Chase Goldman

We don’t really know. They are similar but even with identical user settings there still seem to be differences between the two.

Welcome to 5 years ago...LOL

Strange, bottlecaps usually give me a distinctive flutey multi-tone (in 50 tones) similar to a multi-denominational coin spill (which is easily differentiated by using pinpoint) and a nice iron grunt off the edge (especially with high iron bias). Were you running multi F (I guess yes since you were referencing an IB setting)? Also, I take it this was fresh water since you were running Park 1 and not Beach in the water. I frankly would not not expect bottlecap response in multi F to change at all with this update.

As we further hijack this thread , one more wish for Vanquish, wish the individual mode settings (e.g., discrimination pattern) simply remained in permanent memory like the way mode settings are saved on Equinox. The single custom slot is insufficient for dealing with the discrimination pattern you have to use on each mode to cancel out ground noise due to the fixed GB setting.

It is apparent ML did not design this thing for the abuse it would be subjected to for the hard core water hunter. Especially for salt water. It does great in the rain, wet salt sand, for some light wading in standing water or light surf, hopefully won't die if you drop it in the drink. But day in and day out water hunting the coil ears can't take the load and water intrusion is always going to be a concern. Always have a backup.

Multifrequency brings a lot to the table, but I am glad that ML saw fit to give us many single frequency options on the Equinox. Wish they had provided one single frequency mode, at least, to the higher end Vanquish and adjustable ground balance. Would have closed the features gap to the Equinox 600 but at a great price to performance ratio.

I've always thought the Garrett AT series and now Apex iron volume implementation was odd. The ferrous tone break should be determined by the discrimination setting and vice versa. That way you don't get the odd situation where the part of the "fixed" ferrous region above the discrimination setting is a the low tone with iron vol off and then switches to low medium with iron volume on. Not a biggie but just weird that a non-discriminated region's tone ID changes depending on whether iron volume is off or on.

Dave - with all the beach hunting you do in the surf, does your control head/battery compartment look as corroded as okara's?

The is an informed guess, Dan, because of course, Minelab is not talking. In the simplest explanation (the way I look at it), the iron bias filter takes advantage of the fact that the ferrous and non-ferrous signal components of a ferrous target respond differently to varying frequencies. That is why ferrous targets false differently depending on what operating frequency you are using (and why certain operating frequencies enhance high and low conductor target signals differently). So the iron bias filter relies on the fact that you are hitting the ferrous target with multiple frequencies and it is interpreting the results of the target response to make an informed guess as to whether a detected non-ferrous signal component is simply part of a ferrous target (i.e., falsing) because of its response and the response of the accompanying ferrous signal at different the frequencies. The iron bias filter strength will tend make the non-ferrous (falsing) component sound more like a ferrous signal at higher settings. Of course it can be fooled by a non-ferrous target in close proximity to a ferrous target, resulting in complete masking of the non-ferrous target if set too high (no free lunch). But bottom line, it needs a multifrequency transmit signal to be able to do its thing, so it is not operational in single frequency. Multifrequency also enhances compensation for a less than ideal ground balance, cancelling out salt or alkali soil ground components, better normalizes target response independent of target size and composition, and enhances target ID at depth (notice the TID up averaging that occurs in 4 khz single). HTH

Correct, Chuck. Thanks. I went back into my post and highlighted the fact that you can edit your "local" settings after saving the user profile in case people missed that in my original writeup.

