Chase Goldman

I think he wants to be able to use the puck as a visual TID interface. Your best bet is to get a wrist mount like this (about $25) And then get a wired headphone adapter plate for the puck like this (about $20): Then you can plug any mini wired phones into the puck on your wrist and still remain untethered to the stem and coil. Just glance at your wrist as needed to view the target ID. This is the way I started out...in about 2 weeks I was springing for the full Deus with control box. Lol. Deus lite was just too limiting a setup for me. But it is workable as I described. Alternatively, you could get a stem mount (see pic below) for about $25 and plug an APTX LL BT transmitter ($25) into the headphone adapter plate jack and go wireless with say Equinox BT phones. Trond wireless APTX LL BT transciever.

I bet if you ran it 10 separate times turning the machine off then on between every run you will get something that averages out between the iron audio on and off results (IOW no statistically significant difference between the two @ 4/8 or 5/8).

It will work as well as the Ace detectors do today with some added salt beach stability and middle of the road depth, ID, and perhaps below average target separation vs. its higher end competition. Basically, it is right where it should be for it's price class, perhaps just a tad high when you compare it against Vanquish.

Agree, Iron Audio is just an audio tone break/level for all targets that ID below the discrimination setting or below a TID of 35 in zero mode. It’s setting plays no role in the processing of ferrous target signals. It is just an audio volume level filter. Wonder what the Apex apologist crowd will come up with next. SMH. On a side note, it would have been interesting (uninteresting?) to compare the Apex in 20khz vs. the F19 as a true head-to-head SF comparison (although I’m sure the results would have been the same - or possibly worse).

That statement on its own makes absolutely no sense. Iron audio settings should have no impact on performance in zero mode. I applaud you for going ahead and making the video in an objective manner even though you knew yourself it was just a ridiculous claim. SMH.

ML updates the Update Utility along with the firmware so you have to load the update utility that is released with the new software. The utility contains the new firmware along with all the other previous firmware releases to allow you to roll back if you don't like the newest firmware. I am only familiar with the windows version of the updater, but I believe what I have written above applies to both the Windows and Mac versions of the updater. HTH.

Equinox. They are still going to have to make it a compelling enough buy over Equinox if they plan to charge much more than Equinox. One approach might be to introduce Equinox 1000 at $1000 or even at the 800 price point and then drop the Nox 600 prices into the entry level and Nox 800 into the mid-range. It is tough to argue that any of these entry level detectors come close to even the 600 in terms of features performance, and versatility. ML could almost own the whole range from $100 to $1000 detectors with the Vanauish and Equinox lines including a $900 to $1000 "high end" Equinox-CTX hybrid variant that incorporates the best of both the Multi IQ and FBS2 worlds. Gonna need some accesdory coils, though ML. Get on it if you are not going to enable 3rd party coil manufacturers to play along. Bad move.

My disappointment is not so much in the tepid MF TID performance at depth as the fact that Garrett seems either unwilling or unable to put emphasis on recovery speed performance as an important detector attribute. I suspect that when Garrett gets beyond their 1st generation of MF, they will have refined their signal processing to the point where they can start approaching where ML was 2 generations ago (now on their fourth generation of MF and 8 to 9 SMF machine designs under their belt). But if Garrett continues to ignore recovery speed capability and tone customizations, they are really going to fall behind the curve versus their competition.

Agree. The real Achilles heel with Vanquish though is the fixed GB. You can somewhat work around that by notching out -8 and -9 in the mode you want to use but if you want to use different modes to interrogate targets in zero discrimination, forget it because you only have one program slot and if you shift out of a mode it forgets your custom settings. Fix those 3 things and it takes the Vanquish to a whole new level in terms of versatility across different mineralization levels....but that's way off topic. Got my Deus in 2015 and the control box, coil, and WS4's are still going strong though the original LF coil just sits around and blinks now as I almost exclusively use the HF coil.

