Chase Goldman

There is a good explanation here by Steve regarding Equinox ground balancing and why a gold optimized mode like that which exists on the Equinox is all wrong for salt based on where salt shows up on the target phase diagram vs. gold and how Multi IQ can be set up to remedy the situation (i.e., the Beach mode Multi IQ setups). It is also linked in the EQUINOX Essentials thread at the top of the forum.

You mean besides in Gold Mode? Gold mode's VCO audio and true threshold vs. the other modes is self adjusting from what I can tell and can be run with no disc applied. It would be a great option if it could be run in the other modes, as I said above.

Dan, those are indeed ringtail Sharps carbine minie balls, but most likely they were from the carbines carried by the US Dragoon troops whose buttons you keep finding there as USA troops also used the ringtail design. Dragoons were mounted like Cavalry (but typically fought dismounted) and as such used carbine rifles like Sharps, Spencers, and Burnsides. CSA Cavalry troops also used Sharps carbines and manufactured some "knockoff" Sharps carbine designs. Ringtail cartridges are most often associated with CSA troops because their arsenals lacked the capability to produce the newer Sharps molds and linen cartridges (which were pasted onto the ball instead of needing the extra "tie ring" required by the old style paper tie cartridges) carried by USA troops during most of of the war, so when ringtails are recovered in areas known for cavalry engagements during the war, it is presumed they are most likely CSA projectiles (though you cannot tell unless a distinguishing arsenal mark is visible). The context and history of record of your outpost site would probably fill in the gaps of the story your finds are helping to write. Enjoy your fun site as long as it lets you, you are pulling some great relics.

Yes, Gold will not run stable on wet salt sand at a reasonable sensitivity setting. Gold mode's hot tuning, ideal for gold, is exactly the opposite of what you need to cancel salt even though the mineralization is typically low. Really need the beach modes which are tuned to reject salt using their own Multi IQ signal processing algorithms yet they can also deal with black sand (without multifrequency it is very hard to balance for salt, let alone salt and ground mineralization, simultaneously). Salt has a different ground phase response than that of mineralized soil which is what the ground balance algorithm is looking for and multifrequency allows Equinox (or any detector) to identify and compensate for this different ground phase delay response vs. dry sand and soil. It is for that reason, ML has even gone the extent of disabling single frequency mode with the beach search profiles (didn't want the complaints from users that single frequency beach modes don't work on wet sand, I guess, lol). Most of the Equinox modes will work find on dry salt sand, though. I too wish ML had provided the VCO audio as a tone option for the other (non-gold) modes.

So if Busho's out of whack number doesn't adjust after sweeping (on mineralized ground) in GB mode or otherwise, he might just have a tracking issue. Will try to get out there and run some tests tomorrow and on an archeological survey outing I have planned in a few days.

