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Monte

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Monte last won the day on September 26 2016

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About Monte

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  • Birthday May 21

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Location:
    Vale, Oregon, USA
  • Interests:
    Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting and of course Research since March of 1965.
  • Gear Used:
    MAKRO .. NOKTA .. TESORO and WHITE'S

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  1. Mike H. and Steve H., I have also looked at search coil designs a lot through the years and have been irritated by marketing ideas that mess things up. The Five-point-Three labeling is one of them. Yes, someone thought it smart to reference the Transmit winding in the coil's name, but before they did that they had still been making the very same Concentric design in the very same size/shape coil housing and calling it the Blue Max 600. Nobody seemed to have a problem with that and bought that search coil seeing that it appeared to be about 6" in diameter and the '600' in the name kind of suggested that. It was kind of a 'problem' for me because the coil physically measures about 6½", not 6". But, as has been mentioned before, most manufacturers generally make a reference to a search coil's outside physical measured size ... or come close I guess. Regardless of what they call the coil, what color the decal is, or the diameters of both internal Tx and Rx windings, one thing I do know for a fact is all of the search coils White's has put in that housing ... be them for the 6.59 kHz Classic's or XLT or XL Pro, or the 'Eclipse' series for the MXT's, M6, MX-5 and other models, or the newest that has the connector for the new MX-7 and MX Sport ... work excellent in a wide range of applications, and can provide impressive depth-of-detection for their size. Wanting something just a little bigger and closer (internally) to a correct outside diameter such as a 7" Concentric coil? Well, that might not be a bad idea, either. I look over at my 'Detector Team' here in my den and I can spot two 7" Concentric coils that are mounted and ready for use. One solid-design coil on my low-end Tesoro Mojave, and the other a 'modern' open-frame design on my high-end Nokta Impact. Personally, I haven't a single problem with the internal coil winding size or the outside label they put on it, White's 6"/6½" Concentric coil has won my admiration for performance afield. I saw in-house an open-frame design that they could have been followed through on that would have made a nice replacement, and if I recall it was about a 6" coil. Now, If, and I mean a big IF, White's set out to make a new coil, and chose a 7" diameter, I would really like it to be an open-frame design along the lines of the Nokta 7" Concentric. But I kind of doubt, at this time in the life of White's, that there is very much focus on developing a brand new search coil. I guess I'll just stick to what I have on the end of my MX-7 and enjoy it since I know what to expect when I take it afield. Monte
  2. Mike, Tardy getting here. I've been busy detecting with some breaks in the winter weather and using the 6½" Concentric coil most of the time. So, let's get to the 6½" coil topic ... AGAIN... even though I have discussed this on many different forums for a couple of decades now. For fifty-three years of metal detecting and using countless brands and models and a wide array of search coils, it has almost always been the norm to describe a search coil by its physical outside measurement. That is done to make a general, industry-wide base for comparison as well as to let the user know what sort of confined spaces a coil might or might not fit in. White's, and many other manufacturers, have made 8" diameter search coils. That is the actual measured diameter of the search coil (housing) not including a coil cover. There might be subtle differences, like ±⅛" or ± ¼", and they round it to 8". As I have stated before, we can get marketing people involved and that can mess things up, as it did for two White's search coils. Back when they brought out the Quantum II and Quantum XT, they used the 8" coil on the Quantum II, but they changed the decal and renamed the coil a 7.8. It was simply a marketing thing. This was done at the same time they took their white-housing 600 Blue Max coil and changed the plastic color to black and relabeled it the 5.3 Black Max. In a short period that was changed to the 5.3 BullsEye for the 6.59 kHz models, and 5.3 Eclipse was made for the MXT series and DFX and models to follow. This goes back to a period of approximation that was then influenced my marketing ideas to try and have something 'new' or 'different.' The 600 Blue Max was interesting in itself. It wasn't 6.00, to maybe suggest Six . Zero Inches, it was simply '600.' Six-hundred what? Without any decimal point or fractional reference, it was a vague '600' something, but '600 'what? We accepted it to imply a 6" diameter, just as White's used '800' to reference their 8" diameter search coils. A reference to the outside diameter. The goofy 5.3 idea was supposed to refer to the inside Transmit winding diameter to be different. Well, it was. It made a lot of people NOT be interested in it because they felt it was too small, thinking the overall-size was just over 5¼". And you asked me: "Show me the windings inside a 5.3 eclipse coil and then tell me that its a 6.5" coil. " Okay ... IT IS A 6½" DIAMETER COIL. You then stated: "There is a reason its called a 5.3 and it has nothing to do with 6-1/2 inches." Correct. It has to do with the fact they kind of named it for the internal diameter of the Transmit winding rather than use the customary external, physical diameter of 6½", but doing so is misleading to the consumers looking for any coil in a particular physical size. I asked three different engineers on three or four occasions after they had changed the name from '600'o '5.3' to do me a favor. Most shoppers don't even measure the coils, they simply go my the manufacturer's name to get an idea of the size, and now, I asked them, you have confused the issue my using the measurement of the Transmit winding, is that correct? They replied Yes. So I asked about that five-point three measurement, since it is supposed to be so important, a for them to tell me if that was the physical l]measurement from the center of the ending to the center of the winding? Or was it from the inside diameter of the winding to the inside diameter on the opposite side, or, perhaps it was a measurement from the outside of the winding across to the outside of the winding on the opposing side? I couldn't get a clear answer and was told they would have to actually measure it. I told them as engineers they ought to know, if it was all important, but to the consumers, they want to know what a physical measurement is. You asked if I've seem the inside of the coils and Yes, I have numerous times. Other coils too, such as the '950 you mentioned. You refer to it as a '950' coil, which it is named, but have you seen the inside of the coil? Have you measured the Transmit winding and does the coil's name reflect that winding size? For whatever reason, White's was quite comfortable referring to that coil, back in the 600 Blue Max era, as a 6" diameter coil. It is certainly closer to that than a 5.-anything. And I use 6½ Inch because I can easily use a ruler or tape measure and get a measurement and note what is either spot-on or rounded to a reasonably close physical measurement and call it as I see it. This excellent size Concentric coil that I have made use of for many, many years on a wide range of White's detectors is, physically, a 6½" Concentric coil and that's what I'll call it. I might slip after it is released as I don't doubt that White's will likely round the size measurement to 6" instead of 6½ and I'll call it a 6". I like the 6½" Concentric better than the 7" DD Detech after-market coil, and the 950 is 'OK' for more open-area searches. I do wish, however, they would dump that 'puffy' 950 coil and bring us the 9" Concentric 'spider' type coil. It would also be a nice coil for both land and water hunting. Monte
  3. New To Me VX3

