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Great news, it settles a lot of debates 🙂 Thanks.

So you agree with the guy in the video? As his thoughts seemed to be similar sensitivity between the bigger 11" coil and the 12x7" except a bit of a louder hit on the 11", and the NF ran quieter. That's a bit like the 10x5" too, same result. Hopefully the little Sadie maintains the quieter running when it comes out, it should be great in EMI too being so small.

Proofs right there, we did need another Single frequency detector, at least it has multiple frequency choices, a pure single frequency detector it's more debatable if we need that. Great work on the gold rings, must have paid for itself by now with it's good value for money pricing.

Well with the 12x7" on the market now a bit of activity by users, I've decided not to buy this size instead waiting for the Sadie. This video is what I was expecting from a bundle wound 12x7" vs the semi spiral 11", louder response on the 11" and I think more depth on the small 0.07 by the looks of it. The NF was slightly smoother running but you expect that from bundle wound coils along with smaller size to pick up less EMI. That's assuming it is bundle wound, nobody knows as for some strange reason the advertising of coils for the 6000 no longer includes winding types. We know Coiltek as Trevor said but NF has not said, and Minelab kept it quiet too with only strick and his X-rays showing it up, so maybe if strick buys one at some point we'll find out, performance characteristics is indicating bundle wound with similar traits to the Coilteks.

My guess is they're not lowering sensitivity with noise cancels on any of these SMF VLF detectors, I am sure they'll be using the old tried and true frequency shift method which for a SMF should be an easy task. I'm sure Minelab added 4kHz single frequency to the Nox as 5kHz was a bad choice for EMI in many locations. I can use 4kHz fine, 5kHz not so much. 5 and 10kHz seem to be my nasty EMI frequencies. 4, 15, 20 and 40 are fantastic. Yet in SMF modes I can use them all and get near maximum sensitivity after a noise cancel, usually 23-24 out of 25. The XP Deus has been really able to help me narrow down bad frequencies with it's fine adjustments. If they are lowering sensitivity I sure can't notice it, I can find tiny specs on nuggets and deep coins with no noticeable difference in performance doing any number of noise cancels even in relatively high EMI areas. I often detect for nuggets under high voltage powerlines and rely heavily on noise cancels on both PI's and VLF's and can't see any performance difference before or after a noise cancel. in fact often the performance improves after a noise cancel as less EMI for me = more depth or better tiny target sensitivity. The GPZ appears very different, it has channels and just scans between them for the cleanest, and I honestly believe the GPZ noise cancel works very well, it's slow, but good. Of course they can't use this method on a VLF being so different. Note how they want it held up off the ground horizontal, and you are advised to stay still while doing it.

Looks like this is a no-go. Nothing out of Nokta since Jan 2022 on the project, maybe they were spooked by the Axiom release or maybe they're just not seeing a viable market for another gold PI to take on the well established leader. Maybe (Fingers crossed) they're just tight lipped until it's ready. A real shame as I could see Nokta having the potential to really dramatically change the way the gold detector market is like they have done with the VLF's with great success. My hopes are not as high as they once were. I still believe if Nokta did make a PI they would have great success with it if they follow their existing methodology, great value for money high quality well performing product. Fingers crossed! If any market needs competition it's the high end gold machines more so than by comparison the very cheap VLF detectors, and realistically gold prospectors seldom use VLF's, and now PI's have become so sensitive the case for even owning a VLF is diminishing rapidly so there is an entire segment of the market Nokta currently doesn't cater for.

This seems to be a better link to the story that can be read outside of the US https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fdnyuz.com%2F2023%2F04%2F22%2Feureka-after-californias-heavy-rains-gold-seekers-are-giddy%2F Sounds like a good time to hunt the creeks.

Yes, to the detector EMI is just another target, it can't tell the difference, if it could the EMI probem would be resolved already 🙂 you'll also often notice holding the detector in the air makes EMI worse, especially with Pulse induction and the GPZ detectors that are far more prone to EMI than VLF's.

I'm terribly jealous of your big snow dumps, hopefully we get record snow dumps here over the coming winter too. Every winter has been getting worse lately so it'd be nice to get a good snow year. I can imagine it's going to turn a lot of flogged ground into good ground again once the floods wash layers away.