I was just attempting to provide some helpful info in my first post and was taken aback at your response which came across like I was somehow wasting your time to a degree. Sorry you took offense at me pointing that out. Not something I am used to receiving when I reach out to help someone out on this board. At least I got three thumbs up from some of the other readers. Lol. Anyway, glad my follow up post helped to answer your questions more thoroughly. My apologies and moving on... I have spent more than a year on this board trying to help folks demystify this Equinox beast. It is a really different animal than any previous ML machine and certainly from most other non-ML machines. The way GB and GB tracking works on this machine is also way different and the way ML describes the various GB modes in the manual and elsewhere leaves a lot of ambiguity and confusion as evidenced by the number of times GB tracking and AUTO GB questions come up. As I reread through some of your posts I think I might see were some of the confusion and frustration you are having is coming from, and it may not necessarily be from a defective tracking algorithm on your machine. I said it before, but I am not sure I was totally clear - Tracking GB DOES NOT sense GROUND PHASE changes. It senses MINERALIZATION changes. While it is true that MINERALIZATION is generally the greatest contributor to GROUND PHASE and is also perhaps the most important constituent, other soil properties can cause the ground phase reading to change. Even if ground phase does change, if it is not a result of mineralization, then 1) tracking will not necessarily pick it up and 2) it does really not matter UNLESS you are getting a lot of ground noise while in SEARCH mode (manifested by a lot of ferrous grunts and -9 to -7 TID readings while swinging with NO DISC AKA HORSESHOE "mode"). Also, I believe based on my experience that tracking will not do anything if you are stationary and pumping in ground balance mode, even if you have manually introduced an artificially high phase imbalance because tracking does not do anything unless you are SWEEPING the coil and it senses a MINERALIZATION change. That certainly won't happen if you are standing in the same place just pumping the coil. Since Equinox does not have a mineralization meter, you cannot infer the degree of mineralization change solely from a change in ground phase reading, you need to listen for ground noise as I described above, during normal search mode swinging and to be totally sure, need to use a separate mineralization meter, if you have access to a detector that has one (XP Deus, Fisher F75, and others). So all this talk of ground noise you are hearing while in GROUND BALANCE mode (indicating a ground phase mismatch with the balance point) is not necessarily all that relevant unless you are also getting a lot of ground noise (as I described above) during normal swinging in your search mode which is indicative of magnetite mineralization that tracking is somehow not responding to. Remember also, that tracking responds relatively slowly vs. the auto gb response but should make the ground noise go away after several swings. And like I said before, Multi IQ in the Equinox does a pretty good job of compensating for a less than ideal ground balance (up to a point), regardless. However, if SEARCH MODE GROUND NOISE is not going away while in tracking mode or is not responsive to a mineralization change, then yeah, you might have an issue with tracking should get it checked out by reaching out to ML support. Good luck and I hope you get tracking GB resolved to your satisfaction.

Yes, mine does well in both the gold and field modes (the primary modes I use relic huning) in heavily mineralized soil, perhaps some of the worst in the US and it has served me well. If you manually take GB way out of balance and switch into tracking mode, tracking is not going to just snap GB into place, especially if you are just standing still. First of all Tracking likes Ground Balance to be set near the actual ground phase reading to start and because it responds relatively slowly and it can only trigger on sensed changes in mineralization, it is not going to handle large step changes in mineralization or ground phase well. Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing mineralization level and changes because the Equinox lacks a mineralization meter and you can't infer mineralization level based on the ground phase reading. Tracking perhaps can't handle the large swings in ground phase you are describing and is suited to more gradual changes. If you think tracking is under performing based on the level of ground noise you are experiencing (in other words, you are sure it is doing no better than a single point ground balance and ground phase variations are within reason), a hardware problem is not out of the question and perhaps a call to minelab support is in order. Anyway, it appears based on your tone, I have somehow struck a nerve with my previous response so I am going to disengage at this point. Hope you get a satisfactory resolution.

Tracking ground balance by it's nature responds relatively slowly to changes in ground phase (otherwise it would trigger on ferrous targets and/or cause enough variations in the balance setting that it would also contribute to ground noise). Typically tracking ground balance works best when there are large variations in mineralization which is also the greatest (but not only) contributor to ground phase reading. Most GB tracking schemes do not work well when the variations in mineralization are small and the change in ground phase reading is due to other constituents in the soil. Without a mineralization change there is nothing to trigger the ground phase reading by the tracking "circuit". That is why Tracking should not be used in low mineralized soil with high variations in ground phase or at sites with a high density of discrete ferrous targets. Equinox does a great job of compensating for a less than ideal ground phase as the multifrequency scheme allows some compensation/cancellation of ground effects, but that can only get you so far if your ground phase is changing significantly. The way that manifests itself is by audibly detecting ground noise (with discrimination off). If you are hearing a lot of ground noise with a fixed ground phase reference (established by manual or auto pumping GB) or even in tracking. Then you should probably do an auto or manual GB. Otherwise, don't get too caught up in the ground phase numbers. Note also, that the different multi frequency spectra used for each of the different search profile modes will often result in different ground readings for the same patch of ground which is why you should ground balance each mode you use separately. If you are switching modes, and notice a SIGNIFICANT change in your original GB number while in tracking make sure of two things: First, make sure you are indeed in tracking GB and have not just done a single point auto GB and second, make sure that each mode you are using has been GB initially to set a good starting point for the tracking algorithm. What mode(s) were you using, BTW?