    Buzzard, 'V3i/MXT Pro' gave you some suggestion that might be helpful. I know that I tinkered wy the VX3 I had early-on to get it to work a bit better than the factory default settings, but to be honest, as I like to be, it just didn't satisfy me for where I usually hunt. It didn't matter which coil I worked on it, it was 'Okay' buy it wasn't great or exciting. It lacked what I wanted or needed in performance. I won't twist your arm, but for a land-hunting detector that is light and well balanced, 'simple' to operate and adjust, and a very decent performer afield, I have to recommend the new MX-7, plus get a smaller coil for it. I enjoy the 6½ Inch Concentric that is due for release soon and it's my primary-use coil. The 950 and 7" DD are very capable 'back-up' or 'specialty use' coils in my arsenal as well. I keep one of them on my 2nd MX-7 for different hunting needs. All the best to you, and Merry Christmas! Monte
  4. New To Me VX3

    Ah, the good old days of Relco, Jetco, and a flurry of entry level low-enders. Memories to end the year with. If you have an 'original' MXT then you have an 'OK' Coin Hunting detector. If the coils for your MXT are 'V' rated , then they can also work on your VX3. 'Test gardens" are, well, okay in a way, but the real tests will come when you work a detector/coil combo afield. Personally, I found the V3i to be too 'busy' and favored the VX3 that I used to use, for a short while, but gave up on both of them because they usually had a quirky sweep speed dependent operation, and the GB was not as smooth and forgiving like the MXT Pro/All-Pro or even the MX-5. However, I have a friend who really enjoys his V3i, after putting in a lot of field time and having a lot of patience to get to know it well. He also has an M6 that got him started, and an MX Sport that he prefers and uses most of the time now. Hang in there and get to learn and know the VX3 well. I hope it works out for you. Monte
  5. Chuck, I didn't care for the MX Sport's release for one reason and that was there was not a smaller-size search coil. Then they introduced the 7" DD from Detech and I tried it on a couple of MX Sport units earlier this year, and it did some of what I wanted a smaller-size search coil to do. I just wanted a land-based model. Then a few weeks ago I drove across-state to buy my first MX-7, at which time I also bought the 7" Detech DD and some accessories, and also was provided a freshly assembled 6½ Inch Concentric coil. It needed to be put together and sealed, and came w/o a decal, so I had my oldest son design a custom decal for me when he got the halves sealed together. That decal is seen in the link as Steve H. provided above, and shown here. Also, a reminder for those not familiar with how marketing folks get involved with naming products: The former White's coils labeled 600 Blue Max, 5.3 Black Max, 5.3 BullsEye and 5.3 Eclipse are NOT a physical 5.3 anything! Physically, to our eyes as we view them, these excellent search coils measure closer to 6½ Inches in diameter. Also, the search coil decals used in the past didn't tell the consumer what the internal winding configuration was, whether Concentric or Double-D. As seen, the decal my son made for me for my MX-7 "tells it like it is" by describing the size/diameter, as 6½ Inch, as well as the internal layout of the coil's windings, as a Concentric coil type. I believe you might re-think your feelings about owning and using this excellent size and type search coil, if you get an opportunity to check out the new 6½ Inch Concentric coil against your 7" Detech DD. I don't mind owning both of these coils, plus the standard 950 Concentric, but the 6½ Inch Concentric equipped MX-7 will see more field-time, to be sure, and I'l alternate between the 7" Double-D and 950 Concentric on my 2nd MX-7. Mainly keeping the 7" DD mounted for the next 3-4 months just to do side-by-side comparisons between these two closely-sized search coils on naturally located targets afield. Monte
  6. Steve, I agree that these series of smaller Concentric search coils could be made with a thinner, flat-bottom design with a different bottom half. They could also make them in an open-frame design, and I know at one time when Carl M. was there, he had such a prototype configuration he showed me and I was getting my hopes up ... but up-line they said to put it on the back burner. WAaaay back I guess. There is, however, a benefit for some people by using the thicker-bodied, semi-dome shaped lower-portion 6½" Concentric coil, and that is on some models for many hunting applications, het helps maintain a proper, or better, coil-to-ground relationship which can help eliminate overload. Most manufacturers today use a higher gain or Sensitivity level that some of their former models, and that can create an 'overload' or warping of the EMF due to intense ground mineralization. It can also cut down on some 'overload' caused by being too close to metal objects. Most detector manuals will suggest working the search coil about 1" to 2" off the ground, and the thicker-bodied 6½" Concentric helps detecting folks do that. Search coils shouldn't be scrubbed on the ground but instead worked a small distance off the ground, and the 6½" coil design helps keep the internal windings at a or functional distance. Monte
  7. Vaq Black