It would basically sound the same. Iron volume works whether or not you are running all metal, it is just that the iron discrimination breakpoint changes at the point between the low tone and the iron tone, if you are running disc. In all metal (more accurately zero disc mode) or in disc mode you can turn iron volume all the way off. Steve breaks it down pretty well here:

I started about ten years back with no clue on what I was doing armed with nothing but a bounty hunter tracker and a beach full of pull tabs and bottle caps.

Still have my Tek Delta. I really learned how to detect with that machine and keep it around for sentimental reasons.

Yeah no offense, just ribbing you, hence the smiley. Yeah, I got the large white 15 inch coil as part of an upgrade package from FT to install DST into my T2. It is overly heavy and an under performer. A total boat anchor IMO. You are better off going with a Detech Ultimate 13" or similar. The Detech is a great coil and got one for the F75, I kept. I included the large white coil in the package deal when I sold my T2 a couple years back. HTH.

Well, I didn't know you knew that because you didn't mention it in your post and you asked folks to chime in on differences - maybe I am overreacting Anyway, I guess my point was not so much about the interchangeability, but the fact your accessory coil selection will be limited because the T2 is intentionally not wired up to accept concentric coils unlike your F75. May not be an issue if you don't plan to get more coils, as you say but later on you talked about noticing additional coils out there. The concentric really makes the F75 a bottlecap killer. And while truly somewhat different than the F75, the T2's DNA was sufficiently close enough to the F75's in performance that the additional limitation on conetrics made it not worth it to me to have both detectors in stable. It is a great detector in its own right and has great ergonomics like the F75, I just felt the F75 brought more versatility to the table. HTH.

This thread also discusses and shows video of field performance and it is telling a pretty consistent story.

Excellent information and thanks for following up with that. Disappointing but not surprising, either. It's an affordable ACE machine with selectable multifrequency and SMF for beach work, nothing more, nothing less. That's something and will be a boon to the Garrett fans and most importantly to those who would see the propular Ace series as their first detector in the hobby.

I should have phrased that better - this is Garrett's first generation entry into MF. Vanquish happened after ML had designed and fielded no less than 7 or 8 simultaneous multifrequency machines and no less than 4 generations of SMF (BBS, FBS, FBS2, and MultiIQ). I was not expecting much from Garrett's first SMF other than perhaps salt beach stability. I was delighted that they put selectable multi-frequency in an ACE level machine. That has not been done yet. Whether it is $100 or $250, the fact is that you do have to open that wallet more just to get that feature in any other machine and that CAN be deal breaker probably to most folks that might consider the Apex Ace or other detectors in that category. I agree with you that Garrett seems to ignore some essential capabilities and features like that awful iron tone, lack of tone break and tone adjustments, and perhaps most importantly, recovery speed and even a crude mode method of adjusting that (like exists on the Vanquish). Probably is the reason they put a 6x11 stock coil on Apex. Hopefully they can address that in a future detector design iteration. It is a serviceable, affordable multiple selectable single frequency machine that happens to have an MF mode that might be useful on the beach. No more, no less. Appropriately priced in the Ace/Vanquish/Simplex category. Apex is not something I will seek out, probably. Vanquish does not float my boat either because it is useless in my soil with it's fixed GB and inability to save multiple setups other than the one slot you are allocated which is necessary to be able to switch modes for target interrogation. Simplex is feature rich but also suffers from some drawbacks and, of course, is held back by being a single frequency machine. I see each of these machines excelling in situations where the other two may fail or at least be held back by their flaws. None of them touch the Equinox 600 for all around versatility, value, and performance. And that makes sense because the 600 costs at least $150 - $250 more than any of these other machines. That price delta IS important to many folks.

Agree, SImon. I kind of thought they were underselling this as an ACE level model, but it definitely makes sense now that we are seeing it in action in unbiased form. For a multiple selectable single frequency machine, it really is a great value. SIngle frequency performance IS important. The fact that ML is still paying attention to it by releasing that 4 khz mode for Equinox sends an important message in that regard and that is why I thought ML should have considered throwing in at least one single frequency mode choice on Vanquish (say 10 khz) for added versatility.

