X-Terra Pro - Do We Need Another Single Frequency Detector?

[Guest]

On 2/15/2023 at 5:02 AM, Monte said:

And let's not ignore the Quest Q60 in the selectable SF game.

Monte,

What is your experience with Quest detectors? I am keeping an eye on the rollout of the V80 at the moment. 

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Minelab didn't even believe it themselves even before Xterra Pro, otherwise why did they include SF on the Nox?

The whole SMF vs SF debate is kind of ridiculous.  We don't have to chose one or the other anymore as Nox, Apex, D2, Legend, Manticore, and the forthcoming Quest V60/V80 all have multiple selectable single frequency as a feature along side Simultaneous MF.

This is the thing that confuses me. Why do selective single frequency alone when it is included on simultaneous multi frequency machines for very little more? So much more bang for the buck.

I have single and selectable now and am looking to add a multi next year. They tend to be special purpose machines that I want to add to without huge cost. The Legend would fit that easily, but why add a selectable to that when it is already on the Legend or Nox or the V80 that is getting ready to launch.

My bias is always toward what I do, and sometimes I fail to see the use of something that is not useful to me. Thanks for the discussion.

[Nuke em]

2 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

If it does come in in a price targeted between the Simplex ($279 US) and the Legend($499 US), it will be competitive.  The Legend has selectable single frequency too and high recovery (which is why the Anfibios and Impacts are not long for this world despite some of their advanced filtering), so if ML overshoots Legend in price, then I see no point in this (except for the reason I described below).

If you already have a 900, not sure what this brings to the table on dry sand as you can always go to SF on the Nox and this should have similar behavior to a Nox in SF.  However, I do see one advantage in wet salt sand and seawater with the X-terra Pro.  If ML is indeed using the square wave demod scheme mentioned by Carl above to achieve salt balance from SF 8khz  Beach Mode vice being locked in Multi-IQ in Beach mode like the Nox, it might provide an advantage in severe EMI situations, which is something I know challenges you on your beaches, Nuke Em.

I have the 800 and the 900 but i like to use them for the sand which only comes when the tide is right out or on long tides. They are also a lot more money to buy than the Terra is. I always got on with the 705 on the dry and took it all the way to low tide but not in the wet. 

I think i would more than likely replace my 800 with the Terra Pro then i have all i need. Also i have been watching many Manticore videos and i am not very impressed with it. Price is too high, it seems unstable a lot of the time. And for a top end machine it should have a 5 year warranty. The 900 and i think the Terra Pro are worth it. 

This year most of my detecting on the beaches will be with 3 machines from when i get the Terra. That will be with the Terra , Legend and the 900 after the 800 is sold. The 800 found me a Platinum ring yesterday so i have to say not bad. 

Might keep it and get the Terra anyway. Wish Minelab would give me one to test. But then they wont LOL

As for EMI? At the moment there is only one machine i have that can handle the noise that happens on my beaches. More through me knowing the machine than the machine stopping it and thats the E.Trac.

But that machine is in reserve. If the Terra can handle 2 areas without too much trouble then i will be happy. Those areas are Volks railway and the i360 . 

Then again there isn't much cash like there used to be now cashless is so bad. 

[Chase Goldman]

2 hours ago, Geezer said:

Monte,

What is your experience with Quest detectors? I am keeping an eye on the rollout of the V80 at the moment. 

This is the thing that confuses me. Why do selective single frequency alone when it is included on simultaneous multi frequency machines for very little more? So much more bang for the buck.

I have single and selectable now and am looking to add a multi next year. They tend to be special purpose machines that I want to add to without huge cost. The Legend would fit that easily, but why add a selectable to that when it is already on the Legend or Nox or the V80 that is getting ready to launch.

My bias is always toward what I do, and sometimes I fail to see the use of something that is not useful to me. Thanks for the discussion.

