Is The Day Of A Single Frequency Detector Past ?

[Rick K - First Member]

Not just multi frequency (either simultaneous or sequential) but new methods of analysis of the returned signal by sampling multiple signals or time slices of signals.

The remaining problems to be solved in our hobby are reliable iron ID at depth especially in mineralized soil (or more correctly correct ID of non ferrous) and iron “see through” to detect the presence of non ferrous adjacent to or below ferrous targets.

Current multifrequency systems help with the first problem, but do little or nothing with the second.

I believe that this is significant in an era where the sites we have access to have been gone through with lots of different machines.

Traditional one frequency at a time frequency domain detectors offer literally nothing new.  They work just fine - and do what they have always done - nothing more.

[Guest Tnsharpshooter]

Well,

Evidently my squirrel inside my Nox was a running around today. Lol

Here’s one thing that stands out to me using Equinox.

Now I have done loads of head to heads comparing Equinox 800 to other detectors mostly single freakers

When Equinox detects a target and gives tone, I cannot really tell how mask or tough to detect it  is really.  With single freq detectors I can tell lots of times.

The best way for me to judge how tough the target is to detect is when I actually put certain single freqs detector models over.

So the moral of my story here.

I am KEEPING my gimmick!! 

 

[Geotech]

On 11/18/2018 at 10:50 AM, Dubious said:

So you saw only two frequencies for each mode?  What method did you use for coupling the signal?  Did you take any screen shots?

Yes. I used a magnetic field probe I designed & built. There are at least 2 threads on Geotech discussing all this, including scope pics.

[Geotech]

On 11/18/2018 at 11:16 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

I am quite certain myself that if it turns out Equinox works because there is a small squirrel inside the control box that makes all the decisions it will still continue to perform for me tomorrow just like it did yesterday. Good luck to all of you trying to litigate marketing statements with engineering reality. The fact is I sure don’t know how it works... I just know it works. 

That is a fair statement, and if what I have to compete with is performance, I am happy to do so. But some people buy into the gee-whiz factor more so, and if I come out with a 3-frequency detector they're gonna ask why I couldn't do 5, or 17, or 28 frequencies. Things no one else has done, either. The only way I can compete with false claims is to trump them with more false claims of my own, something that never benefits the end-users, and personally offends my sense of ethics besides. Instead, I'll just state the truth and do the best I can.

[Steve Herschbach]

53 minutes ago, Geotech said:

That is a fair statement, and if what I have to compete with is performance, I am happy to do so. But some people buy into the gee-whiz factor more so, and if I come out with a 3-frequency detector they're gonna ask why I couldn't do 5, or 17, or 28 frequencies. Things no one else has done, either. The only way I can compete with false claims is to trump them with more false claims of my own, something that never benefits the end-users, and personally offends my sense of ethics besides. Instead, I'll just state the truth and do the best I can.

We are all rooting for you Carl. The problem will be that you have your own marketing people, and they also like to obscure facts. The T2+ and F75+ were not exactly examples of clarity in marketing, and honestly left a bad taste in my mouth. Minelab sure is not a box full of saints, but there is enough nonsense to go around from what I see. We have Nokta /Makro selling a selectable frequency machine as multifrequency, ignoring industry convention. How many people bought an F75+ thinking it really was an improvement on the F75? How many people are buying a Multi Kruzer thinking they are getting a multifrequency detector? Minelab is not an isolated party when it comes to making marketing claims that obscure the facts.

If I were you I would not worry. There are plenty of pragmatists like me who will gravitate to whatever works, regardless of who makes it, to win the day. Lots of people really are rooting for First Texas and waiting for whatever you are working on. It just can't be the F75++ 

[Dubious]

1 hour ago, Geotech said:

Yes. I used a magnetic field probe I designed & built. There are at least 2 threads on Geotech discussing all this, including scope pics.

Thanks, I'll find and read those threads.

[Ridge Runner]

Geotech ( Carl )

The day First Texas comes out with a true Multifrequency detector let me know. I will drive from San Antonio to El Paso with money in hand and buy it .

I will also treat you to a steak dinner.

I wish you well on this endeavor.

Chuck

PS Maybe it will go from First Texas to Texas First .

[Dubious]

I think we're all more pragmatist than not.  But, I'm mystified as to why Minelab even saw the need to mislead.  I don't mind puffery--"obsoletes all single frequency detectors," "our machine is the best," etc.--but suggesting the Equinox is something new because it uses five frequencies "simultaneously" makes a specific claim.  My cynical suspicion is that Minelab probably did try to do five frequencies simultaneously but somewhere during development found there just wasn't going to be enough horsepower under the hood (cpu speed, etc.) to do the processing effectively in anything approaching real-time, and had to reduce the number to two.  Of course, this raises the question as to the degree (if any) that performance is curtailed as a result.  Minelab itself states there is an advantage in using multiple frequencies because that produces more data points to analyze.  

Well, the Equinox still works, still has modern features, and still provides bang for the buck.  But, Multi-Q now appears even more like FBS than it did.  The main difference between it and FBS, which also apparently uses two fundamental frequencies at a time, may turn out to be that it just has a few higher fundamental frequencies from which to choose, allowing it to do better on some lower conductors.

[Steve Herschbach]

Start driving Chuck - Carl will be waiting for you along with your new Fisher CZ-3D (Multiple-Frequency transmit, Dual Frequency Processing VLF Search 5 KHz and 15 KHz)