G2 acts more like a 18khz machine in the targets it prefers..and the way it behaves..The AT Gold Seems to act more like a lower grew machine in regards to it likes coins..These observations mind you are from the disc mode... I actually noticed the 15 khz At Pro can act like a lower frequency machine...but this is not a bad thing..even though they both are hot on coins the AT Gold has a prospecting mode with added Tools for perfromance..like I.d. In all metal through audio and it's very conservative in its iron I.d so as not to call gold iron....ground window very unique and at times in bad dirt can be godsend if used with knowledge..adjustable threshold again paramount for small gold.. so in the end the both in all metal mode will be good prospectors..user skill for prospecting will be the decider I feel more than the battle between which is better than the other..LOL.. but if both are ran on disc mode G2 Vs AT Gold I personally feel and have noticed the G2 likes smaller thinner targets to a slight degree and on the other end of the spectrum the AT has a edge on coin type targets.. I actually think the G2 is complimented by the Omega when working a site.. I feel the AT Gold is a good standalone unit when working a site.. I lean to specialty detectors myself..Like best unmasked best depth best mineral handling ability..best I.d. and no one machine Does all those things.. but I can say for the money and the performance that is achieved and the ability to do it all quite well with an audio that is conveying the AT series especially the Gold is very adaptive and once understood and learned properly it can be very much a great prospector and a great unmasker .. Yes there better unmasker and there's better prospectors but like anything else in detecting fringe targets require a skilled mindset be they isolated small gold or intermingled non ferrous in ferrous and the edge advantage machines come into play for what I like to call the final pull on sites At first the best machine for the required job may not be overly apparent because you are not yet sure what your trying to do and things of advantage may not be noticable..Right tool for the Job can come to mind.Yet the gaps seem to be closing..multi purpose can really get close to dedicated machines now-a- days.so the edges are not as easily seen unless you are really pushing the boundaries on your hunts.. But yes the Garretts are WORTH THE MONEY.. Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Herschbach Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Ray brings up some valid points. The AT Gold seems like a coin machine turned into a prospector via the addition of the all metal threshold based mode being added to the AT Pro. The AT gold in disc mode mirrors the AT Pro.. The gold bug Pro or G2 seems like a Gold machine turned into a dual purpose machine... In other words both do dual duty as prospectors and coin jewelry through I.D. ability and full disc modes but they have different DNA. I would say that hits the nail on the head. If you just lean one way or the other based on what the primary use of the machine will be it is hard to go wrong. I prefer my Gold Bug Pro to the AT Gold for prospecting simply because it focuses more on that task and I do not like changing coils on the AT Gold. This will tell you how highly I think of the AT Pro and AT Gold however. The only reason I sold my AT Gold is because I have a CTX 3030 and for me they served the same purpose. Waterproof coin and jewelry detector. If I had to trade the CTX for something else it would be the AT Gold. The fact is I believe the AT Gold or AT Pro compare very favorably with the CTX 3030 and that says a lot. They are a couple super bang for the buck detectors. I was using my Gold Bug Pro in wet brush the other day though and water dripping off the brush got a bit of moisture in the box and the display fogged up. The attractions of waterproof are obvious. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathray Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 The coil connection is my BIGGEST gripe about the AT's!! What kindof minifingered vice grip person came up with that design???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddmk6 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Very cool video Keith, thank for sharing. Your detailed explanations in your posts really helped make some things click today when I was doing a little searching. I had to drop my truck off for some service today and I had a couple hours to kill waiting to pick it up. There just happens to be some old abandoned houses in the lot next door :-) I played around with the negative ground balance and the sensitivity settings in all modes. Some pretty cool results. I found another pocket full of pennies, but also tested with my little piece of gold. I may have been a little hasty in my opinion of the AT gold in my previous post. The ground was pretty mild with a GB of 76. I adjusted the ground balance with about 3 clicks negative (so around 73) and the sensitivity one notch down from full. The machine would detect the small nugget in all 3 modes (granted not as strong in disc modes), but what was cool was the neither iron audio or the graph once showed iron. The graph was still inconsistent ranging from 45 to 90, but never once dropped into the iron range. This was true for all 3 modes. When running an even ground balance, the piece of gold would activate the iron audio and of course drop into the iron range on the graph as well. I think the coolest thing today was finding a nickel. Just an ordinary 1971 nickel that was about 3" deep. What was so interesting about it was that another couple inches below the nickel was a rusted tin can, directly underneath it. I was definitely impressed. Granted when the signal hit, I had no idea what the target was but I could tell there was something unique or separate signals. When looking at the graph a solid part of the signal was in the range I will dig, so after it I went. I popped the nickel out then rechecked the hole and heard the other signal still there. I just had to grin when I uncovered the can and the whole picture came to light. I'm going to second what Ray said about the iron tone. What a wonderful thing it would be to be able to turn it down a notch. Or maybe just make it trigger a red light or something. It definitely overloads my ears. Thank you for everyones comments and opinions. It really helps reading all of this and picking up little bits here and there. This machine is really going to be fun when I get to the point of comfort and consistent results. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Southern Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hey Kenny.. Sounds like things are starting to click for you!!! one of the things I mentioned earlier was that the AT series is a lot of bang for the buck especially working iron... There is some other unmasking options that are the complete package..DEUS...Gold max Power..Deeptech Vista Gold....those 3 are in their own leauge..Top rung..yet specialized for iron site unlocking on the most advanced level to date..And they offer the iron tone volume that you would like to see...but those machines also offer high resolution iron disc...by this I mean say on your AT a nail takes 1 to 2 points to become from high to low tone...imagine taking that and expanding that spread to say 10 points to remove it completely to the iron tone...thats where extra benefits cab be seen for unmasking..Instead of a nail dropping to low tone from high tone in one number you instead take the nail out piece by piece for simplistic terms.. why is the important? The less disc you can bring to bear on say the nail the better your chance of locating smaller and or lower conductors thst are collated with the nail... Out of all the machines available for intelligent site work the Gold Max Power is the Apex design for that purpose..followed by the Deep Tech Vista Gold.. One thing to note is both that both those machines are built in Europe...they are combating iron unmasking head on ..The American manufacturers are catching up yet not quite on deck ....YET....but that will be changing SOON...Your iron tone Volume Control is closer than you think ..I just hope they decide to expand the iron range to high resolution.. I'm not saying your AT will have iron volume but American Machines will soon.. That's what the company's now know..that there's more lying in iron that can be dug in the supposedly hunted out spots... One 3 inch long nail 2 inches deep will cancel out a silver dollar under it at 7 or 8 inch deep.. Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick K - First Member Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Let's see ----- There's a recent American detector with iron volume control - but aimed at the entry level European market. The same company makes a couple of machines with wide iron discrimination ranges (although not as wide as the trio Keith named). The same company's top two detectors are about due an overhaul - as is their Gold detector. Hmmmm - maybe the maximum utility of VLF detectors hasn't been reached after all. Usable discrimination and target separation in gold nugget bearing ground where buried ferrous trash makes finding small gold a matter of digging everything - that would be something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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