There would be a difference even if 4 khz was part of the Multi spectrum, because in single frequency all of the detector's transmit energy in put into the 4 khz but in multi, the transmit energy must be spread across multiple frequencies. Bottom line you cannot conclude anything with certainty because of this physical constraint. BTW - It is commonly believed that 5 khz is also part of the Multi IQ spectrum, but if you ran the same comparisons, you would likely get similar results (i.e., you would see a marked difference between 5 khz and Park 1 response on a silver coin). Furthermore, trying to reconcile whether or not the single frequencies of the Equinox comprise the fundamental constituents of the Multi IQ profiles is really difficult to determine without any confirmation from Minelab. It is best to really consider that they are simply two different things. The Single Frequency settings and Multi IQ are separate and there has been no evidence that they all or any of them comprise the individual fundamental constituents of any of the Multi IQ profiles with one or two exceptions. It is best to just think of the Multi IQ profiles as a unique frequency spectrum with different prominences around certain unspecified frequencies in the low, mid, and high ranges depending on the target objective for which that spectrum is intended. Trying to ascertain the individual frequency components is really futile and even if we were able to determine that with any certainty, then that would only be a portion of the Multi IQ story. The real secret sauce in not what fundamental frequencies comprise the various profiles but the waveforms used (e.g., square wave pulse width modulation, triangular waves, etc), whether the fundamental frequencies are simultaneously transmitted, and ultimately most important, the signal processing algorithms that are used to make target ID determinations.

Yes, Dan, that is the way to do it. You can search with Park 1 and interrogate the target with a saved 4 khz version of Park 1. And yes each frequency or Multi IQ "variation" needs to be noise cancelled and ground balanced individually for the site conditions. The reason being the Multi IQ frequency profile will react differently to EMI and the ground conditions than 4 khz (or 5 khz, etc) and Park 1 Multi will react differently than Park 2 Multi, Field 1 Multi, etc. I just tried this in my test garden got a Ground Balance reading of 15 in Park 1 Multi and 23 in 4 khz. The User Profile slot merely copies everything you have set up presently in Detect mode (including the noise cancel setting and GB setting) into the slot and all underlying user adjustable settings (disc pattern , tone customization, recovery speed, and iron bias (if applicable - see below). You can then edit the user profile "local settings" (disc pattern, tones, etc.) to your liking and it will retain the settings. If you want to change the detect mode basis for the user profile then you have to switch back to detect mode, select the mode you want to save into the user profile slot and overwrite the old mode setting in the slot. Note also that when you go to single frequency in any of the Park/Field modes (Beach is multi only and Gold is its own animal), you are basically removing the Multi IQ DNA that forms most of the "personality" of each mode. All that is left are the "local" user settings (disc pattern, tone customizations, and recovery speed). Note also, in single frequency, iron bias is no longer present at all as a setting. This essentially means that regardless of which Park or Field mode you use to go to single frequency, the target response will be the same, save for the disc, tone customizations, and recovery speed settings (and of course noise cancel/ground balance). I have taken advantage of the Custom User Profile slot for target interrogation since Day 1. What I usually like to do is pick my optimal "search mode" for the target objective and site conditions. Usually, Field 2 - I like to relic hunt in hot soil conditions and then use a complimentary mode to interrogate an iffy signal (Say Field 2 Multi search and Park 1 Multi or Gold Mode in the Custom User Profile slot). I like this clean new single frequency mode, so may make greater use of it as an interrogation mode. Especially useful for a high conductive target hunter such as yourself. HTH

I wish they had swapped Frequency Select and the User Profile button. Though I might be using the 4 khz SF more frequently.

I remember my first gold find like it was tomorrow. Seriously though, great saves. Finding your first gold is a great feeling and now you are definitely hooked, if you weren't before. Yes, gold sounds as sweet as it looks. Oh, and you will be rewarded with some great detecting karma by attempting to reunite it with the owner, whether you locate them or not. Congrats.

Can you appropriately balance for salinity for a wet salt beach AND adequately cancel small aluminum simultaneously?

I have a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!

Ok. My bad. I’m a poor communicator apparently because I tried say that in my response but apparently failed and the lead in didn’t help. BTW that was also referring to GB’s post who I couldn’t exactly tell whether or not he was agreeing with me or just bringing up a separate related point (it was the latter) until I read through it a couple times. Hopefully, fixed now.

