Chase Goldman

You are correct that induction balance detectors depth capabilities have basically plateaued but it has nothing to do with FCC restrictions or transmit power limitations because even the most powerful PI or Multifrequency detector comes nowhere close to exceeding any FCC power limitations. Depth, at this point, is solely limited by limits of the physical principles under which the induction balance detectors work and the abilities of the digital signal processors to tease out information from the weak induced magnetic signals from the targets. I have a Tarsacci and have used it in the hellish mineralized soil in the fields near Culpeper Virginia. It is indeed deep for a non-PI detector on relic targets and will give you a good idea if your target is ferrous or non-ferrous but that's about it. It's target ID processing is highly unstable in mineralized soil and its limited audio makes it basically unusable other than on a salt beach or if you just want to differentiate ferrous from non-ferrous. Forget about using it in an environment with multiple non-ferrous junk targets like can slaw or pulltabs. While not quite as deep as the Tarsacci in hot soil, the Deus 2 has a much more stable ID and far superior audio and I have had more success with it than the Tarsacci under similar conditions despite the Tarsacci's slight depth advantage. Of course, in Culpeper the Pulse Induction machine is the preferred choice for maximum depth under such soil conditions, but there are plenty of situations where the Deus 2 will outperform a PI (machine gun iron or thick modern trash) simply because the undesirable target field density overwhelms the machine. Anyway, thanks for chiming in. Spend some time perusing what has been posted on the site and you'll find that the experienced folks here, like Jeff McClendon, understand that the machine is not the end-all and be-all when it comes to detecting. Number one is location (if you are on a site with no desirable targets, even Harry Potter's magic wand can't help you). No matter what detector you have, the best thing you can do is learn it inside and out, understand its limitations as well as its strengths and then exploit the strengths and compensate for the limitations. A detector's depth capabilities used to be the centerpiece of a detector's worth. That is no longer the case today. As mentioned previously, induction balance detectors have basically reached the practical limit of their depth capability. Additional, technological advances in signal processing and coils will likely not provide further significant improvement. However, what has improved is signal processing speed and capability and refined and affordable simultaneous multiple frequency transmission schemes which has improved the ability to separate adjacent targets and to more accurately ID non-ferrous keepers amongst the ferrous and non-ferrous junk. Speed and versatility (ability to adjust capabilities on the fly and to be able to select either single or multifrequency as appropriate) of modern detectors give beginners and pros alike more tools in their detecting toolkit and, if utilized properly (see the second bullet above) the potential for better results than with legacy and new detectors lacking this versatility. Put another way, it's not a matter of whether multifrequency is better than single frequency - its being able to dial up either at the push of a button, as needed.

Simplex Ultra: MAP: $329 US. MSRP: $379US/379 Euro Score: MAP: $379 US. MSRP: $449US/449 Euro Double Score: MAP: $425 US. MSRP: $499US/499 Euro Legend Upgraded Stem Armrest/CF lower shaft (Detector only): MAP: $509 US. MSRP: $599US/599 Euro All of the above prices are sans Nokta BT wireless phones.

Yep. You got that right. Any general purpose USB cable with a mini B plug should charge the coil, headphones, or Mi6.

Actually, you’ve got that sort of backwards. Besides being able to charge all D2 accessories (Remote, coils (except the new Xtreme hunter two-box which uses USB C), headphones, and the MI6), the D2 triple head cord is used to only update the D2 remote because it has required multifunction round screw-in barrel connector for the remote. The other two mini USB B connectors on the triple-head charge cable provide charge power only and lack data pin connections and can’t be used for updates to the headphones. In order to do updates to the headphones, you need the single USB mini B data/charge cable that was included in the D2 kit or, if you lost that, you need to get a third-party single USB cable with a mini B connector that has both power and the data pins connected or you can get an XP replacement single data/charge cable from an online shop that carries XP accessories. HTH

Yep. Just wondering how a Mono coil works in an induction balance design, but thanks to Carl, now I know as its not a traditional induction balance design. Now that I do know, and based on the how the GoFind circuit is set up to accommodate the balanced inductor, it makes me scratch my head on why anyone even bothered with the GoFind DD hack. It seems like so much trouble for a detector that was intentionally designed around the balanced inductor. It seems that the effectivity of the Mars coil would have been degraded in this approach to the point that it would just make more sense to get a purpose built detector for similar cost if the goal was improved performance. As far as I'm concerned, its another example of engineering for engineering's sake in the vein of "just because you can, doesn't necessarily mean you should". But as an engineer, I still think its cool they did it. As far as ML is concerned, it is also cool they pursued the GoFind as an actual product vs. just a proof of concept prototype. Even in this simplest of detectors, plenty of innovation from the unique balanced inductor approach, the compact, foldable form factor, and the accompanying phone app, it looks like ML put a few "out there" concepts into the real world to see whether it might catch on.