I guess White’s technically broke the selectable SF or SMF mold by providing the capability to select SMF or the individual SMF frequencies in its Spectra series detectors.  But combined SF/SMF (and even multiple selectable single frequency) was otherwise scarce until ML transformed the detector landscape in 2018 by providing the choice of SMF/SF and relative affordability in one package.  Garrett’s Apex made combined SMF/SF even more affordable than the Nox 600, though it’s SMF capability lagged Nox and the SMF-only Vanquish in performance.  Following on the heels of XP’s relatively expensive but very capable SF/SMF offering, Nokta confirmed you can have the combined SMF/SF feature set and top notch SMF performance and submergibility at an Apex price point!  ML answered the D2’s powerful SMF with Manticore, and now Quest is jumping in with what appears on to be a capable SMF/SF machine with some twists (a higher top end SF setting at 60 khz and SMF with an 80 kHz top end, and features utilizing the V60/80’s Gyro sensor).

So now that combined SMF/SF is somewhat commonplace, the only driver for providing a selectable single frequency detector without SMF, would be to fill a value/price market segment gap, provide a unique capability not possible with SMF and/or to attract those who have not bought into nor are willing to pay extra for SMF, for whatever reason.  Other than the odd choice of 8khz SF beach mode, there is nothing apparent that ML is trying “sell” regarding the Xterra in terms of special performance or why SF without a combined SMF feature set should be seriously considered by detectorists.  ML must just recognize there is a demand for a selectable single frequency detector that has the latest and greatest in the bells and whistles department but without the desire to also have SMF.

[Chase Goldman]

34 minutes ago, Nuke em said:

This year most of my detecting on the beaches will be with 3 machines from when i get the Terra. That will be with the Terra , Legend and the 900 after the 800 is sold. The 800 found me a Platinum ring yesterday so i have to say not bad. 

Might keep it and get the Terra anyway.

Do you find the 900 TIDs to be stable vs. the 800?

[phrunt]

They left out SMF as then it would be a better than Nox 600 detector, they wanted to fill a void to compete with something, possibly the Simplex, and it will destroy the Simplex if the sale price is similar, no way would I choose a Simplex over an X-Terra. 

I was initially very disappointed with the Manticore target ID stability, this was resolved by changing how I think when it comes to sensitivity, lower = more stable ID's on deep coins.  With the Nox 800 I found higher sensitivity = more stable ID on my deep coins.  Now while not quite as stable as the Vanquish it's not all that different to the Nox 800 stability.

[Chase Goldman]

42 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I was initially very disappointed with the Manticore target ID stability, this was resolved by changing how I think when it comes to sensitivity, lower = more stable ID's on deep coins.  With the Nox 800 I found higher sensitivity = more stable ID on my deep coins.  Now while not quite as stable as the Vanquish it's not all that different to the Nox 800 stability.

Problem is the Nox 900 is not a Manticore.

[Nuke em]

2 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Do you find the 900 TIDs to be stable vs. the 800?

They are like the Manticore by the looks of the vids i have seen of the Manticore on Youtube. And bit jumpy . But they give a rough idea. And are better than the 800 which you cannot tell what you are digging unless you know the targets in the area .

[Daniel Tn]

I've never found the selectable single frequency machines to be the equivalent to a straight forward single frequency machine of the same kHz.  For example, 12 or 15 kHz on the Manticore, Nox, etc falls way short of the 13 kHz Fisher F75 and Whites MXT.  The first thought is: they should be similar. But I much prefer straight forward single freq machines vs selectable freq.  I've never ran into a situation or place when using a SMF machine, where the selectable single freq does better than Multi on the same machine.  I played with it some this morning on the D2 and Manticore.  On both machines, multi freq ruled.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Daniel Tn said:

I've never found the selectable single frequency machines to be the equivalent to a straight forward single frequency machine of the same kHz.  For example, 12 or 15 kHz on the Manticore, Nox, etc falls way short of the 13 kHz Fisher F75 and Whites MXT.  The first thought is: they should be similar. But I much prefer straight forward single freq machines vs selectable freq.  I've never ran into a situation or place when using a SMF machine, where the selectable single freq does better than Multi on the same machine.  I played with it some this morning on the D2 and Manticore.  On both machines, multi freq ruled.

Now that is something I never even thought of in this context. Why do you think that might be?