Interesting Story

[Mark Gillespie]

Recently had a very puzzling yet intriguing ground target while just fulling around, listening to the ground.  Before I go on I must state I traded my Equinox 800 in for a new Deus 2 detector, several weeks ago.  I had used the Equinox for over 6 years and it was kind of time to trade up.  Well anyway, I came across a very nice text book audio, repeatable, sweet sounding high tone, very faint, I knew it had to be something good perhaps a dime or penny and deep sounding.  Decided to play around with the different programs on the Deus to see which would give the best audio and most stable ID.  All the programs would get the target with varying audio responses and fairly consistent ID.  Now I must admit I hunt with the coil just lightly scrubbing the ground.  Experimented with the typical settings, sensitivity, reactivity, sweep speed etc.  During all this I inadvertently must have slight raised to coil off the ground and the detector automatically went from a nice high tone to a low iron tone. Continued to sweep over the target, lowering to scrub the ground and the high tone with the ID returned, raised the coil and the iron tone and ID returned.  Experimented for over 15 minuted and never found a setting or program that didn't exhibit the same behavior when raising the coil only slightly.  To end this story the target was an 8" dime and by what I could tell laying perfectly flat.

Now turn the clock back a couple months, the same type of occurrence happened to both Fred (the only living hunting buddy I presently have) and I.  We were hunting an old plantation comparing signals before digging having a fantastic day and Fred called me over to check a target before he dug.  That day he was using the Manticore and I the Equinox, if he raised the coil only slightly the Manticore would go silent with only an occasional high/low tone but no ID.  I tried the Equinox and basically got the same results.  Puzzling, intriguing.  Well anyway he dug and recovered a horse bridle relic.  
Now this leads me back to yet another story where I was hunting with the F75 and the 5" coil.  Located a nice repeatable tone and called Fred over with the Manticore and he got nothing, only silence, no audio or ID.  He tried every possible setting with no positive results.  Finally he switched to single frequency mode and the target came alive.  Still not satisfied, he experimented for quite some time yet never found a setting or combination of setting while in the Multi-Frequency mode that would indicate a target that the F75 had found.  Adding to this the Equinox exhibited the same type behavior. 

Just thought I'd share some of our experiences.

[D&P-OR]

28 minutes ago, Mark Gillespie said:

Recently had a very puzzling yet intriguing ground target while just fulling around, listening to the ground.  Before I go on I must state I traded my Equinox 800 in for a new Deus 2 detector, several weeks ago.  I had used the Equinox for over 6 years and it was kind of time to trade up.  Well anyway, I came across a very nice text book audio, repeatable, sweet sounding high tone, very faint, I knew it had to be something good perhaps a dime or penny and deep sounding.  Decided to play around with the different programs on the Deus to see which would give the best audio and most stable ID.  All the programs would get the target with varying audio responses and fairly consistent ID.  Now I must admit I hunt with the coil just lightly scrubbing the ground.  Experimented with the typical settings, sensitivity, reactivity, sweep speed etc.  During all this I inadvertently must have slight raised to coil off the ground and the detector automatically went from a nice high tone to a low iron tone. Continued to sweep over the target, lowering to scrub the ground and the high tone with the ID returned, raised the coil and the iron tone and ID returned.  Experimented for over 15 minuted and never found a setting or program that didn't exhibit the same behavior when raising the coil only slightly.  To end this story the target was an 8" dime and by what I could tell laying perfectly flat.

Now turn the clock back a couple months, the same type of occurrence happened to both Fred (the only living hunting buddy I presently have) and I.  We were hunting an old plantation comparing signals before digging having a fantastic day and Fred called me over to check a target before he dug.  That day he was using the Manticore and I the Equinox, if he raised the coil only slightly the Manticore would go silent with only an occasional high/low tone but no ID.  I tried the Equinox and basically got the same results.  Puzzling, intriguing.  Well anyway he dug and recovered a horse bridle relic.  
Now this leads me back to yet another story where I was hunting with the F75 and the 5" coil.  Located a nice repeatable tone and called Fred over with the Manticore and he got nothing, only silence, no audio or ID.  He tried every possible setting with no positive results.  Finally he switched to single frequency mode and the target came alive.  Still not satisfied, he experimented for quite some time yet never found a setting or combination of setting while in the Multi-Frequency mode that would indicate a target that the F75 had found.  Adding to this the Equinox exhibited the same type behavior. 

Just thought I'd share some of our experiences.

