Chase Goldman

Ok now we're getting somewhere. Gotta see that second photo of the internal and the pendant (or whatever it is) when you have it. Any marks whatsover on the case (besides the crown) or the pendant? How did it ring up (TID) on the Equinox and what coil/frequency were you using?

How about a focused closeup and put a coin next to it for scale.

Thanks for your analysis, Chuck. Glad I inspired you to do the deep dive, I have to think about coil dimensions some more regarding elliptical coils. For a normal coin sized target my main takeaway is that we are not talking a large delta in depth along the entire range of coil sizes. I find Steve's small vs. large target depth crossover point to be a very interesting table.

Well I never said ML did an adequate engineering job. Whether or not the existing bracing was engineered to provide enough strength doesn't invalidate my point, it just further reinforces (no pun intended) the fact that removing the bracing in the first place is probably not in the direction of goodness for water work.

Agree - I'm not wanting for the Apex or Apex Pro right now (or any machine, frankly) but would like to get my hands on the Apex at some point just to see how Garrett did with Multi F. Then it will come down to what Garret and Minelab do for an encore after Apex and Nox/Vanquish a couple years down the road.

Finally - you've been complaining so long about the Nox while at the same time repeatedly sharing your finds pouch tallies which which seemed impressive enough - I always wondered what all the complaining was about. I am surprised it took this long before you threw in the towel but I see that were wisely timing it to squeeze it for as long as possible while dumping it while it still has warranty in the tank. Not sure I would get on the time machine and go back to the ET but that's your decision and I guess if the price is right... Based on your complaints about EQ not sure Apex is necessarily going to float your boat. It will be a good machine but has A LOT of limitations vs. Equinox. Those limitations may or may not matter to you as long as Multi-Salt and the Garrett tones work for you (you are going to have to deal with a 1/8" headphone socket though ), but for versatility, the Nox will still come out on top for general usage. Jeff addressed some of the inaccuracies in your post regarding the Nox target ID setup so I won't bother there other than to say having 100 segments is not necessarily better. I have yet to see a 100 segment target ID implementation that truly takes advantage of that high RESOLUTION while simultaneously providing the stability and repeatability necessary to take advantage of that resolution. Jeff and Cal also addressed the utility of multitones. 5 tones is great in some situations but I find that 50/full tone implementations are useful in providing nuanced audio target information that is simply not available with 2, 3, or 5 tones because clues such as tone ID stability and tone harmonics/distortion are usually not as prevealent in setups that use 5 or less tones. Knowing how to use 50 tones to your advantage is a key to not having to worry about whether those "low tone coins are in most low tone rubbish", as you put it. Bottom line, I like to have choices when it comes to tone selections. I don't necessarily need to have to be able to fiddle with individual tone breaks, pitches, and volumes (and I would note that is not necessary in full/50 tone setups). But I do like to have a choice, independent of mode, of whether I want to use 2-tone, 3-tone, 5-tone, 50 tone or pitch audio and right now only Deus allows me to do that with Equinox a close second (it doesn't have pitch tone audio except that which is rigidly implemented in Gold mode). Vanquish and Apex are locked in this regard, and Simplex is pretty limited. It probably won't stop me from eventually trying out the Apex to assess it's Multi F capabilities especially at it's reasonable price point.

Be prepared to wait awhile - at least that's what Steve Moore said when asked about future iterations of Apex's design. We'll just have to see what happens.

Coincidentally, going to do some shark tooth hunting next week along the Potomac river (and perhaps a little detecting) as the family embarks on a sanity restoring getaway from lockdown central. Fossilized shark teeth are primarily sedimentary-based non-conducting minerals and as such are not really detectable by magnetic induction principles used by metal detectors. I plan to use a floating sifter.