I don't know if you can get these where you are however they're so much stronger than the stock covers https://www.minersden.com.au/nugget-finder-heavy-duty-gpx-6000-11-skid-plate

I watched a TV show on Antartica meteorites once, it's the easiest place to find them, dark colours really stand out on white and it's not soft snow, it's often rock hard ice. If I encountered one I'd likely call it another stupid hotrock and kick it away, I doubt I'd recognise one. We've had a couple of them in NZ already this year caught on CCTV cameras with the bright flash and object flying across the sky. I've only seen two in my lifetime, one quite big one in Brisbane, Australia at about 3am after getting off a plane, we were driving back from the airport to the mother in laws house, no cars at all on the road, most properties with lights out, the place was asleep and a massive flash that I thought a speed camera got me, then we see the object flying in the sky but it's angle looked like it was going to hit the ground pretty close, it wasn't going across the sky more coming downwards.. The other I was just sitting in my Spa at night time again in Brisbane and there was a much smaller flash and an object flying across the sky on a downwards trajectory. Nothing at all like the previous one I mentioned though. I'd love to find one, I doubt I ever will. I think EMI mitigation is the final frontier for metal detectors, many in the know have commented depth levels have been maxed out for years, target ID stability was maxed out with the CTX and now we are heading backwards to less stable to improve other aspects of detector performance I guess, tiny gold performance peaked with the GB2 back when I was a school kid. EMI seems one area where improvements could be made, and in a way have to be made as EMI gets worse every year for almost every detectorist. Frequency shifting to me seems the best solution for VLF's, and now with most modern detectors being multi frequency they have coils more suitable for moving frequencies. They should be able to establish during a "EMI noise scan" procedure which frequencies in their pre-programmed modes are being affected by EMI and shft off them slightly until the noise clears while leaving the quiet frequencies alone. Older detectors like the T2 where I do my frequency shift in a previous video on this thread perfectly demonstrate how well frequency shifts work, even tiny ones like the T2 has under 1kHz can make a huge difference. I don't think we should get used to these lightning fast 3-5 second noise cancels though, good things take time and the most effective detectors at the moment for noise cancels take time, the GPX 4500 seems like it takes about a minute if not more to go through its 254 channels while you're holding your heavy GPX coil up in the air. The GPZ 7000 although slightly quicker still feels like about 30 seconds. Both these detectors recommend you hold your coil up above the ground. I personally have found noise cancels most effective holding coils above the ground in maximum sensitivity to get the most EMI into the detector, then after it thinks its done as good as it can with the noise cancel I move my sensitivity to the desired level.

Could it be the self generated EMI hindering performance? They may have sounded about the same but doesn't mean they are. I always felt my GPX 6000 did better after it's EMI mod fix. It really makes you wonder though, some people like Woodys GPX 4500/5000 mods, others think they don't do much at all if anything. JW has a GPX 4500 with woody mods and he seemed to like it over a stock one from memory. I just can't understand how smart people that are capable of making a GPZ 7000 could make such a simple mistake that a minor shielding change alters performance so much so I have my doubts about the mod so far without more information. The 6000 was different, it was a part that for some worked fine, others not, so inconsistency in components and all those testing it perhaps had good ones and it's when hundreds get out into the public's hands the dodgy ones showed their ugly faces. Minelab should have done all they could to get their hands on a noisy one being returned under warranty and troubleshooting the cause though, it shouldn't have taken a year or more to work it out other than they didn't want to and were hoping the problem would just go away. Maybe they just thought it was a bad run of components that would sort itself out with no change to anything without even working out what is the cause as a new batch comes through with the problem solved and those with the bad ones will think it's normal, pretend the problem doesn't exist and it will go away. Maybe they're just always leaving some fuel in the tank for the next model, I can see it now.... GPX 8000, 3" more depth on a test nugget (20 cent coin in this case) over the GPZ 7000. 🙂

Anyway, as has been noted with the Deus 2 Silver slayer program I do a similar thing on my Ace 300i, it's 10kHz can be a troublesome frequency for EMI in some spots and as all I want to find are silver coins I just notch out everything below the last couple of notches where the silver coins reside, it's been a successful approach and makes a detector that otherwise wouldn't find these coins by lowering sensitivity be able to find them. It has a frequency shift option but the shift isn't large enough to move itself off the EMI frequency. It's default coin mode removes a lot of the notches that the EMI falls into by default, but by just keeping the last two notches it virtually eliminates all EMI falsing and I don't feel performance is hindered, I still pull 10+ inch silver coins and our NZ $1 and $2 coins so I can buy lunch or dinner on the way home from the hunt with coins I found 🙂

The Carrot suits targets in sides of holes as the tip sensitivity is off to the side of the tip, something to keep in mind if searching for very small targets. I keep trying other pinpointers and always end up going back to the Carrot as my favourite. The amount of times I've dropped mine on concrete and it's still going strong is crazy. A solid reliable dependable pleasure to use pinpointer. Welcome to the forum by the way.