Was an honor being asked to contribute a few tidbits on this one, can't wait to see how it turned out. Mine is on the way and I will have a chance to provide first hand feedback to Andy in Gettysburg next month assisting in one of his XP/Minelab bootcamp sessions. Perhaps he will add Equinox to the bootcamp repertoire in the future now that the book is on the street. If anyone wants me to pass on a message or feedback to Andy personally regarding the book, just PM me. Otherwise, post your comments here and I will make sure Andy comes back for a visit and perhaps some interactive discussion.

Can confirm these are listed on the Qualcomm website as APTX LL but the reviews are not very good on various web retailers.

Would be interested in hearing your results. When I do get a chance to detect, I am usually on the clock for those precious few hours I have and want to make the most of my time detecting rather than testing, but might try to force myself to take the time to do some testing myself. However, with respect to the GB thing, I am pretty sure that doing a GB to start is probably better or at least no worse than just leaving it at the default so there is not a lot of impetus for me to go prove that to myself. Wouldn't mind being proven wrong because at least that means I learned something new and that is something this hobby keeps reminding me - you never know as much as you think you do.

Because the active process is using multifrequency to interpolate from an assumed reference starting point. If the actual ground phase is not 0, then its interpolation will not be as accurate compared to giving it the actual ground phase reading. It is not determining the actual reference value just how the ground is responding in comparison to the target using multiple frequencies, otherwise it would be actually tracking the ground phase, which we know it is not otherwise what would be the point of having a separate tracking GB feature? It just happens to be very good at compensating/interpolating (to a point) even if it is given a default vice actual ground phase reading. You ask why does it need you to give it a starting point. The answer is it doesn't absolutely need you to do it if the ground phase it within some unknown range of the zero point default, but I believe it would compensate even better if you did give it the right starting point even if the delta between the default and actual were small because that delta is just another potential source of computational error. Rich - We're going around in circles at this point with diminishing returns so I am going hang it up at this point since we don't seem to be converging to a common understanding and have hijacked the hell out of aygore's thread, lol. It has been an interesting discussion and you have given me some food for thought so I will leave it at that. Thanks. Will try to just lurk and read additional responses and try to refrain from wading in again as I am sure most are sick of my droning on at this point...lol. Cheers.

True, but a multifrequency detector has the added advantage of determining (in real time) the change in target and ground ratios with frequency and, as a result, can better compensate for a lack of a perfect ground balance by identifying the different frequency response of the target vs. the ground ratios (more precisely reactance X (phase component) vs. Resistance R (amplitude component). Despite the ability to do this, even multifrequency detectors perform better when properly balanced to the actual soil ground phase effect. In other words, even though a multiple frequency detector can perform better than a single frequency vlf without a precise ground balance adjustment, it will perform even better if ground balanced. Not disagreeing with what you stated, just explaining why some might argue against the necessity if adjusting GB from the default setting when it comes to a multifrequency detector, like Equinox.

Then I sincerely apologize for the misunderstanding.

That's what I thought ML was saying also (and stated that in a previous post), but not having familiarity with the CTX...