That's interesting.-----As effective as they are--I've known for years that a person has to be pretty much scuffing the ground with the Minelab FBS machines---Etracs & CTXs (at least in the areas I've hunted in) to get a good "hit" on the deeper targets (coins).--The Deus 2s have been much the same way (in SMF).---Interesting what you said about the Manticore & Equinox.------Question:  Was the F75 running with the "boost" feature activated?---It's supposed to be known for its ability to get target responses with the coil above ground level (rocks, brush & debris).

[Mark Gillespie]

Yes, boost was enabled.  I really love the boost mode.

 

[Skull diver]

@Mark Gillespie

Accidentally, I experienced the same behavior last night, but I was not in research.

During an M12 connector repair and before a resin pour to restore the headset on the Ctx, I tried swinging a coin to get a signal.

Besides discovering that one of the two speakers is now in need of replacement, having a significantly lower sound, the coin swung at a greater distance was barely being read and with a hopping ID both high and wide in the two FE/CO parameters.

Then moved closer to the coil, the signal began to become more stable and distinct.

It therefore happens with and without ground, in spite of whatever frequency is in use.It is always a matter of the distance to the coil varying the effective reading from a missed or improper detection.

With the Deus2 I always have the impression that during the air test, the detection is at effective at a lesser distance from the coil, and then dig pits deep to the point where I wonder if it is possible with a 9" to get that far.

I would honestly add that put on the board both instruments, to date I regret the placement of the CTX on the low conductors to the detriment of less depth and effectiveness while I get the exact opposite with the Deus2, certainly having more depth and ID stability but always having to be alert on 50 different potential points for gold out of 99...
I explicitly asked Xp about the possibility of working on this "issue" and received a flat no.
(My 2 cents)

[Lodge Scent]

Mark, that's normal behavior for the D2. Nonferrous at the edge of detection can sound like ferrous. I'm not surprised that when you raised your coil when over a faint deep target that it went from "good to bad".

[UKD2User]

5 hours ago, Lodge Scent said:

Mark, that's normal behavior for the D2. Nonferrous at the edge of detection can sound like ferrous. I'm not surprised that when you raised your coil when over a faint deep target that it went from "good to bad".

I think that all machines probably do it to some extent - perhaps not so noticeably. My Nox 800 definitely does it. I think that the basic laws of physics make it inevitable.

[F350Platinum]

One of the things that might cause this phenomenon with the Deus 2 is low Audio Response. Another could be soil mineralization, and raising the coil could pick up nearby iron.

Honestly I've owned the D2 for two years now, and I have not seen nor do I remember a single instance where this phenomenon has occurred. It would have stood out plainly. 

I rarely encounter mineralization, but every single target that I got the solid indication was iron, was iron. I've often seen the reverse where I will get a solid and loud 85, and dig a cannonball or an axe head. 😏

It could be my settings, some of which are extreme. I too keep my coil very low, but try that in high grass, bean or corn stalks. I'll use Relic for that because it is specifically designed for hunting with the coil higher.

I'd like to see some video proof, especially with Audio response turned all the way up to 7 in V2.

"Lifting" for me will identify aluminum or large iron targets. It may also cause me not to dig a big brass padlock 🙄 Small non ferrous items simply disappear, a great indication to dig them.

There is another phenomenon I've noticed however, the "magic disappearing target". You get a great signal, dig the plug out, and the item disappears. Stomping the plug flat and sweeping over it and sweeping over the hole produces nothing.

I immediately get out my trusty MI-6, check the hole with it, and find the target. It's either small or on edge after digging, more rarely in the plug.

[NCtoad]

37 minutes ago, F350Platinum said:

 

There is another phenomenon I've noticed however, the "magic disappearing target". You get a great signal, dig the plug out, and the item disappears. Stomping the plug flat and sweeping over it and sweeping over the hole produces nothing.

I immediately get out my trusty MI-6, check the hole with it, and find the target. It's either small or on edge after digging, more rarely in the plug.

This exact same thing has happened to me many times.  I’m not sure what causes it….maybe some type of halo effect?   If I’m remembering correctly this usually happens on deep targets.  
 

As to the OP lifting his coil and getting an iron tone, that dime was probably on the edge of detection.  

[Digalicious]

56 minutes ago, F350Platinum said:

I've often seen the reverse where I will get a solid and loud 85, and dig a cannonball or an axe head. 😏

 

When that happens, does your FE/CO bar meter show some bars on the FE side, and no bars on the CO side?

I'm also confused about the lifting the coil on a good nonferrous target, and the detector then ID's it as ferrous. I mean, every detector does that, because by lifting the coil, the target's signal strength is reduced to eventually reach minimum. All nonferrous objects will ID as ferrous when there is minimal signal strength on it.

[JCR]

The Ground rules. Mineralized ground rules harshly.  Often frustrating, but all these variables keep things interesting & make you continue to learn.