Thanks Carl, that puts that mystery to bed for me.

That may be part of the reason. I am only running the DD's and a barely audible threshold to listen for breaks and small pertubations, it's definitely not just a reference threshold, but perhaps due to EMI or whatever, I can't run it out of the negative numbers without it blowing my ears off. But I am also not looking for subgram targets, though my setup should be able to accommodate subgram target detection since it was similar to what Steve articulated above.

Would really like to see an X-ray of a Minelab Go Find coil, because externally it looks like a mono coil which is weird for an induction balance detector which uses a CW transmission coil and separate receive coil in either DD or coaxial configurations.

Thanks for that explanation, Jeff. A continuous reference tone at that volume would have made my head explode regardless of ambient conditions, but it obviously did not affect your ability to recover micro targets.

We're you really running Threshold at 14, Jeff? That seems really high. Especially in light of Steve's post above. Even in really quiet conditions, I was dialing in Threshold at around -7 max during my most recent hot dirt Axiom relic hunt.

Sunpow has a Concentric coil vs. the DD on the Voyager...interesting

Seriously, though, nothing in the ML specs says it is IP68 compliant and it appears that only the coil is waterproof, ML should contact Amazon to correct the Amazon website spec listing or they are going to probably get some drowned detector returns.

The question is, will the coil be compatible with the Manticore. I was also hoping for an operating frequency of 5.82 kHz, but 5.83 is fine, I guess. Guess you have to keep your headphone plugged in to keep it IP68 compliant.

Bob, Glad you healed up fast digging buddy. The rain today is going to further help with your digging ability. Those fields were turning into concrete. Congrats on the keyhole escutcheon and IHP. Not a bad “return” at all. The problem with a “light” but strong shovel is that you lose the mass of the shovel distributed along the shaft that actually aids in digging because the force of gravity against that mass helps the blade penetrate and move the dirt better without having to exert as much muscle force. It can also supplement muscle power in leverage. I typically use all steel shovels for field work as a result.

I would suggest watching the British series program "The Detectorists". It was a humorous, but realistic take on metal detecting and what drives people to do it. It incorporated a quirky storyline based on finding a particular legendary treasure and other plot points (competition and tension between rival detecting clubs, interpersonal relationships, romances, and jealousies) but was also very realistic in some key essential aspects of treasure hunting: historical research and the complexities and nuances involved with obtaining/negotiating permission from the landowner to access private land that holds the promise of treasure. Incorporating the detective story type clues associated with doing prospective site research and the give and take aspect of obtaining permissions (e.g., what finds you may have to give to the landowner as compensation for site access) and ensuring that you do not stray from your permitted detecting areas (risking prosecution or personal injury) might provide additional realism and hold the interest of potential game players. FWIW.

I tend to agree, regarding the other tracking apps. But one thing this one does that the others don't is that it automatically records target IDs even for the targets you don't recover, so it makes a good tool for quickly surveying a site and automatically recording target hot spot areas. Unfortunately, GPS accuracy limitations may not be up to the task.

Yeah, I do realize that, that's why I mentioned "affordable" in my post. Nokta has forced the market's hand such that cost is not an overriding concern if you want to have your cake and you want to eat it too. The Legend whose features and performance rival both high end Equinox models and can be obtained for as low as $450, which is an incredible value. The forthcoming Nokta Score models will have both SMF and selectable single frequency capabilities for even less (but with less features and modes than Legend), driving cost down towards the most affordable selectable single frequency machine at the moment, the Minelab Xterra Pro at about $260. The price gap is rapidly shrinking... Anyway, the rationale for why SMF over selectable single frequency (which I think is the gist of your hypothetical) was included in my post. Anyway, the name of the game now as far as detectors are concerned is focused on versatility and value rather than specialized, expensive niche detectors. Keeping the end user, including beginning detectorists and those who want to make a minimal investment without sacrificing capability, from having to make the choice in your hypothetical.