I said my goodbyes to my friend, Tim a few weeks ago and regret that we never had the chance to meet personally to detect. He was just a kind, generous, and knowledgeable friend and detectorist willing to help anyone who asked for it here on this forum. Amazed by his knowledge of artifacts and regret that he was not be able to complete his dream of finding that long lost treasure in Tennessee. Safe home my friend and good luck to his grandson Caleb and the other forum member friends of his who will be carrying on with the expedition in his memory. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and grief they are experiencing at this time. My sincerest condolences.

I think people are sleeping on the fact that this machine is also the cheapest available multiple selectable single frequency machine on the market and would like to know more about its single frequency performance (across the board) on the separation and depth tests. That may be its true strength, not MF. No way Garrett's first generation simultaneous multi-frequency (SMF) implementation is going to compete against ML's fourth generation of simultaneous multi-frequency (Multi IQ). It just so happens to have a serviceable SMF mode that probably is best relegated to salt beach usage.

My take: Yes in multi it does not appear to hold a candle to the Nox. But frankly, entry level MF is NOT about depth. I think this less sophisticated MF should be relegated to beach work for stability. This is an ACE level machine. I think folks are missing a significant feature first for Garrett here because of the over-fascination with simultaneous muilti-frequency (SMF). This is also Garrett's first multiple selectable single frequency machine as well. For the type of hunting demonstrated in the video (turf-based coin shooting), I suspect that a detectorist would have better luck hunting in 5 or even 10 khz. I do think the coil is holding back the Apex somewhat on depth so it probably still would not compete with Equinox even on the SF front, but I suspect the differences would be less stark. It should be noted that there is NOT a less expensive multiple selectable single frequency machine on the market today and that is probably its true strength as a terrestrial detector with a the stability bonus on wet salt beach that SMF and SMF Salt bring to the table. I think people should be viewing this as a value/budget selectable multiple single frequency machine, first and foremost, and the SMF aspect as a secondary bonus for salt beach stability. Neither of those features are present in the AT series so it brings a lot to the table at its price point. Garrett really does also need to work on refining that gawd awful iron tone and bringing some sophistication to enable tone options and tone break adjustments and seriously look at providing some ability to vary and trade recovery speed off with depth either directly or buried in the tone/mode options.

Also, T2 and F75 accessory coils are not interchangeable and the T2 cannot electrically accommodate any concentric coils (DD only). For this reason I got rid of my T2 and held on to my F75.

If you want the remote to pick up the coil first when you turn it on, make sure the right coil serial number is selected in the coil preferences under the Options menu. You need to manually add each coil serial number into the Coil menu. HTH.

Great post, Jeff. I like the SW tweaks Nokta has done with Simplex,too. I find AM mode to be pretty quirky in my test garden, it performs worse than Park 2 (the old Park 1) on mid and high conductors at depth which is just weird. I like the Relic, Park 1, and Beach modes best. The flexible lower shaft was something I really noticed when the detector got warm sitting in the garage or my car. It is unacceptably flexible under those conditions. Would like to get my hands on one of the accessory coils to see what it can do.

You said below that you intended to see how the Apex would do in your "evil red dirt" in single frequency...so that does sound like you were going at least try Apex in Culpeper in single because of MF's lack of performance in Culpeper. Sorry I was not clear. The point of my previous question was also based on your statement above regarding the Apex. I was wondering what you thought of the the Equinox single frequency modes in Culpeper? I would be surprised you were having a problem with small non-ferrous if you were using SF like you intend to do with the Apex. Again you have no ability to adjust recovery speed with Apex versus Equinox and less control of tones and breakpoints - so I am interested to know whether the Apex will do better than Equinox under those conditions in single frequency (which would be surprising). Exactly! Thanks for taking my questions. Hopefully we will pass each other out in those north central VA fields sometime. It is still so full of history. I'll probably be swinging a PI just like you if we do, though. I just whip the VLFs out when my shoulder can't take the weight of the GPX any longer. Happy Hunting.