Steve's Gold Nugget Detector Guide Update

[phrunt]

32 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I absolutely agree with all that and more Simon. The Gold Monster can drive some people nuts with coil knock sensitivity. I think it not coming with a normal telescoping rod is a crime. A screw together rod? Really? And as top heavy roll over prone as a Gold Bug 2. I think the 24K does the job as well or better in a better package, with better tuning options. But in the end, so what? People don’t want a Garrett, they want a Minelab.

Ask any dealer what people want and what is selling. Gold Monster all day long and just a smattering of other stuff. Thats just the way it is unless a dealer consciously tries to talk people into something else, and in sales it’s best to give people what they want, not what you think they need. Trying to switch horses can lose a sale as often as not, so you can’t blame most dealers for just going with the flow. And the flow is to the Minelab brand name.

This is why the guide is more important than ever in 2024 onwards.  It gives people information in a nice tidy easy to read format where they don't need to research and seperate the wheat from the chaff from someone with the knowledge that isn't trying to sell them stuff. 

The web is like the wild west when it comes to gathering information. to someone with little knowledge it's easy to be lead in the wrong direction.   It just may need to go into more intricate detail about models flaws and benefits than it used to while also keeping it brief and simple as with almost all models topping out with detection performance and being so similar in that regard the finer details are more necessary to seperate models.   The positives are negatives of models compared right down to ergonomics, headphones and things like the GM's screw together shaft and knock sensitivity and pointing out detectors like the 19kHz range are not as sensitive to small gold as the higher frequency models, all this stuff is common sense to those that understand it, but someone relatively new trying to navigate the information they have no idea and a bulk of the people needing the guide will be in that category.

A little list of Pro's and Con's with models would be great.

 

 

 

[Jeff McClendon]

I totally ditched the GPX 6000 for the Garrett Axiom and I am not sorry I did one bit. The Axiom, even with the weird focused core DD coils that I am still trying to get used to, is just a more fun and much more sensible detector to use and it is plenty sensitive to sub 0.1 gram gold.

Right after I ditched the GPX 6000 a friend of mine decided to sell his GPX 4000 in great shape with two coils and two good batteries for $800. Needless to say, I bit on that deal. 

So, I have two extremely capable PIs and too many super versatile SMFs that are great at gold prospecting to count. I can't find enough time to use them all!

After hearing about the Manticore M8 coil knock, maybe I will hold off even longer on buying an M8. The Manticore even with the 11" stock coil is super sensitive to small gold already.

[Steve Herschbach]

33 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

I totally ditched the GPX 6000 for the Garrett Axiom and I am not sorry I did one bit. The Axiom, even with the weird focused core DD coils that I am still trying to get used to, is just a more fun and much more sensible detector to use and it is plenty sensitive to sub 0.1 gram gold.

Well, the Axiom fan club has at least three members now! 

[GoodAmount]

Steve, I also wonder if there needs to be greater acknowledgement of the impact X-Coils has made on the extended capability of the 7000? I know unsanctioned hacks like these are contentious from an integrity perspective and I completely support an ideological stance on it to this end, but they are now an embedded part of the product ecology and one of the key contributors in keeping the machine in wide circulation and use.
 

There are many better examples than mine, but last year I stepped up from a QED to a second hand 7000 with a 17x12 X-Coil and immediately more than doubled my gold take. Then with the 8” X-Coil doubled nugget numbers again with the added ability to hit the tiny ones. I’m now quite happily keeping up with my prospecting buddy with his 6000 on small gold. Rightly or wrongly, X-Coils has extended the capability range of the 7000 and I’m wondering if it deserves calling out as a byline in the new review …even if clearly stating that you don’t support it?

 

[Steve Herschbach]

40 minutes ago, GoodAmount said:

Steve, I also wonder if there needs to be greater acknowledgement of the impact X-Coils has made on the extended capability of the 7000? I know unsanctioned hacks like these are contentious from an integrity perspective and I completely support an ideological stance on it to this end, but they are now an embedded part of the product ecology and one of the key contributors in keeping the machine in wide circulation and use.

There are many better examples than mine, but last year I stepped up from a QED to a second hand 7000 with a 17x12 X-Coil and immediately more than doubled my gold take. Then with the 8” X-Coil doubled nugget numbers again with the added ability to hit the tiny ones. I’m now quite happily keeping up with my prospecting buddy with his 6000 on small gold. Rightly or wrongly, X-Coils has extended the capability range of the 7000 and I’m wondering if it deserves calling out as a byline in the new review …even if clearly stating that you don’t support it?

That's simply not true. I think the X-Coil is one of the best things that ever happened to 7000 owners, and have friends that love them. They proved what the 7000 was capable of if Minelab had ever truly gave us coil support on the model. My issue was simply disclosure. The risk of the modification being done was totally downplayed initially and people with concerns where treated as if they were irrationally concerned over nothing. Yet I know a guy that blew up two 7000s at huge expense. So yeah, the risks were real. Now, it seems to be under control as better adapters have come about.

To repeat, I think X-Coil did a huge service by producing the coils they have. My only issue was with proper disclosure of the risks involved, which I believe were downplayed initially. And even that really is not on X-Coil as they really don't communicate directly. Nope, nothing but respect for them, and even wish they were running the coil show at Minelab. 