    RickUK on 11/12: Interesting topic especially as i also have a Vaquero but its the UK version called the 'Laser Trident11 Extreme' the difference here is that the normal UK Vaquero ie Trident 11 is basically the same as the US Vaquero. What makes the 'Extreme' version which is a modded version made by the UK service/repair centre Pentechnic is that it has been slightly modified inside and also a few other additions,fine tuning and basically its a 'steroid' version of the standard Vaquero,the freq is 18.5khz or possibly 19khz i stand too be correct on the 19 khz comment,but this is mainly aimed at our small silver hammered coinage and that is the main reason over the 14khz of a normal version of the machine,also it has the higher tone modification and also has a fixed and manual GB facility,one other major visual difference is that they also have the 'Tejon' battery box on which is 8x1.5v rather than the 1 9v battery. ... Rick, I had heard about an operating frequency difference and just checked a Pentechnic as that reads as follows: New features include: 12v Battery System - 14Khz search frequency Hi-Tone audio and more....... MicroMAX design - All metal mode - Microprocessor technology - Frequency shift Silent search Disc mode - Ground Balance Control - Fixed or adjustable ground balance 11"x 8" 2D Widescan Searchcoil OR 8.5" 2D Widescan Searchcoil Price includes Coil Cover, Batteries & UK delivery I think someone made an error at some point because most of what I have heard from people over in the UK, as with this Pentechnic ad, is that the Trident II Extreme works at a similar frequency to the USA offered Vaquero. That would be 14.5 kHz in the center toggle position, and 14.3 or 14.7 if it is off-shifted to the left or right. Also in their ad the said they modified it to the ED-180 Discriminate rather than the standard ± ED-165 RickUK on 11/12: Mine came with the 11x8 coil on although you can of course stipulate the 9x8 Concentric coil or even any other coil combination as you wish,but i was not sure about the 11x8 coil for some time,but it has grown on me over time,i also have and use alot the NEL Snake coil 6.5x3.5'' for really trashy roman/saxon sites this combination on the trashy sites makes it a deadly combination,especially when you have a field that has roman hob nails on from the roman shoes,but the small coil allows you too pluck decent roman coinage from between these beds of nails.... I like the 8X11 DD in wide-open areas, and it can achieve some respectable depth-of-detection. Most often, however, I prefer the smaller 6" round Concentric coil. I have used some of the mid-sized coils from NEL and CORS, and have a CORS Fortune, new in the box, to go with a new Vaquero I am going to sell. I know a lot of folks like the mid-sized DD coils, but I don't use them on any Tesoro models. Only the 6" Concentric, the 7" Concentric on the Mojave, and the 8X11 DD on my Vaquero. RickUK on 11/12: One of the main reasons that i bought a Vaquero or UK variation is that its ultra lightweight even with the 11x8 coil on it,i have wrist problems with my detecting arm and it makes no odds how hard i try with the other arm which is good,it just aint happening,the left arm just does not do the same as my regular detecting arm.Also of course the legendary Tesoro/Laser discrimination albeit its really optimised when using a Concentric coil but its pretty good also with the WS coils as well.... For over half-a-century I have used many detectors, and as light as the newer Tesoro models can be, I just can't get my left arm & hand to work a detector and coil like my well-trained right arm and hand do. As I mentioned, I use Concentric coils most of the time, and prefer them in trashier sites I hunt. The 8X11 RSDD coil isn't too bad, but my aging and falling apart old self does limit the duration I can work the Vaquero with that coil. If you have the Trident II Extreme in the Tejón rod and battery configuration, that little extra battery housing and weight might help with some of the nose-heavy feel I get from the 8X11. RickUK on 11/12: It will never be my main machine,no Tesoro will ever achieve that for sure,its a site specific use machine in my book and its good for that use only really,do i have other machines ?? yes i do infact i have many many machines once again some are for everyday use like say my Deus and T2,but i also have site specific use machines as well for depth ie hoard hunting that crown belongs too my Nexus machines and also Pulse machines for a couple of very highly mineralised sites,and a tremendous selection of coils for these detectors that i own/use,are they all used the answer is 'yes' of course some are used many times during the year and other's just a few times but the all earn there keep in some way.... Like you, my Tesoro models serve more specific applications for me. I parted with my T2 and White's and other makes and models in January of '15 when I switched my Target ID/Tone ID detector team over to the Nokta FORS CoRe. I still have a White's MX5 in my Specialty-Use battery where I assigned the Makro Racer 2, but my Primary-Use Detector team is made up of my CoRe, Relic and two Impacts by Nokta along with my three Tesoro models. RickUK on 11/12: The Vaquero is a good reliable lightweight workshorse and brings a smile and alot of enjoyment factor when i use it,does it find me anything ?? yes' of course it does,with our rich historical heritage in the UK it has found me some very nice finds as like all my other detectors as well.We are very luck in having as much history as we do here,if i am honest we tend too take it for granted.... Yes, you do have some long-time history of lost or buried finds to search for compared to here in the USA or many other countries. I wish I could spend a detecting season over there just hunting away. And I agree, the Vaquero or its UK cousin, can serve us all very well in the right location at the right time with the right settings and coil. Monte
  8. Vaq Black

    SteveJJ on 11/11: I'm curious if the Black and Standard are the same circuitry and only differ in the color and coil they come with. ... Black or Gray rod version, both use the same circuitry and the only difference in performance from one to another would be attributed to the coil mounted and settings used. SteveJJ on 11/11: I looked to see if the black coil was sold separately on Tesoro.com but they don't list any separate coils, so I couldn't get an answer to that. ... It's listed on the Tesoro website as: ... 11X8" Widescan (includes scuff) S-11X8W-SC-D 3' $159 $12 And the 'SC' in the description describes it as the standard Short Cable offering. It can also be purchased with the Long cable, the 'LC' coil, if you have a good reason for the extra cable length. Finding one ios more up to the dealer who does or doesn't stock Tesoro's accessories. SteveJJ on 11/11: I was thinking of selling my (gray) Vaquero once I got the F75, but it may just live in my trunk as a quick grab machine. It certainly is nice and light! ... ALWAYS have a good Tesoro in your personal detector arsenal, that's been my opinion for 34 years now since I took I the Tesoro line for personal use. I have several all-time favorite Tesoro models, and I'll hope to get my Bandido II µMAX back, but for now I have the non-TID detector needs covered with my Mojave, Silver Sabre µMAX and Vaquero. If I am making a short trip somewhere, out shopping, running to visit someone, going bird or game hunting, etc., etc., I like to have at least one favorite Tesoro with me. The Vaquero can serve you well when the time is right. Monte
  9. Vaq Black

