Interesting Story

[F350Platinum]

3 hours ago, Digalicious said:

All nonferrous objects will ID as ferrous when there is minimal signal strength on it.

Or just disappear, which is beneficial for me. If I get a good tone, lift, and it disappears i'm digging it! 😀

I've just never heard one go to iron... 🤔

[Digalicious]

6 minutes ago, F350Platinum said:

Or just disappear, which is beneficial for me. If I get a good tone, lift, and it disappears in digging it! 😀

I've just never heard one go to iron... 🤔

That's interesting. I haven't used a D2, but I've never seen or experienced a detector that didn't eventually ID a nonferrous target as ferrous, once it reached its detection limit. From what I've seen, a detector can't provide accurate TID with a very low signal strength, so it defaults to a ferrous TID and tone, although sometimes a ferrous TID with a nonferrous tone. 

I also asked you about the FE/CO meter on your D2, but please ignore that question for now. I'm curious if and how D2 owners use that meter, so I'll start a new thread on it 🙂

[F350Platinum]

1 hour ago, Digalicious said:

That's interesting. I haven't used a D2, but I've never seen or experienced a detector that didn't eventually ID a nonferrous target as ferrous, once it reached its detection limit. From what I've seen, a detector can't provide accurate TID with a very low signal strength, so it defaults to a ferrous TID and tone, although sometimes a ferrous TID with a nonferrous tone. 

I also asked you about the FE/CO meter on your D2, but please ignore that question for now. I'm curious if and how D2 owners use that meter, so I'll start a new thread on it 🙂

Yeah sorry, I usually use the XY screen, so no meter. 🙂 Been using Tekkna lately tho.

Where I hunt there is no mineralization at all. 

[GB_Amateur]

On 2/28/2024 at 4:07 PM, Mark Gillespie said:

Observation 1:  ...(With the XP Deus 2) I inadvertently must have slight raised to coil off the ground and the detector automatically went from a nice high tone to a low iron tone. Continued to sweep over the target, lowering to scrub the ground and the high tone with the ID returned, raised the coil and the iron tone and ID returned.  Experimented for over 15 minuted and never found a setting or program that didn't exhibit the same behavior when raising the coil only slightly.  To end this story the target was an 8" dime and by what I could tell laying perfectly flat.

On 2/28/2024 at 4:07 PM, Mark Gillespie said:

Observation 2:  ...(Fred) was using the Manticore and I the Equinox, if he raised the coil only slightly the Manticore would go silent with only an occasional high/low tone but no ID.  I tried the Equinox and basically got the same results.  Puzzling, intriguing.  Well anyway he dug and recovered a horse bridle relic.

On 2/28/2024 at 4:07 PM, Mark Gillespie said:

Observation 3:  (Earlier) I was hunting with the F75 and the 5" coil.  Located a nice repeatable tone and called Fred over with the Manticore and he got nothing, only silence, no audio or ID.  He tried every possible setting with no positive results.  Finally he switched to single frequency mode and the target came alive.  Still not satisfied, he experimented for quite some time yet never found a setting or combination of setting while in the Multi-Frequency mode that would indicate a target that the F75 had found.  Adding to this the Equinox exhibited the same type behavior.

I've taken the liberty of enumerating three things from Mark's initial post that started this thread.  It seems most of the discussion has centered on Observation 1.  Unfortunately (AFAIK) I haven't seen anyone who typically detects in mineralized ground take part in this discussion.  (Where's @Chase Goldman who's detected Culpeper, VA with many detectors?)  I can tell you this (as always the caveat 2-3 bar out of 6 Fe3O4 meter reading on the Fisher F75):  For in ground test targets, the F75 (13 kHz single frequency) goes from non-ferrous to ferrous as depth increases on high conductive coins (and maybe most/all non-ferrous targets).  BUT, in air tests, as the distance to the target increases, the signal stays high tone (non-ferrous), just getting weaker until it finally disappears.  The smoking gun points at signal/noise, with the signal being the target getting weaker with increased distance while the noise is ground mineralization, basically staying constant.  Eventually the ground wins ==> ferrous response.  No ground (air test) ==> no low tone.

More bothersome to me is Mark's Observation 3 where the Manticore and Equinox didn't even pick up a non-ferrous target in multifrequency when single frequency (which frequency? Mark never said) does respond for both detectors.

[F350Platinum]

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

Where's @Chase Goldman who's detected Culpeper, VA with many detectors?

Heh, we're going there tomorrow 🤔

[midalake]

9 hours ago, Digalicious said:

That's interesting. I haven't used a D2, but I've never seen or experienced a detector that didn't eventually ID a nonferrous target as ferrous, once it reached its detection limit.

Exactly

Both my equinox and D2 will identify a nonferrous target as ferrous. All I hunt is salt with high mineralization and this is an everyday occurrence. 

[Mark Gillespie]

6 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

I've taken the liberty of enumerating three things from Mark's initial post that started this thread.  It seems most of the discussion has centered on Observation 1.  Unfortunately (AFAIK) I haven't seen anyone who typically detects in mineralized ground take part in this discussion.  (Where's @Chase Goldman who's detected Culpeper, VA with many detectors?)  I can tell you this (as always the caveat 2-3 bar out of 6 Fe3O4 meter reading on the Fisher F75):  For in ground test targets, the F75 (13 kHz single frequency) goes from non-ferrous to ferrous as depth increases on high conductive coins (and maybe most/all non-ferrous targets).  BUT, in air tests, as the distance to the target increases, the signal stays high tone (non-ferrous), just getting weaker until it finally disappears.  The smoking gun points at signal/noise, with the signal being the target getting weaker with increased distance while the noise is ground mineralization, basically staying constant.  Eventually the ground wins ==> ferrous response.  No ground (air test) ==> no low tone.

More bothersome to me is Mark's Observation 3 where the Manticore and Equinox didn't even pick up a non-ferrous target in multifrequency when single frequency (which frequency? Mark never said) does respond for both detectors.

All the signal frequencies chosen could detect the target on the Manticore.  Some better than others but all detected the target.  Switching to Multi-frequency and silence.  All possible settings were tried to change the outcome.

We're still in the process to gain both understanding and solution to the issues.

[iron_buzz]

On 2/29/2024 at 9:03 PM, Lodge Scent said:

Mark, that's normal behavior for the D2. Nonferrous at the edge of detection can sound like ferrous. I'm not surprised that when you raised your coil when over a faint deep target that it went from "good to bad".

Yeah, a dime at 8 inches is just on the edge of the detection zone for the soil in my area, at any rate.

[abcoin]

I've noticed the phenomenon that OP describes, though in reverse order. One of my favorite spots lately is a wooded area where signals are generally far between. I'll get what sounds like an iron signal at first while swinging amongst the leaves. Then, after kicking the leaves away, I'll recheck the signal and start to hear the ferrous grunts break and a non-ferrous tone emerge. Nine times out of 10, it's something nonferrous. My ground is moderately mineralized so that could explain why I don't just hear a very faint nonferrous tone.

This has encouraged me to play with some settings -- reactivity, audio response, etc. -- to see if I can make a likely good target sound better.