mh9162013

I agree that this probably happens. But from the stories I've read, people are getting water intrusion after a light dunking or brief water incursion of only a few feet. I just watched a Youtube video from Gigmaster and he took some close up pics showing cracks in his control pod. I dont' recall how old his machine was, and I think he said the cracks were around the charging socket. He said he wondered if he was getting leaks through these cracks.

I don't see it in the manual either. The only mention of the overall waterproofness says nothing about duration underwater.

Great find and cool pics!

Just to add to what Chase already mentioned, I think another reason is the overall design of the Deus II and how, in my opinion, it doesn't look "dive rated" waterproof. There's a reason Ikelite camera housings look alien and often cost more than the cameras (and lenses!) they house. Real waterproofing is hard to reliably accomplish and requires a special level of engineering and design. Just think about how different the Sovereigns and Exacaliburs look from each other...

I agree, this is a great dialog. I prepared a longer response to your comment, but for some reason I lost it. But the biggest point I wanted to make is that I don't regualrly water hunt, but I want a machine that would allow me to, as hunting a freshwater late or river/stream is something I'd like to try. Also, I know the AT Max CAN hunt saltwater beaches, although I know it's not ideal and will have limited depth capabilities. I also don't mind hunting in heavy rains...like thick downpours that make it necessary to have a windshield wiper on the front of the detector. I have faith the AT Max can handle this. I also occassionally clean my metal detectors and I like trusting the waterpoofing enough to know I can take the control box/pod and washing it in a sink. The AT Max is a bit nose heavy with the stock coil, I'll admit. But I would remedy this with the 5x8 coil assuming I kept the AT Max and not the Equinox. Ideally, I'd have the Equinox's capabilities in the AT Max's form factor. I know, I'm probably the only person in the world that wishes for something like this...

Better waterproofing S-Shaft design Looks better...looks A LOT better The 5x8 coil (makes the detector look perfectly proportional and from what everyone says, makes it very ergonomic) Aftermarket coil selection (especially The Arrow by Detech) Simpler settings (this is a double-edged sword, of course, as fewer settings mean it's harder to "dial in" your machine for different conditions) Garrett's legendary customer service. I hear that Minelab's can be good too, but there are more negative reports about Minelab on than Garrett.

I have no doubt that Equinox, in most situations, will outperform my AT Max. The only question is by how much. But the AT Max has certain advantages over the Equinox, in my opinion. While these advantages may not matter to most people, they matter to me. And no, just "using the Equinox" won't save time. Running tests offers a more time-efficient (and still enjoyable) way to compare the Equinox to the AT max under my conditions, using my method of hunting and taking my preferences into consideration. And logistically, it's easier for me to test metal detectors than actually go hunting with them. Finally, running these tests is teaching me a lot about the Equinox. This doesn't mean results from actual hunts don't matter. But adding a series of tests to my occassional outings to go hunt (which isn't as often as I'd like) is the most efficient way for me to make a decision between the two machines.

I agree, but I think this is what's going to happen: I run my battery of tests and the only settings I mess with in the Equinox will be changing the modes (Park 1, Park 2, Field 1 and Field 2). As for the AT Max, I'll probably just mess with the modes (Zero, All Metal and Custom) and maybe the sensitivity. I have a strong feeling that the Equinox will still edge out the AT Max. Depending on how much better the Equinox does, I'll start doing some comparisons after adjusting for recovery speed, both types of Iron Bias, etc. In other words, I'll make sure I understand the Equinox more to better make adjustments with it and take full(er) advatnage of its capabilities. I just made my test garden. It's just a dime at 4-5 inches down in my highly mineralized soil. This dime is also 1 inch away from a brand new nail. I originally buried these items around 6-7 inches down, but neither the AT Max nor the Equinox could detect the dime. And only on the rare occassion, could either make ANY sort of sound on the nail (or a combination of the two targets). But after burying both items just 4-5 inches down, the AT Max could detect both targets and separate them, but gave readings b/w 11 and 99 on the dime. As for the Equinox, in both Park and Field modes, it could reliably detect the nail and dime. But when hitting the dime, the VDIs ranged from around 18 and 25. So as many of you have already said, the AT Max can often detect what the Equinox can detect, but at "depth," its VDIs are no where near as consistent or accurate as the Equinox. So in just 2 rudimentary tests today, the AT Max is already 0-2 against the Equinox.

I didn't think about the frequency weighting differences, but those could play a role, for sure. I didn't really notice a difference between Field 1 and 2, though.

I don't know for sure, but I figure the Iron Bias settings might have something to do with it; I know the recovery speeds are the same between those modes. The dime was about 2-3 inches below the nail, but still very close to it (in regards to the horizontal, not vertical, plane).

Yeah, I just learned that a few minutes ago. I did a quick and dirty test with my version of Monte's Nail Board and when comparing Park 1 in the Equinox to the AT Max, the AT Max won. The Equinox was silent on the dime and the AT Max gave a scratchy tone, but definitely consistent (although the VDIs were all over the place). But when I placed the Equinox into Field 1 or 2, it easily smoked the AT Max. So yeah, I understand that there's no way I'll be able to "fully" compare the Equinox to the AT Max But I'll work on finding some sort of "gotta-start-somewhere-cut-off" to compare these machines. I feel like an employer looking through hundreds of CVs while trying to figure out how to sort through them all. And I'm deciding if I should use the GPA or test scores as my primary qualification and if so, what those cut offs should be. I know it's arbitrary, but I need to use something to create a manageable way to compare the CVs.

