Issue With Axiom And Ground Noise

[Gone Bush]

2 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I'm glad your dealer was able to quickly get a new detector into your hands. The old one was "tainted" by your experience with it, and you may never really have trusted it, even if it was fixed to be good as new. And more to the point, that would have taken much longer. Looks like 2023 is off to a better start than 2022 ended on. 

Couldn’t have wanted better service from my dealer Jamie.
Any you are 100% correct on the trust comment.
That tiny bit of rusty sheet metal was like a wave of relief washing over me. All doubt removed.
Was happy to hang in Kalgoorlie until the hot weather eased up but now Im anxious to get back up north and hard boil my nuts if I have to just to hit some patches with Axiom.

[Gone Bush]

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

Thanks for the video, I liked your description of how the targets appear more defined in the threshold of the Axiom, and how it has less response to variable ground by not being so sensitive towards changes in the ground with it's better ground handling. 

I think once the aftermarket coil manufacturers start to tinker they'll be able to work some magic with the Axiom. 

The one thing missing I'd love that's missing on the 6000 is a way to turn it's ground tracking off, and the Axiom has that ability.  I'm glad Garrett didn't take the fully automatic path and left settings adjustments there, just enough settings to give the necessary control while still keeping it simple to use and it sounds like you'll be able to use these settings to your advantage for sure.

Glad you got it all sorted, and you're probably right, it's better a dud like that went to someone experienced like you as if it went to a newbie they'd never know it was a dud.  This is one of the concerns with the 6000 with it's faulty coils and EMI problems, how many people are out there that don't even know they've got a problematic one as they just don't have the experience to know how it should behave, especially when the detector is marketed towards anyone turning beginners to experts.

The gravel scratching was, I acknowledge, simplistic at best but is the only way I could think to describe how it is different to 6000 but it really is that simple.
While the 6000’s amazing at amplifying the smallest target signal Axiom seems to achieve the same result by handling the ground better therefore not having to put so much effort into amplification.

Agree completely.
The Nugget Finder 12 x 7 evaluation coil on 6000 is a drastic improvement over the standard 11” mono.
Once Coil Yoda (Rohan) at NF, (or whoever else) gets working on their own special black magic for Axiom coils, I am convinced there is more depth to be had.

Absolutely on the settings.
Because 6000 has really only one setting you can play with, (ground I encounter in Western Australia all requires difficult setting), that setting being sensitivity, that i run maxed out anyway, you don’t really miss the adjustability of Axiom until you have it.
That availability of adjustment will, I think, really come into play once some new coils are available and it can be cranked up to the max more often. Can’t wait.
 

[Steve Herschbach]

3 hours ago, Gone Bush said:

Hi Peter,

Lower numbers is lower tones and vice versa.

Having never taken all that much notice of tones before, especially when the 6000 is take it or leave it, I was quite surprised at just how much of a difference it makes when you make the effort to narrow down a tone that suits your own hearing abilities.
Probalby should have mentioned that it is beneficial to temporarily revert to a tone that doesn’t suit you as a demonstration of just how much tone adjustment helps.

Many older detectorists have poor high frequency hearing, and an ability to adjust the tone can have an amazingly large impact. You simply can’t hear what you can’t hear. I saw this literally when testing the Axiom with several people. One guy could not hear targets I thought were clear as day. I mean like I’m hearing strong signal, he is hearing nothing. So yeah, people should adjust the tone while over test targets and pick the one that really stands out for them. It’s a personal thing, so what setting another person uses is immaterial. You have to adjust for your own ear.

While I prefer the VCO audio, people should try the “ATX Audio” setting also, for the very same reason. Totally different audio response, and it may work better for some people. Don’t pay attention to people that say they don’t like it. Just try it for yourself. There are no right or wrong audio settings, just those that work best for each person.

 

[phrunt]

This test is pretty cool to demonstrate high frequency hearing loss, I've got slightly younger hearing than my age which is a good thing.  It's best to use headphones to do the test.

Having the ability to adjust the tones is a good feature for the Axiom to have.

[PhaseTech]

Hi Ray, just curious, have you taken the new Axiom back to the spot you did the first video in? 

In that first video it reminds me of the days on the 4500 or 5000, when someone was trying to run a mono coil in Normal or Sens Extra, and a flick to Enhance just smooths it right out, and all those hot ground signals largely just disappear. 

Q2. Where you are saying that in certain spots the 6000 just doesn't like the ground for some reason, I'm suspecting a higher salt concentration in those areas. Have you tried the 14" DD in this instance? 

[Gone Bush]

Back to the creek today as promised.

