A 4 Hour Hunt

[longbow62]

I took the Manticore to a site I have worn out over the last couple of years. The ground there is really mild and sandy. The Manticore and Nox 800 GB in the high single digits. Every silver and Wheat cent there is basically close to or the edge of detection. The 800 has been a killer detector at this site. Park1, 5 tones,recovery 4, F2-0, and sensitivity as high as I can run the detector stable. Most of the time 22-23. I have found 15 silver dimes, 2 silver quarters, 1 Walker half dollar, and probably 10-15 nickels mostly buffs, and well over 50 wheat cents. Probably more like 75-100 but never really counted them. Again all of these coins were deep. Dimes, pennies, and nickels 9" plus. Quarters 12" or more. The Half Dollar was ridiculous. This is very mild ground. I might add the last 2 hunts there before today I got a Merc and several wheat cents each hunt, but it's getting really tough to find any coin now.

So I thought this would be a good spot to test out the Manticore. I started out in AT General 50 tones normal and simple. I ground balanced to high single digits. I did a long press noise cancel several times during the hunt. I could only run what I considered stable to a 25 sensitivity. I lowered the upper ferrous limits to 8, and the lower to 3. There is some deep iron at this place. You hear iron grunts most of the time, but it's deep and not like shotgun iron. I only got fooled by one deep nail. I tried to hunt just like I do with my 800. That is not digging a bunch of iffy beeps. By this I mean I'm pretty sure it's a coin when I dig. The first thing I dug was a roundish piece of rotten pot metal ringing 28-30. Then I got a really deep not to bouncy 88-92 that turned out to be a piece of copper about the size of a quarter. It was not going really as I expected as I was not finding that many deeper targets I could without a doubt know were coins. I got another 28-30 decently deep 6"-7" that turned out to be an I.D. bracelet. The 2D trace was smeared but on the non-ferrous line. I don't know why this was missed before other than on the Nox it might have rang it up more like a pull tab.

I did dig a 4"-5" memorial that sounded good, but the 2D trace was smeared. It turned out to be the Memorial and a rotten zinc in the same hole. I keep on detecting for quite awhile, but I am not hearing anything deep that sounds worth digging. So I decide to go find a Wheat in my vehicle and bury it 9"-10" to see what it sounds like. So I do this making sure it's the right depth and flat in the hole. I covered it up and swing over it and I'm not really impressed. The Manticore hits it, but it was jumpy in my opinion. Also occasionally I would get a red line under the number. I noise canceled again, and it was not really any better. I changed to AT High Conductors normal and simple. I re-GBed and noise canceled. This time I thought it did hit the Wheat harder, and somewhat more stable numbers. I go to the vehicle and get my 800. I fire it up GB, noise cancel run it up to 22, and to me it hits the wheat better than the Manticore does. It's easier to tell it's deep. This was an early wheat ringing up more like an IHP does. 19-21 and pretty solid. The 800 settings are Park1, F2-0, Recovery 4, 5 tones, and 22 sensitivity.

So now I'm a little frustrated. I keep hunting and I do end up finding 2 Wheat cents. One was very deep. The other more like 7"-8". I was pretty sure they were Wheats before I dug them, but I still think I would have been even more sure with the 800. In 5 tones it's just a smoother high tone that to me is more solid a hit. I have it setup for IHP and above to highest pitch. That's 18, and above.

So I am not like head over heels impressed with the Manticore performance right now. This was mild ground too. Maybe I need to set up 5 tones like on my Equinox. I am not used to the Manticore or 50 tones for that matter. To me the Manticore 50 tones is nothing like the Etrac tones. 50 tones, on 4 recovery speed with the Manticore seems harsh and very elongated for my taste. Like each tone is not sharp and quick over a target.

Lastly the Manticore from about 8 hours I have on it is a lot different than the Equinox 800. 8 hours ain't squat behind a new detector, but enough for me to see it's going to take awhile to get any kind of confidence with it.         

[JCR]

It could be that running the new detector in 5 tone like you are used to could help build your confidence. It was suggested by NASA Tom to use Recovery 2 if possible to get the maximum depth. All in all I think you did well on a hard hunted site with a new machine.

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[longbow62]

I'm definitely setting up 5 tones on the Manticore before next weekend to see if I can get it to act like the Nox 800 does in 5 tones. Also I ran horseshoe on the whole hunt like I do on the Equinox. 

[steveg]

Longbow,

A couple of things...

1.  You said that with the Equinox, on the deep coins "it's easier to tell that it's deep."

That is due to the sound profile you chose -- "simple."  I might suggest you read up on the different tonal options, as there are a number of them and each one has different "modulation" characteristics, which is explained in detail; pages 40ish to 44ish (if I recall) in the manual.  "Simple" is explained in the manual as having VERY LITTLE modulation -- i.e. deep and shallow targets sound similar.  So, the issue with this specific point you made, is very likely to be PURELY in the sound profile you chose.  "Normal" has more modulation than simple, and then "rich" would have even MORE.