    GB_Amateur on 11-11: Just a few more questions, I promise! ... Okay, unless you have more as they can always be welcome. Be careful when you say "I promise." What if I was to say something like, I'll keep all my Forums posts and replies short. I promise! There's a good chance no one would believe me. GB_Amateur on 11-11: I just (quickly) read the Vaquero manual on the Tesoro website. A couple things I noticed which I'd like clarified/confirmed: 1) Is the all-metal mode really non-motion? If so, is there a difference between actually switching to all-metal (temporarily) when hunting in discriminate mode and just using the pinpoint button? And does the pinpoint button even do anything (extra) when you're in all-metal already? ...No. The Vaquero's All Metal mode does require motion because it employs a fast Auto-Tune circuitry. Most Tesoro's, such as the Silver Sabre microMAX, have Auto-Tune in their selected All Metal more or in a Threshold-based All Metal Pinpoint function, but it is a little slower threshold-retune speed than the Vaquero which has a faster Auto-Tune in either the selected All Metal or the momentary Pinpoint function. No, not really. If you are in All Metal mode and you select the momentary Pinpoint button, you may experience a very tiny bit of thumb joint and muscle exercise, but accomplish nothing else by doing so. When the vaquero was first introduced I bought three of them, for me and two friends, and I checked them all in-the-field on some located targets just to see if there was any difference. There wasn't. Nothing I or my fields could perceive. GB_Amateur on 11-11: 2) The manual says 10-20 hours battery life (for the single 9V). Is that your experience? If so this sounds like a great application for rechargeable 9 volt batteries. The non-rechargeables ain't cheap. ... I never use rechargeable batteries for a few reasons: ► I prefer a decent alkaline battery, and that doesn't mean it has to be Duracell or Energizer. I never use Ray-O-Vac, but that's due to poor experiences with them and consumer magazine reported testing from the latter '80s and early '90s. I will use the two brands I mentioned, and I also have had good battery duration from 9V batteries I have bought from Lowe's, Tractor Supply, and my local Western Family Thriftway store brand. ► Many times, I have found rechargeable batteries that are just a bit over-sized than most alkaline batteries. Some are too long, maybe too wide, and too thick, and if too thick they can prevent a battery door from fitting. When too lengthy they over-compress the + & - contacts in the detector, and that can lead to a standard-size alkaline battery cutting on-and-off from improper contact. ► I also don't care for most rechargeable batteries that have a shorter run-0time than alkaline batteries, and also seem to quit or die out almost suddenly and without warning compared to a good alkaline battery. ► Good alkaline batteries always give me 20 hours of run-time or more. Often much more! I use headphones always and that benefits battery operating time a little, too. Monte
  10. Vaq Black

    Tiftaaft on 11-07: Monte, I am curious to hear how you decide which of your lineup to choose. For example, what prompts you to grab the Bandido over the rest, or when do you say.. "I'm going to hit this site with the Vaquero" etc. ... When it comes to selecting a non-display Tesoro Bandido II microMAX and Vaquero, here are my 'think modes' for picking one over the other. First, I currently lack a Bandido II µMAX because mine was among the stolen detectors last month. I hope it is recovered and returned, or I find another choice specimen because it is one of my favorite Tesoro's. ►Most of the time I am searching very trashy sites and close to metal structures, metal fences or a lot of building rubble so I use a 6" Concentric coil. Either the Bandido II µMAX or Vaquero will work okay, but I usually use them in the silent-search Discriminate mode and I also like to reject iron nails. The Bandido II µMAX does that at the minimum Disc. setting, where I always leave it because I very seldom use more Discrimination than nail rejection. Of the two, you can increase the Disc. setting of the Vaquero to try and duplicate the Bandido II µMAX performance ... but ... the Vaquero does tend to be just a little bit noisy or chattery in many sites. More than the other unit. Still, the Vaquero can work okay for this and today, without the Bandido II µMAX, I grab the Vaquero most of the time. ► Sometimes I like to search a wide open area with limited targets, good or bad, using the Threshold-based All Metal mode, and make a quick-change to the Discriminate mode to check or analyze a located target, then quickly return to the All Metal mode. For this, I would grab the Bandido II µMAX because it has the toggle switch for quick mode-change. The Vaquero would require you to twist the Disc. knob out of the clicked All Metal setting, adjust to the rejection level you want, then rotate the knob fully counter-clockwise to the clicked All Metal mode. ► There are times I want to accept more targets while in the Discriminate mode, even down as low as accepting most nails and some other ferrous trash. The Vaquero provides that option since it has the ± ED-165 Discriminate circuitry so it is the unit I grab first of the two models. ► At times, in wide-open areas with sparse, well scattered targets, ferrous and non-ferrous, I might also be able to benefit from some added depth-of-detection. For that I grab my 'black' Vaquero and mount the 8X11 DD RSD coil that's already on a spare lower rod for quick changes afield. The Vaquero gives me the better depth and the larger-size coil I need for those site challenges between those two models. Tiftaaft on 11-07: I try to approach my machine choice by the size of the field, the ground condition, and the targets I hope to find... but would be very interested in your decision tree. ... As you can read above, that is basically what I try to do. Consider the size of the site to hunt; factor in the amount of and density of targets at a site; and as noted determine if I want to get a hit on nails and more iron debris at a site or not. Then, coil size and type become a consideration, too. Monte
  11. Vaq Black