Rich - that is a very interesting interpretation but I have found nothing in ML's user manual or the ML Treasure Talk Equinox articles, including the 4 part Multi IQ series that corrobrates that: Signal analytics to separate targets from the ground signal is ONLY active when GB is set to 0 That GB = 0 means that "standard GB" is OFF. So I would appreciate reading more about this if you have a reference. I interpret from reading the Multi IQ series of articles that the signal analytics ground compensation processing is ALWAYS on in multi and that the detector is merely setting the GB reference starting point more accurately by doing a manual/auto GB from which the ground signal can be be better compensated/interpolated using the Multi IQ signal analytics. I also don't really know what you mean by the term "standard GB" as that is never used by ML in the context of the Equinox. Also, since manual GB is fully adjustsble from -9 to 99, it seems strange to me ML would a assign a different GB behavior to "0" vs. any other setting. In other words, by your interpretation, if a manual/Auto GB did just happen to give you a "0", then the "standard GB" you thought you were getting would be OFF? That seems like it would be really confusing to the user and would warrant a mention in the user guide. In any event, I admit that I cannot prove my interpretation definitively based soley on the vague information ML has put out but it seems reasonable to me that ML would design it the way I describe. Regarding signal analytics being superior or just leaving GP at 0, I find it interesting that ML writes: "When Tracking Ground Balance is active, the detector continuously adjusts the Ground Balance automatically during detecting. This ensures that Ground Balance is always set correctly." - p 41 of the User Guide. So yeah, at some unknown point, 0 is just not good enough but ML never says when, just the vague repeated reference to excess ground noise. ML also refers to ground noise in the context of recovery speed and swing speed, implying a lower usable limit on recovery speed setting because ground noise will tend to dominate at slowe mr sweep speeds. I think we both know that proper coil control is key to success with Equinox. Don't know who said that (you put it quotes so you must be quoting someone). As I stated in my previous post, that default setting is a great starting point for the entire gamut of detectorist skill levels and Multi IQ certainly allows detecting success without having to make adjustments from 0 with little penalty for MOST detecting situations. Keeping it simple for the less experienced detectorist yet providing more precise control for the advanced detectorist appears to be inherent in the Equinox design philosophy. But if you thought I was saying it is a setting suitable only for less experienced detectorists in my previous post you really misinterpreted my meaning and I personally do not appreciate the negative coonotation of the terms used in your post to be directly or indirectly attributed to me to make it sound as if I was dispariging inexperienced or even advanced detectorists who do use the default settings. It is not something I would ever do or tolerate and is 180 degrees opposite of my typical interaction on this board. Any detectorist new to detecting or the Equinox that I have helped with my advice can attest to that. If that was not your intent, then I sincerely apologize. I typically run without disc a high percentage of the time I detect with Equinox and am fully aware of the advantage of doing so. However, I rekon that most do not run wide open, so I was generalizing to the more common configuration which is using the default disc settings. Thanks for the reply, this has been a great discussion and like the "how many frequencies are transmitted" question cannot really be resolved in the absence of more explicit details from ML.