Jeff is correct to call me out on my imprecise language (should have said “not AS subject to reacting to ground mineralization). Pinpoint does react to ground mineralization (though in my experience not in the same way as it responds to targets) so my suggestion previously to use pinpoint to differentiate between target response and ground feedback is a YMMV thing depending on how much mineralization you are dealing with. Should work for most “out of balance” situations, though. To recap, I get a lot of reports that people can’t find a clean spot to ground balance. And what I have found is that folks are often reacting to ground feedback noise (with disc off) vs. a true carpet of targets situation. In that case switching to pinpoint can aid in finding that “clear patch” of ground to pump the coil. The non-motion aspect and desensitizing action of the pinpoint feature helps trace and shrink the target footprint (unless that target footprint is indeed large) and minimize mineralization feedback to manageable points so you can adequately find a clean enough spot to pump the coil. Pinpoint reacting to mineralization is typically not as repeatable as a true target under the coil. I personally don’t sweat it much and have never found a place where I couldn’t find a clear enough patch to pump without going into pinpoint (in fact, I am not sure if it really matters unless something large is under your coil). In severe mineralization conditions, sure, you might be chasing ghosts, either way but in my experience, pinpoint clears the picture up under the coil vs. constant -8/-9 grunts in detect mode. After awhile as you gain experience, you quickly recognize the -8/-9 grunts are merely ground feedback and not targets and just pump away without going through this hoop. This concept is hard to get across in words without tripping over details because of oversimplified explanations. Just trying to help people differentiate between legit targets and ground noise Pinpoint has been the best way for me to demonstrate this in the field. Yeah, it’s not perfect or foolproof, but what is when it comes to detecting?

BTW -9 is typically associated with ground noise. Make sure your machine is properly ground balanced. (It should be back at the default zero GB point after the reset).

Actually, neither 4 khz nor 5 khz are true whole number harmonics of 60 hz (but they are true harmonics of 50 hz) so that was probably inaccurate on my part. The point is something that interferes with 5 khz is also likely to interfere (but to a lesser extent) with 10 khz but is unlikely going to significantly interfere with 4 khz. Similarly, something interfering with 4 khz is probably not going to interfere as much with 5 khz. So it gives you that fighting chance to find a clean low operating frequency channel including whatever the noise cancel algorithm does for you. The lower operating frequencies are closer to the 60hz (or 50 hz) power line frequency and since the harmonic amplitude drops off the further you are away from the base frequency, these lower operating frequencies are probably more susceptible to power line noise. But as was written in the paper you linked to, there are a myriad of other sources of far field EMI that can affect the detectors, so the key is being able to "shift" from the interfered frequency (or its harmonics) and that is essentially what 4 khz now brings to the table for Equinox (and perhaps some additional secret sauce signal processing compared to the "fives" single frequency settings).

Regarding your inability to find a clear spot to GB - what may be happening (especially if you are searching for a "clean" spot using no discrimination (i.e., horseshoe mode)) is the detector is reacting to mineralization ground feedback as opposed to actual ground targets. Try this next time you are having trouble finding "clean" ground to GB - use the pinpoint mode find a clear patch. Pinpoint mode is a non-motion mode and is also not subject to reacting to ground mineralization. If pinpoint mode does not sound off then there is no target under your coil to interfere with getting a sat GB. Again, GB is not so much about depth as it is about reducing ground feedback noise that can interfere with getting a clear target signal especially if that signal is a lower conductor or deep target that can appear to be ferrous. Sat GB tends to clear up those iffy signals. On the other hand, especially in multifrequency, the Equinox is very forgiving of a less than perfect ground balance, so don't sweat it too much. But if you are experiencing ground noise or you are at a site that is subject to ground phase variations, periodically check your GB or use tracking mode. Unless you are looking for micro jewelry or small natural gold, tracking will not typicially null out a keeper target. Don't use tracking unless you have to though and be sure to do a GB first before you put it in tracking to get tracking "in the ballpark". If there is not enough of a change in mineralization to trigger a rebalance, then tracking can do more harm than good, so just ground balance once and be done with it. Similarly, if your ground phase is taking "wild" swings, your best bet might be to just periodically do an auto ground balance because tracking reacts rather slowly (in order to not over compensate and cause target nulling during target interrogation) and may not be keeping up with severe changes in ground phase. The numbers don't necessarily directly correlate to the level of mineralization in the ground. There are several soil properties that can affect the ground phase reading including mineralization (attributed mostly to magnetite and to a lesser extent, maghemite) and alkalai salt content. But other consituents such as moisture content can also affect the ground balance point. The only way to tell if mineralization is driving the ground balance point is to have a separate mineralization meter which the Equinox lacks (although it does measure mineralization because that is what it uses to trigger its tracking ground balance algorithm, it just doesn't display mineralization level to the user). Also, beware, that each mode responds to the ground differently due to the differing Multi IQ frequency profiles. On the same patch of ground you may get a 30 with Park 1 and 55 with Park 2. So the numbers are just giving you a visual reference for how close the detector is to being balanced and the relative variation from the default neutral ground reference point of "0". This is also the reason why you need to balance each mode separately if you intend to use more than one mode at the site (for example searching in Park 1 and interrogating the target in Field 2 or Gold mode to see how the target ID and audio ID tone respond). Generally, at the beach, keeping the GB at the "0" default is fine, even in wet salt sand. But if you are in the surf with varying levels of salinity or the wet sand is showing signs of variable black sand mineralization (or the mineralization overload warning shows on the display), shifting to tracking GB is a best practice as recommended by the manual. Hope all this doesn't make you over think it even more. In practice, just get a sat ground balance (use pinpoint to find a target-free patch) and swing away. Periodically check the detector response using the horseshoe mode (no discrimination) and if you are getting a lot of ground feedback in form of ferrous grunts and -9, -8 target ID numbers, then re-balance the detector. HTH.

