Chase Goldman

Show the back mark and shank if it has them, that's how you can determine if it is modern or antique.

Below is a pretty detailed rackout of iron bias including how F2 compares to FE when I replied to you after you asked a similar question here a few weeks back. Short answer is the F2 filter is a more powerful filter than FE but it can also has drawbacks including target masking. Whether or not your soil is mineralized really has no bearing on the effectiveness of iron bias mitigating high tone ferrous falsing. If your trashy site is mostly non-ferrous junk then you won't really see any beneficial effect from iron bias regardless of its setting. Anyway, check out my response again below and click on the embedded links in the post for more in-depth info - good luck and HTH: Post back if you have further questions.

You mean you didn't catch those awesome rusty pickup truck promo videos Brent Weaver passed some targets over the coil to demonstrate the 5-tone audio, so it appears to at least detect metal.

Bingo - that's why more is not necessarily better. We'll see how stable the APEX TID turns out to be, one of my "We'll See" questions on my APEX quick take rackout.

No kidding. Always wonder, especially when chasing old coins, why people obsess over the vdi for copper penny, dime vs. a quarter or a clad dime vs. a silver dime. As if it is going to make a difference on a dig decision.

I posted this in one of the APEX anticipatory threads on April 26th: They exceeded even these lofty expectations by actually including MultiF in the APEX, perhaps only falling short on the lack of a fully waterproofed machine. Really impressed with the unveiling and how they were able to keep it under wraps until the reveal.

ML (Codan) will cooperate with anyone who will give them a sound business proposition (like licensing technology) they can convince their stockholders is in the best interest of the company. But, yeah, it is unlikely that ML and Garrett are cooperating here for the reasons you cite. In fact, it is almost like Garrett is trolling ML on this design (the frequency choices, the eye rolling whenever they mention "slow bluetooth wireless technology" which is really just disingenuous if you have any knowledge of what ML is actually doing there with APTX LL, and ribbing their competition on cheesy promotional material - while doing the same thing themselves) and know full well that for whatever reason ML probably can't do anything about it. I am sure they have studied Whites DFX deal and the recently settled lawsuits between XP and ML and are savvy enough to know just how to navigate the Intellectual Property minefield because ML has shown its hand before regarding litigation. If that is actually the case, then I have some newfound respect for Garrett.

In the US it is 20 years for a Utility (process, system, machine) patent and 14 years for a Design (look, feel) patent.

And I am also not sure why that would be true.

FBS is a Minelab generational multifrequency implementation and marketing buzzword. Doubt Garrett is directly using a ML implementation of MF. I probably is just as Carl has surmised analog demodulation of the target signal vs. digital direct sampling.

That's really only true of older or poorly designed modern coils. Never had had to detune a 9" to 11" stock coil on any of my recent detectors. It's a classic balance of depth vs. swing coverage vs. weight vs. target size. Right tool for the job. I personally think a 5" width coil is a little too small for a stock coil despite the large swing coverage. Depth will be limited to a certain extent. Would have like to have seen something with at least an 8" width for all around usage.

Agree, such a tired argument. It will cost maybe $35 to $50 if you want the repair center to do it (vs. just doing it yourself) based on my experience with XP and ML, 4 to 7 years from now. Compare that to the cost of replaceable or even a couple sets of nicads over that time.

Excessive falsing on nails was a knock on the 6" coil by several when it first came out which was around the same time as the first Equinox software update. That observation appeared to be a function of the "hotter" software update 1.75 causing several to revert to the original software when using the 6" coil. That appeared to be better resolved in the Equinox 2.0 update and perhaps that had something to do with the new F2 iron bias settings. Definitely experiment with the iron bias settings at your sites to get your desired response and to balance falsing against masking of keeper targets (in other words don't overcompensate for iron falsing by increasing iron bias too high because that can result in masking of desirable targets - yes, another detecting balancing act).