    From Tiftaafit: Speaking for my reasons for choosing the Vaquero over the Tejon... I liked the pinpoint button option, but honestly, knowing now what I didn't know then... I rarely use it other than setting the ground balance... the Vaquero pinpoints easily without it... even with the 11x8 coil, and especially in AM. ... Tim, the Pinpoint button on the Vaquero is a very functional feature and one that I have enjoyed on a Silver Sabre µMAX since they were introduced twenty years ago (October of '97). They had the button on the earlier Sidewinder models since early '94, but those models had some glitches in circuitry design so I didn't keep them around. I was pleased to see the Pinpoint Push-Button included on the Vaquero & Cibola models and it was one reason I liked the Vaquero. And yes, the Tesoro's can pinpoint quite well even in the silent-search Discriminate mode, especially with a Concentric coil over a DD design. Also, I was sold on the weight difference between the 9V and AA's.. though it probably wouldn't make that big a difference when swinging. When I got the Vaq, I was swinging an Etrac with a 15" WOT on the end... so a couple AA's over a 9V wouldn't make that much difference. ... The Vaquero's 6" coil is a bit heavier than the 6" coils I use on the general-use series, but any coil on a Tesoro has to be less fatiguing than a Minelab FBS device sporting a 15" WOT coil. I guess the biggest deciding factor along with those rather minor differences was that I am mostly a turf hunter for coins, and hopes to get better and jewelry hunting. So I was looking for a nice marriage of targeting higher conductive items, while being decent at hitting on shallowish gold.... The 14.5 kHz Vaquero is a very good unit so far as frequency is concerned. I tend to prefer most detectors to operate somewhere in the 10 kHz to 15 kHz operating frequency, although there are times I will make use of a lower frequency or some models at a higher frequency. All the Tesoro's in my Regular-Use Detector Team are in that 10 to 15 kHz range and all perform quite well for my Coin and Jewelry Hunting needs (and also tackle Relic Hunting sites just as well). What I didn't know when I bought it, but found out when I started using it... I switch back and forth between AM and Disc to try and get a target id more than I thought I would, so the Tejon switch would be handy... but as I understand the supertune option better, the Vaquero might give me a combination of both AM and Disc, (though understandably less depth than AM and less accurate ID as in pure disc mode... but it is a trade off).... I do switch between All Metal and Disc, to check a target, but that is really easily accomplished by simply making use of the All Metal Pinpoint feature rather than making a mode-change switch from All metal mode to Discriminate mode. In time, however, especially when comfortable with any detector and especially the Tesoro's, I just take the 'Beep-DIG!' approach to success. With any detector I keep my Disc. level low where I am just accepting iron nails (when using a multi-Tone ID detector like my Nokta CoRe, Relic or Impact or White's MX5, to a setting where I am just barely rejecting iron nails (which would be at the minimum Disc. setting with ED-120 Disc. Tesoro's or just increasing the Vaquero to barely reject common iron nails) and I might only use a higher Discriminate level once or twice in an entire year for a specific application. I never "thumb the Disc. control" or do other things to try and capture any sort of Target ID with a Tesoro. I adjust for a proper slight audio hum Threshold setting, Ground Balance spot-on to just slightly negative, run the Sensitivity as high as tolerable w/o noise and chatter, use my preferred lower Disc. setting, then start hunting. When I get any good or reasonably iffy target response (Beep), I Pinpoint the target and recover it (DIG!). No messing around with sizing-and-shaping most targets, or tinkering with controls to try and identify or classify the object. The ONLY way to know for sure if it is a good or bad target is to take a look at it. (Read my signature below.) Having said all that, and having the Vaquero in my possession... it does everything I hoped it would do, and more (much better depth than I expected while in AM). However, I admit, I might have the same exact comment if I had the Tejon in my possession rather than the Vaquero. As CSN&Y said... Love The One You're With. :) And I do.... Just keep on putting in time with the Vaquero to learn and master it. It can make a great complement to what your Minelab detectors can do for you since their all have their own strengths and weaknesses. Monte
  12. Vaq Black

