Chase Goldman

I should have phrased that better - this is Garrett's first generation entry into MF. Vanquish happened after ML had designed and fielded no less than 7 or 8 simultaneous multifrequency machines and no less than 4 generations of SMF (BBS, FBS, FBS2, and MultiIQ). I was not expecting much from Garrett's first SMF other than perhaps salt beach stability. I was delighted that they put selectable multi-frequency in an ACE level machine. That has not been done yet. Whether it is $100 or $250, the fact is that you do have to open that wallet more just to get that feature in any other machine and that CAN be deal breaker probably to most folks that might consider the Apex Ace or other detectors in that category. I agree with you that Garrett seems to ignore some essential capabilities and features like that awful iron tone, lack of tone break and tone adjustments, and perhaps most importantly, recovery speed and even a crude mode method of adjusting that (like exists on the Vanquish). Probably is the reason they put a 6x11 stock coil on Apex. Hopefully they can address that in a future detector design iteration. It is a serviceable, affordable multiple selectable single frequency machine that happens to have an MF mode that might be useful on the beach. No more, no less. Appropriately priced in the Ace/Vanquish/Simplex category. Apex is not something I will seek out, probably. Vanquish does not float my boat either because it is useless in my soil with it's fixed GB and inability to save multiple setups other than the one slot you are allocated which is necessary to be able to switch modes for target interrogation. Simplex is feature rich but also suffers from some drawbacks and, of course, is held back by being a single frequency machine. I see each of these machines excelling in situations where the other two may fail or at least be held back by their flaws. None of them touch the Equinox 600 for all around versatility, value, and performance. And that makes sense because the 600 costs at least $150 - $250 more than any of these other machines. That price delta IS important to many folks.

Agree, SImon. I kind of thought they were underselling this as an ACE level model, but it definitely makes sense now that we are seeing it in action in unbiased form. For a multiple selectable single frequency machine, it really is a great value. SIngle frequency performance IS important. The fact that ML is still paying attention to it by releasing that 4 khz mode for Equinox sends an important message in that regard and that is why I thought ML should have considered throwing in at least one single frequency mode choice on Vanquish (say 10 khz) for added versatility.

I said my goodbyes to my friend, Tim a few weeks ago and regret that we never had the chance to meet personally to detect. He was just a kind, generous, and knowledgeable friend and detectorist willing to help anyone who asked for it here on this forum. Amazed by his knowledge of artifacts and regret that he was not be able to complete his dream of finding that long lost treasure in Tennessee. Safe home my friend and good luck to his grandson Caleb and the other forum member friends of his who will be carrying on with the expedition in his memory. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and grief they are experiencing at this time. My sincerest condolences.

I think people are sleeping on the fact that this machine is also the cheapest available multiple selectable single frequency machine on the market and would like to know more about its single frequency performance (across the board) on the separation and depth tests. That may be its true strength, not MF. No way Garrett's first generation simultaneous multi-frequency (SMF) implementation is going to compete against ML's fourth generation of simultaneous multi-frequency (Multi IQ). It just so happens to have a serviceable SMF mode that probably is best relegated to salt beach usage.

My take: Yes in multi it does not appear to hold a candle to the Nox. But frankly, entry level MF is NOT about depth. I think this less sophisticated MF should be relegated to beach work for stability. This is an ACE level machine. I think folks are missing a significant feature first for Garrett here because of the over-fascination with simultaneous muilti-frequency (SMF). This is also Garrett's first multiple selectable single frequency machine as well. For the type of hunting demonstrated in the video (turf-based coin shooting), I suspect that a detectorist would have better luck hunting in 5 or even 10 khz. I do think the coil is holding back the Apex somewhat on depth so it probably still would not compete with Equinox even on the SF front, but I suspect the differences would be less stark. It should be noted that there is NOT a less expensive multiple selectable single frequency machine on the market today and that is probably its true strength as a terrestrial detector with a the stability bonus on wet salt beach that SMF and SMF Salt bring to the table. I think people should be viewing this as a value/budget selectable multiple single frequency machine, first and foremost, and the SMF aspect as a secondary bonus for salt beach stability. Neither of those features are present in the AT series so it brings a lot to the table at its price point. Garrett really does also need to work on refining that gawd awful iron tone and bringing some sophistication to enable tone options and tone break adjustments and seriously look at providing some ability to vary and trade recovery speed off with depth either directly or buried in the tone/mode options.

Also, T2 and F75 accessory coils are not interchangeable and the T2 cannot electrically accommodate any concentric coils (DD only). For this reason I got rid of my T2 and held on to my F75.

If you want the remote to pick up the coil first when you turn it on, make sure the right coil serial number is selected in the coil preferences under the Options menu. You need to manually add each coil serial number into the Coil menu. HTH.