Iron Bias is not a pass/no pass ferrous filter, that's what disc is for. In an overly simplistic view (because all I have are my observations, as ML has failed to explain it in a meaningful way to the end user), Iron Bias takes a target that has both ferrous and non-ferrous attributes and emphasizes the ferrous attributes (TID and audio) depending on how much Iron Bias you apply. Iron Bias requires multifrequency to do its "magic" (so it is not present when in single frequency) and like all these signal processing tricks, it's imperfect and can be fooled into making non-ferrous sound/ID as ferrous if set too high or will not quiet falsing on big iron if set too low. The following thread has some thorough and thoughtful discussion on iron bias. It's Equinox 600/800 based but the fundamentals apply to the 700/900 as well. It's not clear whether ML incorporated the Fe or F2 iron bias filter into the 700/900 or a third variant. I suspect they further refined the F2 filter. Note also that 0 doesn't necessarily mean that no iron bias filtering is being applied (vs. single frequency which definitely does not have an iron bias filter).

Assuming you are referring to Long Range Locators, I can’t recommend a good one because they are all pretty much scams. Read the information below to become more enlightened on these devices…

The profile location information would be helpful, but I understand why people are not keen to share too much personal information in a persistent/static online profile tied to a specific user name where it can be more easily scraped by data miners and bots. So I don't fault KDX for that. So I think it's more about personal privacy than metal detecting location privacy. However, that being the case, I would hope that KDX would realize that the average reader would have no idea he is talking Canadian coinage and would therefore be a little more forthcoming with such relevant information sooner, preferably in the title of the thread, so he could get better responses and attract those who have more experience detecting Canadian or other similar steel clad coinage. Perhaps Clive @cjcor Dave @midalake with his Mexican coin experience can chime in here and help out. As a moderator, I also took the liberty of updating the thread title to explicitly ID Canadian Steel Clad coinage. @KDX, let me know if this change to your thread title is helpful or not.

The answer is “it depends on the situation” (in a nutshell, I am mostly running SMF because of the advantages associated with more stable operation across a variety of soil/sand/salt/water conditions and more stable IDs, but like the option to switch to SF due to EMI conditions or when focused on a narrow target conductivity window). And since fortunately there are at least 10 “mainstream” detector models (some at very affordable price points) that give you both SMF and switchable single frequency (Garrett Apex, Minelab Nox 600, 700, 800, and 900, Minelab Manticore, Nokta Legend, XP Deus 2, and the two latest Quest models), I fortunately don’t have to make that choice and am not forced to ponder this hypothetical. In other words, I no longer give consideration to detectors that don’t have both multiple SMF modes and selectable multiple frequencies The fact that the coil frequency options of these real detectors don’t exactly line up with or encompass the entire range and discrete frequency settings you arbitrarily listed, makes little, if any, difference (i.e., the fact that 7, 18, 50, and 60 kHz are absent on most of these detectors, makes little difference in performance IMO). Maybe someone will give you a more thoughtful answer. I’m inherently lazy.

OK. So are you talking about Canadian Steel Clad coinage? That is a whole different ball game. I have no expertise on how to detect those or how recovery speed might affect detector response for steel clad coinage or what the IDs will look like. It's a real challenge.

Not exactly understanding your question. Iron bias works the same way regardless of whether you are in "All Metal" mode (- though this is more accurately described as "No Discrimination" mode as true "All Metal" mode means that there is no filtering or processing applied and you are getting the raw unprocessed target signal). So operating in All Metal does not change the purpose for having Iron Bias, as Iron Bias changes the way both ferrous and non-ferrous targets are ID'd by the detector whether or not you are in All Metal. Being in All Metal just allows you to hear the targets that ring up as iron. All that Minelab is saying is to be cautious about applying too much IB as you may cause small non-ferrous to sound off as ferrous (which you will hear only in "All Metal") or too little in which case you will get more big ferrous edge falsing and nail head falsing that you will hear regardless of whether or not you are in all metal. Yep, I looked at the wrong column.

Unfortunately, the ground balance reading doesn't tell you anything about how mineralized your soil is. Minelab inexplicably does not include mineralization meters on their detectors to help you determine this. Suggest (re-?)reading the responses to your post when you last brought this up to get a better idea of the difference between ground mineralization which affects Target ID accuracy/depth and ground phase balancing which zero's out the conductivity effects of the ground to minimize spurious ground signals in the ferrous region. To determine how mineralized you ground is, you need to find someone with a detector like a Deus/Deus 2, Simplex or Legend, or Fisher F70/75 which have mineralization meters, to determine if your soil mineralization level is high and how that might be affecting what you are seeing in your test garden.

Hard to draw conclusions without additional details about your setup. How far apart were the coins spaced? Soil mineralized or neutral? Is EMI a factor? Were the coins all high conductors or were there nickels and zincolns too? Specifically, which "few" coins were difficult to ID at recovery 3. What was your sensitivity set at? Maybe you were overloading with sensitvity set too high which is known to cause instability. Etc...