    From GB Amateur:This thread has been based upon the Vaquero with mention of other models. From what I can find online, the Tejon seems to have a lot going for it as well, --... All of the 'better' Tesoro models have "a lot going for them" and it is just a matter of each individual deciding what it is about a particular Tesoro detector, current production or one from the past, that qualifies it as being 'good' or 'better' Tesoro that does what they want or need. There's no such thing as a 'perfect' detector which is why I have a few models in my personal detector battery that serve my needs well and are a complement to other models in the team. Having owned, used, sold, and evaluated almost every land-based Tesoro model since July of '83, working them in a wide range of challenging environments for Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting, Beach Hunting and even doing a bit of Electronic Prospecting, I have narrowed down my all-time favorite models. Today, that list of my top favorite Tesoro's include the Bandido II µMAX, Mojave, Silver Sabre µMAX and Vaquero (in alphabetical order, not by favorite pick). If I had a larger den to display ALL the Tesoro models I have enjoyed, it would include the Inca, Bandido, Bandido II, Silver Sabre II, Pantera, and a really nifty nugget hunter the Diablo µMAX. But I have settled on keeping 3-5 of my favorites on-hand for frequent use that are also lighter-weight compared with most of the earlier designs. Note, if you will, that the Tejón is not in my list of favorite Tesoro models. (For those not familiar with this unit:) Apparently on the plus side it has dual discrimination, which allows you to set one in all-metal and the other in some kind of discrimination (for example, cut out iron) and then switch back and forth using the 3 position toggle switch beneath the control box (3rd position being pinpoint mode). If I understand correctly, you get higher sensitivity in all metal so you could search in that mode and easily flip over to discriminate to check the target's conductivity (above/below your set threshold).... I don't consider the *Dual Discrimination* feature to be a plus. I will replace the Bandido II µMAX (microMAX) that was among the stolen detectors from me last month because there are times that I like to hunt in the Threshold-based All Metal mode then quickly shift to the motion-based Discriminate mode to check a target. A Bandido II µMAX has that toggle-select function. Most of the time, however, I search in the Disc. mode and only use the All Metal Pinpoint function to isolate a target, or maybe to size and shape a target. That can be accomplished with a momentary function of a pushbutton Pinpoint mode using my Silver Sabre µMAX or Vaquero. With most Tesoro models, the Sensitivity control is only a function of the Discriminate circuitry and the All Metal mode is designed at the highest Sensitivity setting and isn't adjustable. You can see that with the Vaquero as the gain adjustment doesn't effect the All Metal mode depth like it does the Disc. mode. Since the Fisher 1260X, introduced in '82 as the first popular slow-motion Discriminating detector, featured the *Dual Discrimination* function, I have not had anyone show me a really practical way to use that type of set-up that would be useful to the mass market of detecting hobbyists. One of the design testers of the prototype was a big fan of the 1200X series from Fisher and I believe was instrumental in encouraging Jack Gifford to design a model to try and rival that Fisher series. But there was a problem with that introduction. The Tejón was introduced in 2003, I believe, and by then Fisher had pretty much parted ways with that old Dual-Disc. concept because the industry, as a whole, wasn't using it. The 'traditional' approach of using one Disc. mode was totally functional and even Fisher had gone away from what they brought to market. Remember, Fisher's first 1260X came out in 1982 and the Tejón in 2003. Unfortunately, as much as I really enjoy my favorite Tesoro models, they just haven't seemed to keep up with industry trends, and the Tejón's 'new' features came along 21 years after Fisher's introduction. On the minus side, it's about 3/4 lb heavier (some of this being due to the batteries: 8 AA vs. single 9V). It runs at a higher frequency (17.5 kHz vs. 14.5 kHz) but I wouldn't think that is a big minus. It also doesn't have the +/- 0.2 kHz frequency shift/tweak option of the Vaquero. ... I like using AA batteries