Great post, Jeff. I like the SW tweaks Nokta has done with Simplex,too. I find AM mode to be pretty quirky in my test garden, it performs worse than Park 2 (the old Park 1) on mid and high conductors at depth which is just weird. I like the Relic, Park 1, and Beach modes best. The flexible lower shaft was something I really noticed when the detector got warm sitting in the garage or my car. It is unacceptably flexible under those conditions. Would like to get my hands on one of the accessory coils to see what it can do.

You said below that you intended to see how the Apex would do in your "evil red dirt" in single frequency...so that does sound like you were going at least try Apex in Culpeper in single because of MF's lack of performance in Culpeper. Sorry I was not clear. The point of my previous question was also based on your statement above regarding the Apex. I was wondering what you thought of the the Equinox single frequency modes in Culpeper? I would be surprised you were having a problem with small non-ferrous if you were using SF like you intend to do with the Apex. Again you have no ability to adjust recovery speed with Apex versus Equinox and less control of tones and breakpoints - so I am interested to know whether the Apex will do better than Equinox under those conditions in single frequency (which would be surprising). Exactly! Thanks for taking my questions. Hopefully we will pass each other out in those north central VA fields sometime. It is still so full of history. I'll probably be swinging a PI just like you if we do, though. I just whip the VLFs out when my shoulder can't take the weight of the GPX any longer. Happy Hunting.

The flexibility that you are provided in setting up the 600 and 800 as compared to the Apex you have now (adjustable recovery speed, 2 adjustable iron falsing filters, adjustable ferrous and non-ferrous tone breaks, and multiple MF profiles vs. just 2 on the Apex - none of which are available on Apex), plus the single frequency capabilities of the Equinox, similar to what is provided on the Apex mean that with proper setup you are not "forced" to dig small non-ferrous with Equinox and likely have more versatility than Apex. I dig in Culpeper too, have had success with the Equinox there (more success with the Deus, though) so I am scratching my head on this statement, George. I know you are also making comparisons to the Tarsacci, of which I have no first hand experience, but that is not my point. My point is that you now own an Apex that is very similar but has less setup versatility than the Equinox, yet your issues with the Equinox could have easily been addressed with the appropriate setup. How long did you have the Equinox? Thanks.

Also a gold belt area and produced back in the day just NE of Culpeper.

I pointed this out somewhere in another thread but they use the exact same terminology in their AT Pro/Gold/Max spec tables borrowed from a Steve H. post here and we know about the fair-to-middling recovery speed performance of those rigs...so yeah, "Fast compared to what?" is exactly right.

If you need "on site" assistance with the Deus setup, I can make a "house call" and meet you at the site you were detecting. Seriously, though great finds and great video. Definitely check out the difference between the two signal processing filters and disc vs. no disc. I think Deep and Fast both have a place in custom program slots. Having a choice between the deeper and but sparky version 2 (Deep) processing and the more subdued version 4/5 processing is good and I am glad XP added it to the version 4 and 5 releases. Like I said, I like to run with disc and iron volume vs. no disc like Gary, but either approach obviously works as your video shows. Another minor disadvantage to Gary's approach is that if you do want to run multi-tones, his no disc setup eliminates a tone bin because he dedicates the lower two bins to iron whereas with disc (with iron volume), only the lowest bin is dedicated to iron. Happy hunting.

Great video and nice finds.' Love Gary and his advice and videos, in general, but not a big fan of Gary's general resistance to using discrimination. Essentially the only difference between Gary's Sonar program and Deus Fast is the use of the Deep signal processing filters and a higher reactivity which makes sense in thick iron and of course cranking the audio frequency of the high bin. Once you make the decision to go to two tones, I feel you might as well go to pitch. You can emulate the two tone ferrous effect in pitch by using discrimination and turning iron volume to on. Why do I like to use disc - two reasons: first it helps to alleviate ferrous down averaging of nearby non-ferrous targets in bed-o-nails situations and second, having some disc dialed in ensures the horseshoe display works as intended (I know that Sonar uses Deep's XY display, but that is not a display I prefer). A better comparison would be to set up Deus Fast and Deep identifically in terms of tone and reactivity to see how the Deep signal processing filter (Version 2 Deus) without disc differs from the Fast signal processing filter (version 5 Deus) with disc (2 tone with the high frequency high tone bin). That way you get a true apples to apples comparison of how no-disc and disc behave and how the two signal processing algorithms (Deep and Fast) compare.

Agree, tracking is not something that really makes a difference under most situations, and in rare situation could be detrimental. I would only use it in fields with wide variations in ground phase or in the surf if salinity levels are constantly changing to quiet down the detector. In reality, unless you are running with no disc so that you can hear the ground feedback, you wouldn't necessarily be any more the wiser. (Unfortunately you quoted the old version of my post before I cleared up my discussion to note the difference between automatic and tracking ground balance - which also mentioned ground grab).

