mh9162013

Anything between $1500 and $2,000 would not surprise me.

Ha! And to think I said it might be a few decades away. And the waterproofing is good to 20 meters!

I just watched a handful of video reviews on Youtube and this looks like a promising pinpointer. I like how it has the OLED and green/red light indicators, can used headphones (but is no longer waterproof or even dust resistant) and most importantly, has the ability to turn off the lost alarm. As for the discriminating ability, that means nothing to me. As for its range and ratcheting abilities, it seems in line with the Fisher F-Pulse.

I hear ya. By reading b/w the lines, I think N/M's SMF machine will perform about the same as an Equinox...maybe not quite as good, but close. But like others have mentioned, it'll have a few doodads that the Equinoxes don't have...along with a better build quality. I think XP's Deus II will perform better than the Equinox in at least a few respects, including improved performance in heavy iron.

There's so much room for improvement, it's not even funny. How about a detector that can tell the difference between gold alloy and aluminum? How about a machine that goes deeper and is as accurate with its VDIs in the ground as it is in air tests? How about a GPX or similar machine that weighs less than 3 pounds and runs off of just 4 AA batteries, yet gives hundreds of hours of run time? How about an Equinox or Vanquish that doesn't get fooled by medium sized pieces of rusted iron? How about a machine that has the ability to go deep and cut through mineralization like PI, but has the discriminating ability of an Equinox and weighs less than 2 pounds? How about wireless technology that can go through water? Ok, so some of the above developments are probably decades away, but there's PLENTY of opportunities for machines to get better. Until someone sells X-ray glasses that lets you see through dirt like it's pure water, there will always be a place for a new and better machine. "You musn't be afraid to dream a little bigger darling."

That's a nicely cut plug... Oh, and the coin's not bad either.😄

Isn't the Minelab Excalibur II a waterproof version of one of their land-based machines? Maybe it was the Sovereign?

My Sampson T-handle shovel has always been a great tool for me. I got it about 2 or 3 years ago, and it's held up well to moderate abuse. This includes using it as a prybar to pop some smaller roots or using the shovel's tip to sever smaller-sized roots.

Absolutely, especially the Garrett AT Pro and AT Max! It's not that either are bad machines, but for what Garrett wants to sell them for...they turn into bad machines. I spent $290 for my AT Max and I like it. We'll see how it stands up to an Equinox 600, but for $290, it's a great machine! But if I had to pay $590 or $690 for it, I'd be bashing the AT Max like it's nobody'a business. So I think Garrett made a mistake keeping their pricing scheme such that the AT Max was a "flagship" detector. I don't think it would have been that bad for Garrett to have their Ace 400 or 300 as their new "entry level" model and significantly lower the price of the AT Max. I understand premium pricing is a thing, but there's only so far that can go, in my opinion, especially when it relies in maintaining marketing efforts that, from what I've heard and seen on Youtube, might not be holding up as well anymore.

I never thought of N/M as being a victim of the Simplex's success, but I suppose that's possible. Or, maybe it was a calculated move, with the Simplex serving as a "loss leader." While I may not be as "hardcore" as some metal detectorists, I think I'm more into the hobby than a casual user. And the Simplex definitely increased the brand awareness of N/M for me.

Perhaps it's because the Deus, despite it's age, is still considered a high-end machine. When N/M is mentioned on message boards, it's likely most often with respect to the Simplex. The Simplex's greatest strength isn't its technology, but the value of what you get for each unit of currency you spend. So no, you're not the only one who assumes the Deus II will outperform the N/M SMF offering.

Could mineralization in the soil have an effect? In many of the parks I hunt at where I see this issue, I'm often digging clad coins straight out of mineralized clay.

I love coinshooting, and I'm often in my local parks or private permissions searching for clad and silver coins. But I noticed that when digging up shallow clad coins (3 inches or less), my AT Max with the stock coil would say the coin is 6 inches down. Sometimes, a surface coin would read at being 4 inches deep. I didn't think this was that big of a deal, b/c I could always pull out my F-Pulse and see if the assumed coin target was truly shallow or not. Also, the incorrect depth reading wasn't keeping me from digging a desired target. Tonight, I read: and http://www.fisherlab.com/hobby/davejohnson/SearchcoilfieldshapeApril2012.pdf Both of these mentioned anomolies or issues with DD coils and shallow targets. Is what I'm experiencing with my shallow coins and AT Max one of these anomolies? Or is there something else going on?

Yeah, that certainly wasn't the most neutral comparison video ever. Still an informative video.

If it's priced around $1,000, that would be pretty sweet (although I expect it to be closer to $1,500). That's still too high for me, but it's close enough to the Equinox 800 to impose some serious competition...assuming it performs well, of course. But based on what people say about the Deus, I expect the Deus II to be competitive with other SMF machines.

Assuming it doesn't tip over!

Apparently, they plan to make their first deliveries in 2022. But I hear ya on the potential for vaporware...

Now that's what I call a teaser!

Definitely a lot of competing interests in these types of situations. But like you recognize mn90403, it's not easy to find lost items. I get the "but I'm the rightful owner, so I deserve to get it back" interest. But if treasure hunters can't at least keep a % of what they find, they'll be motivated to either stop hunting or do it in secret so they don't need to report anything. In either situation, te rightful owner gets nothing. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have the option of paying a finders fee to get my lost item returned than have no option of ever getting it back. Even with a law that allows finders to keep a certain % of what they find, some finders will still try to hide their finds so they keep 100% of it. However, they will be in violation of the law and have to constantly worry about what happens if they get caught. Sure, many unscrupulous people can live like that, but I think a lot of people would be motivated to follow the law if that means sleeping better at night. Kind of a tangent, but I think this is why organized crime isn't what is used to be. There are so many ways to "game the system" in a legal manner, why would a "wise guy" break the law to earn $1,000 when they can abide by the law and earn $950? I'm no expert in organized crime, but there's definitely a price to pay by breaking the law, even if you never get caught.