When it's all said and done it just boils down to this: ORX + Wireless WS Phones + HF Coil ~ $750 vs. DEUS + Wireless WS4 Phones + HF Coil ~ $1298. I really didn't see anything in Gary's video regarding the Deus features that really made up that $550 price difference even without touting the nuanced advantages of the ORX that we both mentioned. These machines are essentially built around the coils and since the coils are common and really determine the machine performance - then you are talking bells and whistles. To be frank, when faced with that price delta, I think the real question isn't "Why would you buy the ORX?" but "Why wouldn't you buy the ORX?" if it came down to a decision between Deus and ORX. If anything, I would think that XP should have had Gary do a harder sell on the Deus. I suspect that the ORX is really stealing a lot of the Deus thunder. But in the bigger scheme of things, ML and Garrett are really grabbing the spotlight. If Nokta figures out how to release a multifrequency machine this year, I think XP will really be falling way behind the curve.

Chuck - Sourdough Scott already posted a link a few hours back to Forrest Fenn's site where the announcement was made (that's why this thread popped to the top of the feed): And here is a link to the story in the Sante Fe New Mexican: https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/forrest-fenn-confirms-his-treasure-has-been-found/article_37006cfe-a8d7-11ea-8653-873ca96e31ef.html Chuck, If you want to post a link to the story you saw, just copy the link address on the top of your browser and then paste it into your post... HTH

I did not have as much of a visceral reaction, Jeff, as you did to the videos. I think Gary did a great job on the comparisons and I think it lays it all out there in a balanced fashion and doesn't change a thing as far as perception is concerned. The ORX is still a great value vs. the XP Deus if you want the simplicity and can live without all the Deus bells and whistles - you get a pretty good bargain in the process with a few "superior" features vs. Deus including normalized target ID for the HF coils which is not an option on the Deus, perhaps a smidgeon better performance in gold mode, a great ground grab feature that I find is superior to Deus manual GB implementation, and a better display layout with the pop up TID and iron probability bargraph. I must say that I DO miss full and pitch tone options in the coin modes and ground tracking on ORX (but ground grab makes up for the lack of tracking IMO). He really did not portray the Deus as superior from a performance standpoint so I think the buyer still has a valid choice between price and features and the video did nothing to change that equation.

That is a tragedy but still does not make it a hoax, scam, or crime. Forrest didn't kill those people. They chased after something of their own free will. People do not need Forrest Fenn's treasure to be motivated to make dangerous bad decisions or poor judgments. Look at all the selfie idiots losing their lives falling off cliffs, buildings, and waterfalls. I am not saying that those who died directly or indirectly in pursuit of the FF's treasure made poor decisions, but they were putting themselves in risky situations but doing so of their own free will. If you are assuming the treasure didn't exist, then from that vantage point, you are painting Fenn as some depraved practical jokester who somehow got pleasure out of seeing people lose their lives or get injured in the quest of something that did not exist. I am not buying that at all! If you assume the treasure did exist, then why is it Fenn's fault that people lost their lives looking for it vs. mountain biking and falling off a cliff or taking a selfie and careening down a rock face at Yosemite, or simply getting bit by a snake detecting in the desert. People are free to make choices and who knows what motivates them be it greed, sense of adventure, or an adrenaline rush. Outdoors is not a 100% safe proposition. People are going to lose their lives or get injured, especially if they are not doing things in a safe manner with or without Forrest Fenn's treasure. Yes it is tragic, just as any accidental loss of life. But it is not a "scam" nor a "crime", it is just life and death and the human condition.

Yeah, right. Fenn was already independently wealthy so what would have been his motivation? Tell that to the people who were scammed by an actual criminal, Bernie Madoff. So some people got some fresh air, why is that a scam?

Yes, I'm hoping Forrest would reveal where he hid it now that it has been found. No need to get the finder involved. I guess the only hindrance to Forrest doing so would be that if the finder publicly revealed all or part of his solution (I am taking a stand against using the populist zombie verb-as-noun "solve" though I have been know to falter on this forum with the word "ask") so someone could potentially link back to him. I really don't care about whether or not that quells the conspiracy theorists. They are not my concern and are usually divorced from reality and can continue to wail and waste their time. What I want to know is how well the actual location matches up to the clues, that's all. I agree with you Chuck, the best treasures are those you find that were never meant to be found.