But do I think X-Coil has kept GPZ 7000 users on board when they might otherwise not be? Not really, because I truly believe that a GPZ 7000 with a stock coil is still the best detector option available for getting all the gold possible in a single pass over an area. That is why people use it. A GPX 5000 can hold it's own on the big solid stuff with the 7000 but the 7000 will kill it on specimen gold, no matter how many mods you do. A 6000 hits specimen and smaller gold only marginally better than a 7000, and as you note simply putting an X-Coil on it is enough to bring the 7000 to 6000 levels of performance there. In the end however it is the 7000 ability to punch deeper on big gold than a 6000 that keeps people using the 7000. Do X-Coils help extend the usefulness of the 7000? No doubt about it. But it does not change how I view the machine anyway, which is as the machine to own if you are really serious about wanting to put weight in your pocket. Not numbers - weight. If I have to cover one acre of ground just once, with one machine and one coil, and will never get a shot at that ground again, then I'd pick a GPZ 7000 with a stock coil as being as my best shot at getting the most weight out of the ground in one pass as is possible, both large and small, solid or specimen, but with the emphasis one weight. If a few small bits get missed that not going to matter as much as missing the bigger ones at depth, the real bread and butter that pays the bills.

Gotta admit I don't see anything to do with detecting as right or wrong or ideological. I'm a big fan of just using what works, and anyone thinking they have a corner on knowing exactly what that might be, most especially me, has not been around enough. These things are all just tools and it's about getting to know your tools, and knowing when to use this one or that one. And sometimes that is nothing more than just an educated guess at best. What works in Australia most decidedly will not work in some of my old haunts in Alaska, and that's a fact.

Now after barfing that all out, good idea, I'll mention X-Coil. 

[GoodAmount]

Great clarification! And agreed 👍 

[Aureous]

Steve, your DP guide is still amazingly relevant, and a lot of work has obviously gone into it. As you may recall, I started a book (haven't finished it, now I'm homeless and starting life No.4) and my top rated detectors for gold still haven't changed. In pure High Frequency VLF's the top 3 are still the 24K, the Gold Kruzer and the Gold Bug 2 (if the user can handle a manual ground balance). The Gold Monster wouldn't even make the top 10 with me... In Multi-use VLF's, the Nokta Legend and the Equinox 800/900 & prob the Manti deserves to be there too. In PI's, the 7000, the 6000, the 5000 and the 2300. Plus of course the Axiom deserves to be there....somewhere in between the 6000 and 5000. Anyone serious in getting into detector prospecting need not look anywhere else but the machines mentioned. Everything else is just 'fluff' 😉 

[phrunt]

While the X-coils have been a flawless exercise for those in Australia now that is because they have someone there making everyone's adapters for them and he's made many hundreds of them, and he's done a stellar job of it, never an issue, in fact he's even fixed up peoples OEM coils that have had connector problems inside the original cable where the chip resides thereby making their faulty OEM coil work properly again, even the original coils can get a soldering fault inside the plug end where the chip is, and it causes a coil error much like the one you see when a bad x-coil adapter is made.  Even a member of this forum from Australia had a faulty X-coil adapter, it was later found out it wasn't the adapter side that was at fault, it was the connections from the pins to the chip, on the Minelab end inside their sealed-up silicone coating of the adapter that had bad soldering, not the adapter itself which he discovered himself after advice from X-coils, and this isn't the only instance of this. 

Outside of Australia there is very limited options for adapters unless in Mongolia where there is a guy making them and in parts of Europe where X-coils can make the adapter for people if shipped to them, and I'd not recommend anyone take on the process unless they're very confident and skilled at soldering very fine wires, it's so easy to make a costly mistake if you don't know what you're doing or just are not as good at soldering as is required to make the adapter.  It's not like joining two standard gauge electrical wires, the shield wire in particular is very thin and easy to damage with too much heat.

For this reason, X-coils in a review like this are worth a mention for the improvements they have provided to the 7000 that Minelab have been holding back for I believe the GPZ 8000 but with a note of warning that their adapter should be professionally made.   If someone is desperate enough to use one so they don't have to buy another detector to pick up the scraps the GPZ misses in standard form or they just want a very big lighter coil for deep gold, they would be better off cutting the end off a coil they don't like want like the 19" coil which is a common use for it these days and can be picked up for as little as $400 AUD commonly $500 AUD and sending the end to Australia to have him make the adapter and post the adapter back to them, that saves on postage of sending entire coils back and forward between countries.

Steve's long been very accommodating of X-coils in general, but has just made sure it's well known the risks associated with modifications, rightly so and in a way, this probably contributed to there now being a guy making everyone's adapters in the first place which has been beneficial for X-coils now no longer having to worry about people making mistakes, and also for customers having a flawless experience in their transition to the coils.

[Gold Catcher]

I just hope ML is smart enough to see the opportunities to merge the next gen GPZ with cutting edge coil technology, such as Xcoils. It would be wise to team up, and perhaps at the same time address some of the alleged quality issues that I have heard around manufacturing quality, robustness and reliability? Perhaps X-coil tech, but Aussie made/certified? 

GC

[phrunt]

I don't think Minelab currently produce very reliable coils, look at the 6000 and how many have had multiple coils replaced, and the number of people that have at least had one faulty coil.  The numbers are astounding. 

Their Minelab genuine GPZ coils were much more reliable even though they're a far more difficult coil to make, I'm not sure what's gone on with their coil manufacturing but it's gone downhill substantially since then.