You never really described your objective (unless you were inferring that you want to dig less trash) so it is hard to advise on "whether you did the right thing". So instead, let's talk about small coils in general - they are typically specialty coils designed for very specific conditions. Like most things having to do with metal detecting - equipment and settings are all about balancing or biasing competing principles to optimize the desired effect for the targets of interest. Small Coil Pros Light weight Normal target detection requires coil swing motion and the smaller coil allows you to have Increased maneuverability around obstacles like shrubs, fence lines, playground equipment, or other situations where your ability to swing would be hindered by a coil with a larger width. Great sensitivity to smaller targets because of the increased density of the magnetic field produced. So they are great for small nuggets or micro jewelry. They will of course detect larger targets (albeit at reduced depth vs. larger coils) but the smaller targets mentioned can be missed by the larger coils. Ability to have less targets under the coil main active area (the center spine region of a DD coil) in thick density target situations which can improve your ability to pick out individual targets. Less "antenna area" so they tend to be less susceptible to EMI noise, in general, meaning you can usually run with higher sensitivity to compensate somewhat for the lack of depth performance. Small coil Cons Small swing coverage which really slows down your ability to cover an area in a given time period. Think of the coil as a broom your are sweeping from side to side. if you want to ensure you sweep the entire floor while still moving forward then you must take overlapping sweeps which means each increment of forward motion is limited by the width of the broom. A six inch coil means I have to tip toe across the site to ensure I have overlapping coverage whereas the 11" coil allows you to take more natural length strides as you sweep your coil back and forth and then move forward. As a result small coils are good for grass curb strips or if you really want to focus on every square inch of a very small area. Depth is limited because the denser magnetic field doesn't penetrate as far into the ground before it's field strength drops off due to the smaller physical dimensions of the coil. Might false more on shallower small iron bits than the larger coils. Bottom line is that unless you have a specific situation where the coil is designed to excel such as a limited swing area, focus on micro targets, or a small area of high density targets (e.g., a curb strip), you are not necessarily going to dig less trash (and may increase hits on micro trash foil bits and other annoying debris) and unless you are patient and have the time to go slow and focus on swing coverage, may miss some targets because you didn't get the coil over the target and you will also lose your ability to get some of the deeper targets. I have the 6" coil but pull it out only occasionally for very specific situations like meticulously going through the pile of dirt dug out of a large relic pit to look for small, missed targets like buttons. HTH.

Makes sense Dan, that looks like an 1820's "Jacksonian" era (i.e., Andrew Jackson) Federal US infantry button. Sweet find.

1 hour initial charge is not necessarily so unusual. Should take less than 4 hours from a fully discharged state at the max charging rate of ~2A according to ML documentation below. And considerably less when shipped from the factory as they are typically shipped 3/4 full (the ideal long term Lithium cell long term storage charge level). I suspect a bad power switch.

That is still a TBD as far as I'm concerned (see my Apex Pro/Cons/We'll See rackhout here). Garrett has been putting that same statement in all their AT Series spec rackouts: "Fast recovery speed...check" and we know what the real truth is. You just posted about it... Pending field reviews for the Apex, likely getting rid of my Vanquish. Apex addressed all my significant Vanquish shortcomings - no ground balance/flawed no disc mode (not a fan of having to do the custom disc workaround, especially with only one custom mode slot) and lack of a single frequency option. I still need to have a chance to test Vanquish at the beach. Vanquish does bang on high and mid conductors hard but has a flawed tone break that causes pull tabs to come in at the second highest tone break - annoying. And I know Garrett and third parties will likely provide some excellent accessory coil options well beyond the 3 available for Vanquish, as good as they may be.

Very similar to the Equinox 600 which is also lacking these features but which has proven itself to be adept at finding bits.

Multi IQ and the individual selectable frequency options on Equinox (and probably Apex for that matter - but need to analyze the Apex to be sure) have nothing to do with each other despite Minelab's confusing/dumbed down marketing mumbo jumbo on Multi IQ conflating the two. That has been proven through spectrum analysis. It is interesting though that they are indeed using most of the same individual frequency selections for Apex as for Equinox 600/800.

They've had over two years to respond to Equinox and nothing so not sure this is going to spur them on either...not holding my breath. Orx was nice but not innovative - just a watered down Deus to make it more affordable. Otherwise, not sure what XP is doing, if anything other than new accessories and coils for the Deus platform. Still just a single freaker when it comes down to it, a damn good one, but we are now 8 to 10 years on with the Deus platform and component iterations. XP is desperately in need of a head turner release. Well past time for them to step up.

That's true of some Equinoxes and Simplexes too

Regarding Apex watertight integrity. I suspect it is probably a lot more watertight than Vanquish from the looks of things (including a likely sealed battery compartment) but they probably could not swing a certified 30 min./3 Meter rating for some reason or just didn't want to invest in the cost of testing and certification at this time and will save that for the AT Pinnacle iteration using probably the same housing so that they can justify a higher price point (with actual minimal design cost investment) Apex can probably can survive repeated inadvertent dunkings in a lake, river, or even surf but not continuous submersion which frankly suffices for most everyone but the most hard core water hunter or diver. If the charge port is the weak link, I can see investing in a rubber port stopper to provide some additional insurance in the event of a water drop. Even Vanquish is not technically rainproof without putting on it's included rain slicker.

Thought you would get a kick out of that one, Chuck.

I guess they can't call it the Apex now.

Since it is technically an Ace, it would be great if they offered a concentric/coaxial accessory coil option in their future available coil offerings.