and all of my detectors are so powered, except for my Tesoro's and my Nokta/Makro Pinpointers. I had three Tejón units after they were first introduced and I didn't mind the 8-AA battery housing at the rear of the package, especially when using the standard 8X9 Concentric or a larger-size search coil. It provided a little counter-balance for a bigger-size or heavier coil on the far end of the rod. As for operating frequency (initially stated as being 17.5 kHz but the Owner's Manual says it is 17.2 to 17.6 kHz), the Tejón works OK for general hunting needs, and in theory the higher frequency might give it an 'edge' for lower conductivity objects such as gold nuggets, gold jewelry or US 5¢ coins and the like. But in-the-field, I compared all the Tejón's I owned as well as the few people brought to a seminar, and I had better overall performance, including depth-of-detection, from the Vaquero using the same search coils. Is the Tejon's dual mode just not useful in practice or is there something else that users have found that the ads aren't telling us?... Ads are just that ... ads. Advertisements, usually by a manufacturer, to try and promote what they feel might make a product sellable. The most useful feature on the Tejón, in my opinion, is the variable Tone Control, yet they have failed to incorporate that useful feature on any other model I feel that dollar-for-dollar, feature-for-feature, the Vaquero is by far the better investment over the Tejón. Just my opinion, of course, but it is based on personal experience and detecting time afield. Monte
  13. 57buick, just a few questions and comments. We all have different opinions when it comes to site description. You said the following: "... a very old site that used to be a school but now is an old church" - "... an old wooden baseball diamond back stop thats falling down ". My question is, what do you consider very old or old to be? I know many people get into the metal detecting hobby in recent years and consider an 'old site' to be something that dates to the 1970 or even 1980 era. For me, any dated location would have had human activity in the 1940s or '50s if it was a school or church, but more preferably sites that date from the 1800s up through the 'Depression Era' here in the USA. You also said: "So been hard to get my coil to the ground." Just a reminder, you don't want to get a search coil 'to the ground' or 'on the ground', just work it close enough to the ground to achieve the best performance. Most manufacturers will caution detectorists to stay off the ground by working the search coil at a height of ± 2" off the dirt. Get the coil too close, especially in black sand, pea gravel or other highly mineralized conditions, and you can have a negative impact on performance. Therefore, the actual coil-to-soil distance might not be that bad if the grasses are matted down really well. It sounds like pinpointing a target and target recovery would be more difficult in a dense, matted grass and weed environment. I have encountered that in abandoned ghost towns, old church and school sites, and even old homesites that are in-use, but an adjacent field or garden area had a very weedy or grassy growth, yet that was where the original homestead cabin used to be. In those situations I have done the following things, depending upon the site, or gaining permission from the property owner: 1.. Grid or progress through an area by trampling the grass/weeds down. 2.. Grid or progress through an area using a flat piece of wall-board, plywood, Plexiglas or other object that you can stand on and detect through. 3.. Maybe hold off until a better time of the year when some weed and grass growth is minimal or almost gone. In many places that might be very early spring, just coming out of winter, especially if you live in an environment that endures a snowy season. 4.. Use a weed-eater to clear an area to be searched. 5.. If the place of interest is still used and just not cared for, ask to mow it. That's what a friend & I did since he had a riding mower and made quick work of the overgrown weeds and grass. Before I went to any significant effort, however, I would first search parts of the site that would be more likely to hold lost keepers and determine if the site is really worth the effort. Time might be more wisely and productively spent search other places, or doing research that might lead you to another potential site to hunt that is accessible and grass/weed free. Monte
  14. How Many Remember