Cell phones typically interfere with the control module electronics which is largely near field interference and independent of the operating frequency of the detector coil. But the coil can act as a resonant receive antenna for longer field interference such as from power lines and depending on the operating frequency you use can be more or less pronounced, if present. Having a frequency that is not a multiple of 5 khz like all the other SF's on Equinox, just gives an additional mitigation against interference from harmonic multiples of 50 and 60 hz power lines. To answer Mitchel's question more directly, it is unlikely that ML selected 4 khz to reduce EMI from cell phones but not because of the difference in operating frequency, it is because of the difference in field strength and the part of the detector that phones interfere with (the control electronics and microprocessor, which ARE both operating in the MHz to GHz range of the phones). 4 khz just happens to be less likely to line up as a harmonic of 50 or 60 khz electrical systems vs. 5 khz and gives you a fighting chance of finding a quiet, "low" frequency channel for deep silver slaying. Perhaps making Raphis love his new detecting friend, the Equinox, even more! BTW - thanks for providing the link to the EMI article. Good summary.

Hey, that's understandable. The terminology is not entirely clear and standard across the board. For example, manual GB makes sense to me. But I think of "auto" as auto/tracking (interchangeable terms) and what they call "auto" for the Equinox, I am used to calling ground grab. I keep a PDF copy of the manual for each of the detectors I regularly use on my phone for reference in case I forget how an obscure setting should be adjusted in the field. HH

That is what most people mean when they are talking manual GB. Put it in GB, pump and use +/- to null ground noise. Note that you can also drive GB into negative numbers as well. No, that is not right. For most mild neutral soil conditions, especially on sand beaches the Equinox can compensate well at the zero GB default setting even with ground phase deviations up to 10 or 20 points from 0 when in Multi (probably less forgiving when in single frequency). If the soil ground phase deviates significantly from zero, then it is best to match the ground phase. This has more to do with minimizing ground noise so you can hear faint target signals. It really has no direct impact on depth performance. Not sure what you are asking exactly. You can set the initial balance point by doing either a manual or auto GB and then shift the detector into tracking GB mode. This has to be done separately for each mode you use at a given site because the various modes may balance differently on the same patch of ground. Your questions seem to imply you are unfamiliar with the comprehensive description in the user guide of how, why, and when you should use the various GB procedures (manual, auto, and tracking). Might want to read through pp. 41 - 42 of the user manual as a refresher. HTH

It is a Western Pacific Railway (W.P.Ry.) button from a conductor or railroad employee. Neat find. Western Pacific Railway was founded in 1903 and was incorporated into the Union Pacific Railroad system in 1982 and ceased to exist as a separate independent railroad.