Wow. FInally. Going to put a cottage industry of Fenn's treasure bloggers and associated sites out of business now. Lol. Don't really care who found it, presuming they want to remain anonymous, but it would be interesting to finally find out where it was hidden

Excal it is, then. As an alternative you can consider one of the handheld pinpointer/coil units from Nokta or Quest. If you are just looking for metal dropped overboard and in springs, you really don't need all the fancy discrimination or displays at depth. You just want to know if you have a small chunk of metal, recover it from the sand/mud and move on. Nokta and Quest are recognizing that this niche market exists - and have come out with 8" coil options or "pro coil" options for these more powerful and sophisticated convertible pinpointer detectors. Google "Nokta PulseDive" and "Quest ScubaTector" for more info. Here is a forum link on the PulseDive.

Rick, regarding the bracing, the other downside I thought of is that once you do that, you have actually modded the coil mechanically and as a result have likely voided the warranty on the coil should it subsequently fail even if that failure had nothing to do with removing the bracing. Just another thing to consider.

Chances are you will be ok and you can replace the braces if need be. Only one way to find out and if it works it will definitely reduce your water drag.. In any event, hope you have a great water hunt. It is getting to be that time of year. Hopefully, I too can get out there soon. Good luck!

All I am saying is that for whatever reason, ML felt the need to put the extra bracing in there, knowing it was going to be used in the water. They are motivated first and foremost to make the coil as light as possible and to also lower swing resistance in the water, so I don't think they put the bracing there for grins. I suppose it could have been designed to not need them and there is probably design margin to whatever dynamic loading they were assuming. But comparing it against a different manufacturer's coil and an elliptical coil at that which has a different dynamic loading profile than a round coil is probably an apples to oranges proposition. Hell, what do I know. I'm not a coil designer, just trying to use logic here.

Hmm. The bracing was put there for a reason. The dynamic pressure of the water could now put a lot of flex on the coil which could disrupt the induction balance effect and cause some false signals. Maybe not so much of an issue light wading but not something I would do in surf. Not personally a fan of having a fanny pack full of water and the screen at that angle just seems awkward so not my cup o' tea. I'm usually carrying a scoop in my left hand and hanging on to the detector with the other so I like having the control panel within reach of my thumb with my right hand gripped on the handle for pinpoint and target interrogation. With your setup I would have to let go of either my scoop or the detector to manipulate the controls. But, hey, if it works for you, that is great. Hope you get some rings and bling with that set up. Good luck, Rick!

Yes, it was me Canoe, who first recommended it. You should enjoy it, but it WILL be a different beast than your MXT, so will take some getting used to the tones, target IDs, and responsiveness. Best advice I can give that other than adjusting the volume control to your liking, doing a noise cancel, and an auto ground balance (unless you on a white sand beach or extremely mild ground, then you can just take your chances with the zero default setting - but auto GB takes all of about 5 seconds, so I just recommend doing it as a part of your normal startup routine), and adjusting sensitivity to the point of just silencing any chatter - don't futz with any other settings and run with the mode defaults until you get a feel for the machine. In fact, I recommend just sticking with a single mode - Park 1 or Beach 1, applicable, as good general purpose land or beach mode. ML did a great job with the default settings, so for the most part you can select your mode, just do the startup routine above, and swing away. Note that most user settings including noise cancel and ground balance are mode specific and not "universal" other than sensitivity- this is explained well in the downloadable user guide. So don't tweak or mode hop until you are comfortable with the machine. Also dig all targets, including probable junk, in order to learn its "language". It is really not a complicated machine, just a versatile machine - just like any other VLF in terms of its basic operation, discrimination, tones, and IDs, including the MXT, it just happens to have 8 modes that give it some unique "personalities" akin to having multiple detectors in one package, and a couple of less familiar feature settings like recovery speed and iron bias, and a lot of tone customization capability. Refer back to Steve's Equinox Essential Information compilation thread if you have more specific questions or ask away here if you can't find the exact questions/answers there. Good luck and Happy Hunting.

Maybe this will help... Stay strong, Tony. You can beat this thing...

Anyone reading or posting in this thread, repeat after me, "My name is ______________, and I'm a coil-o-holic."

Well it's my truth, so I know that. But of course my hunting buddy would have a different opinion. And just like about anything metal detecting, ymmv.