That's good to know about the F44. Thanks again for your help.

Thanks for your advice about the N/M models. I haven't done much research on them, but from the videos I've seen online, their sounds don't sit well with me. As for the T2/F70/F75 models, I strongly considered them as they seemed to have great recovery speed and target separation. But they aren't waterproof or even weather proof. After having to end a few hunts due to rain with my Vanquish and detecting once or twice in a heavy downpour with my AT Max, I don't want to use a detector as my primary machine unless it's at least weatherproof. I guess a Fisher F44 is an option, but I don't think they're worth the money. Although maybe I'll find a great deal on one on Facebook Marketplace... I live in western Kentucky, so there's a lot of farmland. But when it comes to yards and parks, there's always the clay. The only question is how much less-mineralized soil is on top of the clay. In many parks that I hunt, there is no soil on top of the clay. In the others, there's plenty of milder soil, but it's almost always fill dirt with a ton of trash in it. I think right now, I'm going to work on a making Monte's Nail Board and run some tests on all my machines. If I can bring myself to spend the money, I'll also get a 5x8 coil for the AT Max and an Equinox 600 and test those, too. Thanks for your insight, Jeff, much appreciated.

Sounds like your "issue" with the F-Pulse is different than mine as I'm always able to avoid the slight beeps by turning my F-Pulse on with the tip touching the soil. The Garrett Carrot also has this issue with my clay, although only when on max sensitivity. I almost always hunt with my F-Pulse in medium sensitivity. Yes, it is odd. I remember taking my Vanquish (540 with the V12 coil, back then) in my backyard after a recent rain and literally every few yards, I was getting a quarter VDI (low 30s and upper 20s). I dug about 5 holes and every time, there was nothing by soggy clay. And the most frustrating thing was that these ghost signals were sharp and distinct, indistinguishable from a coin signal. I agree, 100%. And this is the primary reason I sold my 540 (but still have the 340) and got the AT Max. So my AT Max with ground balancing is able to see targets in or around this clay better than my Vanquish can. It's probably not as good as the Equinox, but it's good enough for me (maybe ignorance is bliss). But this current concern about the AT Max's difficulty seeing through trash is not good enough for me. You may be right. I have no idea what kind of high mineralization I'm experiencing, but w/e it is, it's high enough to create significant problems with my Vanquish 540 such that I sold it and effectively traded it in for my AT Max.

I agree that my F-Pulse falsing is a bit odd. You're right, it could be EMI or something other than the mineralization, but I think it's the soil. I say that because the F-Pulse will be silent until the tip of the pinpointer gets within an inch or so of the ground. Then it gives the "slight" beep of a potential target that's barely within range. But when I retune it (or reboot it) with the tip touching the ground, this problem goes away. As for my soil profile, you're on point. Depending on where I hunt, the clay layer is either exposed to the surface (many parks I hunt at are like this) or it's covered by 1-4 inches of dark, mild soil filled with earthworms. Unfortunately, I've found plenty of coins (all clad) within the clay. But these were in areas where the clay was exposed to the air or there was 2 inches or less of soil before you hit the clay. I run my Vanquish (340) with the V8 coil, but I haven't noticed that big of an improvement over the stock Garrett AT Max coil in the limited times I've hunted with it in the same trashy areas where I first used my AT Max. But then again, I have a feeling that no matter what coil size you use, if the ground is so trashy that swinging a coil in zero discrimination mode sounds like machine gun fire, you're gonna struggle with the trash. I'd say about 1/3 to 1/2 of the places I normally hunt are this trashy.

I know it has high mineralization because: 1. The clay layer will make my Garrett Carrot and F-Pulse false (unless I touch the tip of either on the soil when turning them on). 2. The clay layer, when wet, will ring up as a quarter or dime on the Vanquish. 3. My Vanquish is basically blind to anything located in the clay layer. 4. My Vanquish, when pressing the horseshoe button, will read in the negative numbers (more than -1 or -2) no matter what part of the ground I'm swinging my coil over. 5. My AT Max's GB reading is usually in the 80s and sometimes low 90s. If you ready my post history, it's pretty clear I have highly mineralized soil.

Good point on the other SMFs machines. However, XP's offering is likely going to cost my soul to buy. N/M's offering will probably be affordable, but it'll probably has some growing pains I'd like to avoid. But even if my predictions are correct, there may be a slight influx of used Equinox 600s and/or 800s on the resale market, so perhaps it's worth waiting, whether to buy a used Equinox or new N/M... As for the Apex, I've heard it struggles in mineralized soil, so that's a no-go for me. It also has a built-in battery. But if I'm able to find a used one for very cheap, I'll consider it. The cheapest I ever saw for a used Apex was $250 and that was still too rich for my blood. Right now I'm leaning towards buying a used 5x8 AT coil and running my battery of tests on all my machines and their various coils (the Fisher F2 has a 4 inch sniper coil, for example). I can run these tests while I wait for an opportunity to test an Equinox on the nail board (perhaps someone from my local MD group will let me borrow a machine. But I don't know if it's worth getting COVID to do that...)