Rich - the following is just a counterpoint addressing the ML p. 40 statements directly and not meant to be an I'm right and you are wrong thing. Nor am I advocating that YOU should change the way YOU do business. I know you quoted Horst but I too was in the camp of why not just do a GB so that is why I am responding. Your position is valid because Multi IQ on Equinox does afford a lot of forgiveness when detecting without an optimal Ground Balance point set, I better understand your GB=0 position and just wanted to state why I do GB on regular basis as part of my startup routine (except for one situation) regardless of the soil condition and why I think I too am not violating anything ML has stated on p. 40. And again even though I have a difference of opinion, I also agree it does not mean you should in any way change the way you do it because it works for you to swing at the GB default. Anyway, with that out of the way... I interpret p. 40 a little differently but again, that does not mean my interpretation is right for everyone, here is my take. Fact - Multi IQ and multi frequency machines in general do have the advantage of being able to separate the ground signal by benefit of getting real-time reactance and resistance readings from the ground at different frequencies. That means that UP TO A POINT, the machine can readily compensate for a non-zero ground phase condition. The question is, at what point do does it start having an issue. Minelab gave us the answer on p. 40 as well as on page p. 11 which refers you to the GB procedure on p. 40 if you are experiencing excessive ground noise after conducting the quick start steps. The problem is you do not know if you are experiencing excessive ground noise unless you have removed all discrimination (horseshoe button) and furthermore, you do not know how much the ground noise is affecting detector performance up until the point you notice it though I am sure that in the grand spectrum of effects, on Equinox not having a precise GB in Multi IQ has at worst, a relatively small effect even at large ground phase discrepancies. My Opinion/Philosophy/Take on GB with Equinox - In my region I am subject to a WIDE range of soil conditions. No site, except the dry sand beaches I go to, is completely free of mineralization and also baseline ground phase readings vary greatly from site to site and mineralization is only ONE factor that determines a non-zero reading. I usually use more than one detector at a site and go with the hot hand. Unlike the Equinox, my other primary detector has a mineralization (Fe3O4) meter and I have seen Equinox ring up with some very high Ground Phase numbers even on low mineralized soil (Side note: unless you have a detector that can explicitly read out mineralization level, you cannot tell the level of mineralization at your site if all you have the Equinox ground phase reading because high GP number does not necessarily correlate to a high mineralization level). Furthermore, I have found that Equinox will ring up with significantly different Ground Phase readings on the same patch of ground depending on what mode I have selected. Finally, if I am not searching in AM mode, I may not have any idea if I am experiencing ground noise because that usually shows up as a constant -9, -8, -7 variable chatter and just because I don't hear it in the NF target region does not mean it is not affecting my NF target detection capability. Even on sand beaches, I have NEVER been to a site that has given my "0" on an AUTO GB. Since I have no way of knowing what the GP reading is going to be and at what point a non-zero reading is going to affect detectability, I just do the auto pump as part of my startup routine and swing away. So let's go to what ML said on p. 40 again. "The default Ground Balance setting of 0 is recommended for Park, Field and Beach Modes because these locations typically have less mineralisation than goldfields. However, if the ground is generating many noise signals (and/or the Sensitivity level is set very low), then using Auto Ground Balance is recommended." My take (just my speculation and opinion again, not proven fact) is that ML was really pointing out why they chose 0 and NON-TRACKING as the DEFAULT GB setting vs. TRACKING as the DEFAULT for the Gold Modes and was trying to keep things simple for detectorists of all skill levels by not REQUIRING a GB for most situations because it should really not affect detecting experience all that much, especially with the Multi IQ advantage. Many low end detectors do not have anything other than a preset ground phase reference point, and that suffices for most situations and people do just fine with them. However, I am surprised that ML is linking Ground Phase solely to mineralization, as mineralization is not the only (though it is probably the most dominant) factor in determining ground phase reading. Furthermore, in the CTX words I am especially surprised that ML said "Ground Balance should not be enabled in most detecting conditions where ground mineralization is mild." "Should not" is pretty strong language and is incongruent with them throwing in the qualifier "most detecting conditions" later in the statement. So what are those outlier conditions when you "should" GB in mild mineralization? Also, not being familiar with CTX, some of the nomenclature is also unfamiliar to me - what does "enable" ground balance mean in the context of CTX - is that some sort of tracking GB mode? If so, I fully understand why you would preferably not want to use a tracking GB feature in mild mineralization and address that below. Bottom line, I don't think ML is saying don't do a GB under mild soil confitions with Equinox, only pointing out the basis for their default settings. As far as I am concerned, if I am getting something other than 0 (and the only way to know that is to go into GB and pump or listen for Ground Noise in AM) then why wait to see if you are getting ground noise just head things off at the pass and start off with a ground balance point that most closely matches the site condition, regardless of whether that is 0 or some other number. There certainly is no down side to always doing an Manual/Auto GB at as part of a startup routine other than the 5 seconds it takes to do it and since that GB reading sticks from the last session, it is prudent for me to do it anyway since if it is not zero, then it can be WAY OFF for the new site. I also noise cancel and GB separately for each mode I use at a site. Since it is now just a routine thing, I even do it at the beach. My bottom line - Even though ML "recommends the default ... setting of 0", I do not think they are saying you "should not" do a GB, either. Unless I am missing something, there is no real downside to doing a GB routinely at the start of a detecting session regardless of the site and on the flip side there is probably very little penalty to NOT doing a GB at most sites and just sticking with the default of 0 (but make sure it really is at 0, especially if you did a manual/auto GB or used tracking at your last site). But regardless how small the penalty is, I see no reason to incur it when it is easily remedied. If I am mistaken regarding the "no downside" statement on routinely doing a GB, I would like to know. The philosophy of using tracking GB is a whole separate subject, especially considering the fact that there may indeed be downsides to using tracking GB, especially at low mineralized sites, because tracking relies on changes in mineralization to trigger a GP reading and rebalance and I don't want to get into that here. Thanks for reading and welcome feedback, especially if I am missing something that would indicate doing a routine GB is somehow detrimental or even non-optimal. Thx.