Perhaps makes up for the other night when that guy jumped your patch. I think things even out over time...you win some you lose some. You won tonight.

All's good here too, Chuck, just was trying to explain why I only mentioned those models based your quoting me and comment. Agree, 705 is another good budget all arounder that does it too, just have never used one. Problem, is when trying to explore this feature based on published specs it is difficult because metal detector manufacturers use terminology that that can interchangeably mean automatic ground balance (user initiated ground balance automatically set through pumping or trigger-based ground grab) and tracking ground balance (GB setting automatically updated based on detected changes in ground phase or mineralization) depending on the intent so things get pretty confusing unless you really have familiarity with the detector itself or can view the user guide.

No I meant I guess I meant what I said. Those are the ones that I am familiar with that readily come to mind and are still made - I don't have a detector features database in my head, so before I was going to do more research for him to seek out other (apparently non-Whites) models, I wanted to know the parameters of his needs and means to narrow down the search field.

The Equinox 600 I recommended, will meet your budget and needs. Multifrequency Beach mode will stabilize the detector on salt beaches and the adjustable recovery speed will enable you to trade separation in trash vs. depth in low trash situations for parks and fields. Should not have to use tracking GB under most ground conditions, but the feature is there if you really need it. Good luck.

Congrats on Christmas in August. Always exciting to get a new toy.

The popular and versatile mid-range Equinox 600 and 800 models from Minelab both have the capability. XP Deus does too but it is pretty expensive. Those are the only ones that readily come to mind. Perhaps if you could narrow down the type of detecting you want to do and your acceptable price range you could save us all a lot of time on doing your research for you.

Nice. Stable in salt and tuned to jewelry. What a great combo at a great price. Deus balances into the salt range too but I can't get it to run stable at 18khz or above in wet salt sand.

Surprised its running quiet on wet sand at 19 khz

We do have it, I don't recommend it either at this time for the OP's situation. I think having a controller (Orx or Deus) is essential for full featured hunting, including pinpoint feature and ability to do updates. Orx a better value than Deus lite IMO.

I think Jeff summed it up well. Especially regarding whether Orx and Deus will merge...not going to happen. The coil and DNA are the same, but the headphone and controller hardware and UI are different and cannot be merged solely through a software update. Pretty much agree with him on his other points too save for a few of my own personal takes: If you are looking to just back up your 800, going with a Vanquish 540 or 600 is a good option. However, if you are looking to compliment your 800, I would definitely consider a non-multi IQ detector to provide detector design diversity. My first choice, would be Deus...if price were no object. I think Deus is currently at an unsupportable price point given the competition. If you can get a used Deus package closer to an Orx price point, that would be a great deal. Or an Orx supplemented with a pair of WS4 phones used and on the cheap (i.e., $125 or less) as George recommended that might be a great package (though I doubt you are going t o be able to pick up some WS4's for the $90 he snagged them at - going used price is probably north of $200). Right now Orx is just shy a few key features that prevents me from wholesale recommending it. I can use it as a backup to my Deus in a pinch, but being limited to 3 tones without pitch or full tones options is too much of a features compromise for me vs. the Deus. Supplementing the Orx with WS4 phones is ok, but if you spend too much on the WS4 phones, you might as well just look for an affordable used full on Deus package. So, what's left to look at - well the Nokta/Mak machines look nice but they are not as fast as Jeff implies in all tone modes. Only certain tone setups afford the lightning fast recovery that woukd rival Deus /Orx or Equinox. But they are solid machines and provide the machine diversity I think is key. I think having multiple selectable single frequency is essential, especially in the absence of simultaneous multifrequency. So Simplex wouldn't make the cut based on that though I do think it is an incredible deal now with some great accessory coil options and features that rival the capabilites of the aging but classic F75 Mike Hillis consistently recommends (I still have my F75 as well as my Whites Classic MXT, both powerhouse detectors in their day still with a few tricks up their sleeves but hard to recommend today with Simplex, Kruzer, Anfibio, Equinox, and Vanquish on the street). I cannot yet recommend the Garrett Apex until some unbiased real world usage reports start getting posted. The big question mark is the machine's recovery speed, otherwise, on paper, it does look compelling. The best recommendation I can make right now is to sit tight - let's see how Apex turns out. Let's see what Nokta and possibly XP have up their sleeve in terms of simultaneous multifrequency or othe refreshes to their product line coming around the corner. Even ML may come up with something compelling and more formidable than Equinox next year. In the mean time you have a pretty good, versatile detector that shoukd be able to find the target if it is there under just about any site condition or situation. I would get through the fall product announcements and then decide. HTH