    Quote from steveg: Monte -- Not to derail the thread, but any luck recovering any of your stolen gear?... No, nothing yet. Nothing. The responding Portland Police Bureau officer whom responded to take the report is off on Tue., Wed. and Thur. so I am going to try and contact him again this Friday. However, Portland, Oregon is a big city and they have a lot of cases to deal with and I don't think they do a lot of follow-up on these types of break-ins as would a smaller-size town. I try to check craigslist every day or two, but there are so many other on-line sites that can be used it is just impossible for me to do it from almost 400 miles away. I did alert the three major detector dealers in that area, but I don't think all valuable goods stay in the same area where stolen. A 3-4 hour drive and the goods could be up around Seattle Washington and sold there. Still, I am holding out hope that something might happen to get detectors and gear back. Thanks for asking. Monte
  15. How Many Remember

    Those were my friends, O think you are referring to, Chris Beniston and Tom Smith, but it wasn't on the Tesoro Forum as much as on a regular Metal Detecting Forum. They both used Minelab Explorer II's as their regular tools and were especially in search of silver coins and other higher conductors. The things the FBS detectors can do better at, which isn't the lower-to-mid-conductive range. At the time they lived in the greater Portland, Oregon area and had been more active in the local Portland detecting club, and made one or two adventurous trips to the NE every year. Then life changes and they are now living in California. I haven't spoken with Tom in several years now, and only occasionally, like once-a-year, get a call from Chris. I ought to get a hold of him and find out if they are still actively detecting or if interest has waned. Monte
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