2.  You said the wheat you buried was more "bouncy/jumpy" on the Manticore, whereas you feel your Equinox gives you a "smoother high tone" with a "more solid hit."  HOWEVER, you also said you run your Equinox in 5 tones, with 18 VDI and above (Indians and higher) giving you the "highest pitch."  HOWEVER, you had the Manticore set up in "all tones"...which would entirely explain the bouncier VDIs, and the "less smooth/less solid" tone.  It is a bit of comparing apples and oranges, to some degree, going from what you were used to (5 tones) to "all tones" on the Manticore.  Running 5 tones, with your "coin bin" set at the highest pitch, certainly would give you a more "smooth high tone" and a more "solid" hit, compared to "all tones."  And since a wheat cent that reads low, like an Indian, it would of course not report with a tone that is near as high-pitched as your "highest tone" in your 5th tone bin on the Equinox.  So, YES -- I would entirely agree with your conclusion in the last paragraph, that you need to set up the Manticore in 5 tones, to make an accurate comparison between the two (though I do think "all tones" would be a superior way to hunt, in order to glean as much nuance as possible from detected targets).

Just some thoughts...

Steve

 

[steveg]

longbow --

OOPS -- I posted two minutes after you did, and so didn't see your most recent response, where you said you plan to set it up in 5 tones next time.  You might try moving your sound profile to "normal," to get the modulation you are looking for, or even to "rich," if "normal" isn't enough...

Steve

[longbow62]

1 hour ago, steveg said:

longbow --

OOPS -- I posted two minutes after you did, and so didn't see your most recent response, where you said you plan to set it up in 5 tones next time.  You might try moving your sound profile to "normal," to get the modulation you are looking for, or even to "rich," if "normal" isn't enough...

Steve

Normal and Rich is super quite even with volume maxed out at 25. You might miss really deep targets on the rich setting. I could barely hear a 12" quarter or 10" dime. That's why I thought AT General was deeper than AT High Conductors because the stock setting in AT HC is the rich setting. I was testing at edge of detection and could barely hear the tones.

I just went in and set up 5 tones. I made a few slight adjustments to it, and will probably make more before I'm done. I'll try it in coin garden tomorrow to see how it sounds on in the ground targets.

[longbow62]

Maybe I'm missing something about running 50 tones? I hunted a lot of trashy places so 50 could be mind numbing. I was really frustrated today trying to use 50 tones on super deep targets with the Manticore. Personally I can't tell an aluminum screw cap from a memorial penny by tone alone in 50 tones. Same with dimes. Some might be worn so they could read really low like a copper penny or screw cap range even. So I have to look at the I.D. anyway to see how it's acting. Depth helps in judging those dig or no digs too. The Equinox 5 tones has some tonal variation. Like scratchy or sputtering. They are not totally without subtleties.      

[abenson]

By 50 tones do you mean 1 region all tones? I'm guessing that's what you mean. If you're used to running 5 tones on the Equinox, going to all tones in the Manticore is going to be tough. I personally have used 50 tones on the Equinox since I got it so all tones on the Manticore/900 for me is familiar.

Just a suggestion and trying to offer some help. I personally would bury a dime at different depths and run the Manticore over them trying different modes, sensitivity, recovery settings, etc to get a feel for what sounds good to you and what doesn't. Going straight into the field with a new detector can be frustrating especially if your targeting deeper stuff. 

In my area dimes are essentially out of detecting range at 7 inches due to high mineralization. In my test garden with the Manticore I'm finding general and low conductor modes are actually better on deep dimes the high conductor. If I hadn't done these tests before going out and just assuming high conductor would work best in my local park I too would have been frustrated.

[longbow62]

I think the default in AT General is 2 region all tones. I stayed in 2 region all tones, but had changed it to normal and simple. I thought normal and simple was probably like the 800's 50 tones. Maybe because the Manticore has more available tone settings I just picked the wrong one. Maybe Normal and Medium would have been better. Regardless my 800 with my preferred settings hit this 10"+ deep wheat cent just as good as the Manticore in AT High Conductors, and better than the Manticore in AT General. Maybe better than both. This is super mild ground with most old coins at max depth so I was surprised at the results when I swung both detectors over the wheat cent. 

The reason I took the Manticore there is because it should like the 800 achieve it's max possible depth there in the really mild sandy soil. The Manticore according to Minelab should be deeper than the 800. It may be deeper, but in that situation the 800 was much better in giving a tonal report and I.D. that said dig. I guess it's entirely possible the Manticore was actually giving me more info than the 800 was, and being a new user I could not decipher what it was telling me. This coming weekend I am taking the Manticore to an area with a much different soil type. I am going to continue to compare more targets against my 800. I have set up 5 tones on the Manticore so both detectors will be more equal tonally.   

[midalake]

12 hours ago, longbow62 said:

Maybe I'm missing something about running 50 tones? I hunted a lot of trashy places so 50 could be mind numbing.

I don't know how anyone can hunt in Mother-in-law 50 tones mode.