Out of curiosity, what coils could I use on the Equinox 600 and AT Max so they have the same coil footprints? I'm not aware of any coils that would offer this. But regardless, it makes little difference to me, as I'm comparing the two using setups that I would actually use. I'm not doing these tests to decide which machine is better. I'm doing these tests to decide which machine works better for me given my soil, hunting style and current equipment/set up. For instance, the AT Max with the 4.5 inch puck coil might hold its own compared to the Equinox 600 using the stock coil in regards to target separation abilities. But I would never use the puck coil on the AT Max as my primary set up. So I need to compare these machines using equipment that I would actually use. I suppose this means I need to do this test with the AT Max and the 5x8 coil. I don't have that coil, but it would become my primary coil for the AT Max should I decide to keep the AT Max. However, if I decide to sell the AT Max, I'll be lucky if I get back 60 cents on the dollar when I sell the 5x8 with my AT Max (or sell them separately). Also, even if the AT Max with the 5x8 performs better than the Equinox 600 in terms of target masking and target separation, if I keep the Equinox 600, I'll probably be getting the 6 inch coil eventually. Then there's the almost guaranteed fact that the Equinox will give more accurate VDIs at depth than the AT Max will. The only question is how big of a difference will it be in my soil. Thank you for the insight...and I hope I find a clear winner, too. 🙂

Yes, they'll both be using their stock coils (8.5x11 and 11)

Isn't it possible that the Deus II outperforms the Equinox in terms of SMF operation? I know that's a tall order, but it's a reasonable possibility, isn't it? In that case, Minelab could update the Equinox 800 (and maybe 600, too) to improve its capabilities.

Two reasons. One, I don't like having two "primary" detectors. Two, I could use the cash for accessories, like a 5x8 coil if keeping the AT Max or a 6" coil (or Steve's CF shaft, pod cover, coil stiffener, etc.) if keeping the Equinox 600

In addition to my modified Monte Nail Board, I will do 2 other tests. One, I will bury 1 clad dime about 6 inches or so in my clay soil...maybe next to a nail. Then I'll see how well all my detectors do with that. Two, I will get some bamboo skewers, put flags with different numbers or colors to tell them apart, then head to one of my parks and use them to mark potential targets with my Equinox 600 in Park 1 mode. These will be "definitely dig" or "yeah, I'd probably dig it" signals. Then, I will go back with my Garrett AT Max and scan each target and see if I'd still dig those targets using that machine. Then I'll dig the signals and see which machine was right...or "most" right. I'll probably do this test twice, one time with the Equinox 600 being used first and one time with the AT Max being used first. No, this isn't a perfect battery of tests, but I think it'll be enough to decide which metal detector gets listed for sale: the AT Max or the Equinox 600.

That assumes they have the Equinox 1000 or w/e ready to go. But if it's a while off (maybe a year or so), they could release a software update to keep at least some current Equinox users from "jumping ship."

I'm currently working on this very issue. I intend to use Monte's Nail Board, but modify it so the board is a few inches thick so I can place the penny or dime on the same plane as the nails or on a lower plane. I intend to use this to compare the Equinox 600 to the Garrett AT Max and maybe my Vanquish 340 and Fisher F2. If I get around to building and testing it, I'll let you know how it works out.

I guess if you want to go deep, SMF can help. But in my experience, when hunting for coins in mild(er) soil for targets less than 4 inches deep, my AT Max is pretty much the same as my Vanquish 540 was.

If I was in the market for a new pinpointer, I would strongly consider this one. But it doesn't seem like it has additional range/sensitivity (or improved ratcheting) compared to the TRX, F-Pulse or Mi-4/6. So I like the other bells and whistles, but they're not enoguh to get me to switch from my F-Pulse...not based on the information we have on it so far, at least. Then there's the fact it has a built-in battery...yech. I really like its ability to turn off the lost alarm, though. The iron discrimination doesn't mean much to me. It'd be nice to have, but I wouldn't pay extra money for it. At least the two different sounds are distinct though, unlike the Pro-Find 35.

That's a good eye, phrunt. Not sure if that fully explains everything, but it makes sense if it does!

Hmmm, it looks like that plug is related to water use. The one on the left says "1" on it, then the graphic shows an umbrella, it seems. The one on the right is red and presumably, has a "2" on it, then the graphic appears to be a SCUBA diver. Definitely relates to how the controller will be used and where, although I'm not sure exatly what the differences are. Because they both have slits in them, I'm guessing it's where you insert a tool to unscrew the grey or red round "plugs."

It's funny. I clicked on that link and it said the Deus II was in stock. But half a second later, it changed to "More on the way!"

The most I'd be willing to pay is $700. That doesn't mean I think the Deus II should sell for that, though. It's just that I'm cheap and love finding great deals.

As for the underwater wireless capabilities, I have a few thoughts. First, it's possible that the wireless ability only works underwater if the water is fresh. I don't know what kind of bandwidth the XPs need to transmit data from a coil to the controller, but I know that hobby R/C transmitters for planes, cars, etc. work very well in fresh water, even when transmitting on multiple channels at once. This is what we used when building and operating R/C subs. Second, the underwater wireless ability could have certain limitations, like requiring a much slower swing speed. Three, like abenson alluded to, there's some new wireless technology that's been around for a while (a la military operations or private industrial applications), but is finally being applied in the consumer realm.