Thanks Jeff, as you know the video was filmed to show the Vanquish was operating at a higher gain more stable than the Nox in that particular EMI environment and I was wondering at the time if it was due to it's elliptical coils. The video clearly shows the noise cancel at the point I started the video working as the EMI is crazy with ID numbers going wild, the noise cancel completes and that stops, no more false ID numbers, just slight EMI blips, I then move on testing other modes to try find one as stable as the Vanquish. It was filmed 3 years ago or something and the intended purpose was not to suit Digalicious's argument that noise cancel does not work or I would have focused more on proving it does work in the video, but a side effect of that video was it shows for a short time that noise cancel did indeed stop the Target ID falsing. If I wanted to prove it does work I could go and film it now, but I know it does so there is little point, I'm not wasting my time doing that video for someone that is intent on believing it doesn't' work. Noise cancel works fantastic on detectors like the GPZ and even older 4500 too. The Manticore noise cancel appears to work very well.

Easy-peasy, I took the liberty of starting the video right at a spot showing noise cancel on the Nox working. It's an old video I did some years ago showing the Vanquish working better in high EMI than the Nox, so you could go from the start if you wanted also, it's only a short video. Noise cancel is also highly effective on the older GPX series detectors and the GPZ and I can easily be demonstrated working on them. I still think frequency shift on older single frequency detectors like my T2 works best.

Some USB cables are charge only and only have 2 wires, they don't have the -D and +D data wires just the VCC and ground. Try another cable.

I think competition was the reason behind the releases more so than shareholders. The competitors have them spooked.

Your theory is a sound one, I have a location that normal doesn't run well on the GPZ, you have to have good coil control, take it slow and put up with a noise and false signals however, you still get the depth and sensitivity benefits on normal. I have found nuggets because I forced myself to run in normal in a productive area, when I switch to difficult they do not exist. I had an expert tell me it's the wrong thing to do and I should be in difficult when I put a video up of a nugget find and the detectors behaviour in the soil but I had a local guy (JW) that does it all the time tell me it's the right thing to do in this situation and it turns out the local guy was right as its a successful approach. Yes it is noisy and can be annoying but you still gain depth doing it. I believe and from what I've seen there isn't all that much difference in performance between normal/difficult on the 6000, still obviously better in normal just not as dramatic as the GPZ. A smoother running coil like the 17x13" should help with that too you would expect. Good luck with your mission, sounds like an exciting one.

All good, I'm disappointed that thread even exists, I think Minelab detectors are absolutely brilliant, yet the business model they have seems so amateur, they need a massive shake up, someone to come in and take control and turn the place around, am i wrong? their share price certainly agrees. They're absolutely lucky competition has been lacking when it comes to technology until lately as if they really had fierce competition with performance over the past few years I think they'd really struggle. The future will be interesting as competition is heating up and the gold detector market is a fast burning candle that only lasts so long.

True that, both the AT Max and Legend are excellent quality detectors. No fears about quality with either of them.

Discussed at the time here

The Legend is like a few detectors in one, it gives you 5, 10, 15, 20 and 40khz, so that's a range of detectors right there, it also gives you multi frequency. Different frequencies provide benefits on different targets and also better depths on certain targets, 40khz is the sweet spot for small gold for example. Then it also runs in a multi frequency mode to give you a better balance of performance from the frequency range. The at Max is stuck at 13.6kHz. Don't let the new price of the AT Series fool you, they're quite expensive for what you get in today's market. Nokta is made in Turkey with lower production costs I would assume and they aim to provide customers with a lot of bang for their buck, it's shaken up the market extensively over the past few years with their dramatically low pricing compared to competitors.

Yes, Vanquish relies on it's multi frequency tech for ground balance and has no manual ground balance or tracking, in most cases it's good, some people in high minerals struggle but works very well in salt. AT Max has ground balance however it's ground balance is limited by being single frequency. Multi frequency detectors handle varied ground conditions and salt water a lot better which is one of the reasons the Vanquish works well in salt and the AT Max even though it has ground balance does not work as well. The Legend has ground balance and multi frequency.

Yup, Legend hands down. Far better performance than the AT Max regardless of coils, the Pro-Find 20 is terrible, any pinpointer do the job of it, and I'm sure you've got a bag somewhere at home to use if you need a bag 🙂 The Legend is basically a cheap Equinox 800 with better build quality and the Equinox is the best selling detector there is, why? Because it's that good and suits your needs perfectly. The Legend has proven itself already to be at least equal to the Equinox.