Clive - can you clarify a couple things - by NF tone at 25, are you talking volume or pitch? And how far above zero are you typically having to set the non-ferrous (NF) tone break (TB) under noisy conditions and what is your "do not go above" max TB setting? Finally, what were you driving atvwith that last comment (i.e., "can't be heard...").

Thanks, Clive. On my to do list this summer is cracking open your second Equinox book and getting a chance to put your advanced theory to practice at tge beach and elsewhere.

Most likely it will behave very similar if all the user parameters are set up identically between Park 1 and Field 1. Regarding GB 0, don't automatically assume GB 0 is the right setting based on mode, it needs to be set according to the local site conditions (i.e., if you are getting a lot of ground feedback in all metal, then GB) similar to noise cancel. Also not sure why people don't take the 5 seconds it takes to get an optimal Auto GB, regardless, but that's just me and my OCD, I guess - lol. An interesting test would be to see if after you have set up Park 1 and Field 1 identically, that if you do a GB on each one to see if the GB readings are similar between the 2 modes (GB is mode dependent because of the different Multi IQ profiles on the Equinox and if you do GB, each mode should be balanced individually).

Have had to use a pick to hack through frozen ground at a site I only had limited access to a few times a year, so you go when you get the chance, no matter the conditions. Did it stop me? No and I was rewarded with some cool relic finds. We were thawing out dirt clods next to a fire pit we set up for warmth breaks. Lol.

I think a production batch of defective pro finds exhibited the behaviors you are describing. Sounds like you have a valid case for warranty replacement so you should take advantage of that option.

Jeff, Oh yeah, got it, I am with you! I love that ORX VDI popup feature and the iron probability display. If ORX had pitch on the coin modes and GB tracking, it would be able to do 90% of what I need it to do vs. Deus. As it is, it makes a serviceable backup to Deus. I hope XP incorporates the ORX display features as an option on a future Deus update, probably unlikely, though. I would also take an ORX update to add pitch audio, which seems lije a trivial upgrade to accomplish. HH.

The ORX limits on tone ID with just 3 tones is in play here. I could live with that tone limitation if XP saw fit to also provide pitch tone as an option. Be careful about Coin fast. Coin fast utilizes an automatic silencer filter which quiets the machine down in thick iron but can also exacerbate non-ferrous masking. Overall, the signal processing of coin fast vs. coin deep results in quieter overall operation even if you take silencer out of the equation. If auto silencer is implemented on ORX similar to Deus than it should be turned off at Reactivities 2.5 and above (which is also where you probably want reactivity to be in super thick iron anyway). I would give high reactivity coin fast a spin at this site. Also, you might want to experiment with Gold mode. It can ultimately give you a pitch-like tone deeper than the coin modes but of course no Tone ID (only visual target ID) and takes some getting used to because it also does not use traditional discrimination but instead an iron audio cancel setting that just breaks up signals it thinks are probable ferrous. Good luck.

Target IDs ARE displayed in Gold Field mode on the Deus as well. The ORX implementation of Gold Field mode is almost identical to Deus Gold Field with the exception of the range of adjustability of reactivity and no GB tracking.