This is the most variable, mineralised and difficult ground I know.
The creek bed is filled not only with your run of the mill hot red dirt, it’s also filled with pockets of highly reactive tiny iron beads, sometimes a wheel barrow full washed into one corner.
Just like the ones you see that lay all over the ground and make it look blue/grey.
On the hot side of the creek up on the flat there are also lots of these but they don’t seem as reactive as the ones in the creek.
Also, on the level ground they are well spread out rather than in thicker pocket.
Theres also hundreds of pieces of what I assume would be kerosine tins or tobacco tins from one end of the creek to the other.
Little flat things about the size of a grain of rice and paper thin. One sharp end too as I found.
With the 6000 I would wear headphones here.
Running maxed out its too noisy to hear a target on what is a shit speaker.
Used Axiom with speaker, volume on 25 (max) so the phone would pick it up and had no trouble hearing targets and differentiating those from ground noise.
Sensitivity 7 was quite usable (for me at least) but 8 was pushing the friendship.
Sensitivity 4 was a walk in the park however I like to run a detector as hot as possible so likely will predominately run it with headphones on 7 or maybe 8 if I can get away with it.

More impressive every time I use it.

 

[Gone Bush]

2 hours ago, PhaseTech said:

Hi Ray, just curious, have you taken the new Axiom back to the spot you did the first video in? 

In that first video it reminds me of the days on the 4500 or 5000, when someone was trying to run a mono coil in Normal or Sens Extra, and a flick to Enhance just smooths it right out, and all those hot ground signals largely just disappear. 

Q2. Where you are saying that in certain spots the 6000 just doesn't like the ground for some reason, I'm suspecting a higher salt concentration in those areas. Have you tried the 14" DD in this instance? 

Hi Nenad,

Long time. Still got the 7000 we bought of you but it’s an ornament most of the time.

See post before this one for return to the creek.
Fiona had her 4800 in the creek in video 1 and on the weird hot ground in video 2.
On both occasions Enhance was required to make it usable.

Im not convinced it’s salt at location in video 2.
Have tried the DD on 6000 there with varying results. Better but not by much.
6000 with mono coil is usable in both locations maxed out but requires headphones and patience.
The southern end of location 2 has been excavated and it’s not really what I would consider salty ground.
Haven’t got my XRF with me or I would test the ground and then know for sure but I’m pretty confident it’s something other than salt.

The creek is a good test and Axiom was surprisingly good there but there is an even better test in its future.
Out at Mindolah on the lease where the 200 ounce hole is, there is an area down by the creek about 300 metres by 80 metres that has so far been undetectable.
Test holes showed it as the best ground on the lease.
We did scrape off 6 inches with the backhoe and dry blow that about 8 years ago, (3 and a bit ounces), but as yet no detector or coil combination can provide a usable threshold.
I personally have tried the 7000 and the 6000 with mono and DD coil. Two days I’ll never get back.
Many have tried and failed there so for me it will be very interesting to see how Axiom handles it.
Don't hold out much hope to be honest but you never know.

[peterinaust]

Can I ask a question on the Axiom ground balance, shows two numbers on the screen. Why two numbers? what do they represent?

Cheers

[Gone Bush]

15 minutes ago, peterinaust said:

Can I ask a question on the Axiom ground balance, shows two numbers on the screen. Why two numbers? what do they represent?

Cheers

Hi Peter,

Absolutely no idea.
Im sure they mean something and maybe Garrett themselves would be best to answer that question.
All I use them for is a comparison between locations.
If it’s unfamiliar ground, when I first turn on and ground balance it gives me an idea of what to expect.
Say its 45/20 I know mono coil will be fine but if it’s 60/30 then I need to pay attention because a DD might be needed.
Having said that, I will do almost anything to avoid taking a mono coil off and going to a DD.
Only once have I used the DD on 6000 for any more than curiosity and that was on the lease down by the creek.
Every other location the 6000 was usable maxed out with mono, admittedly sometimes with a very slow sweep and travel speed but it worked and found gold none the less.

Been thinking about the ways the two machines are different and perhaps the amount of concentration required is another thing I have noticed.
Being able to max out 6000 and then run it in really difficult locations requires constant concentration to pick out those very weak dips/rises in the threshold that indicate a very small or deep target.
Cant yet comment on the deep target sounds for Axiom but small targets do seem to require less focus to hear.
Dont know that Axiom processes the audio response in a dramatically better way than 6000 but It seems the threshold sits at a lower level so I think this makes the target response seem to be better than 6000 when in reality it could quite possibly be no different.
Once I get back to the bush and onto some patches I will keep everyone informed on results or lack thereof ??