Deus 2 Vs Nokta/Makro Legend

[Guest calabash digger]

5 hours ago, mn90403 said:

I haven't read all of this thread or most of the others.  My question is ... do I detect in areas where all of this really makes any difference?

I use an 800 on a tide beach with a 15 inch coil.  I dig most things.  I think the 17" CTX is its equal most of the time.  Will any 11" coil be worth my time?

I don't think so.

Mitchel

The weight alone is worth switching. There will be a big coil coming. Look at the release video.

[strick]

9 hours ago, mn90403 said:

I haven't read all of this thread or most of the others.  My question is ... do I detect in areas where all of this really makes any difference?

I use an 800 on a tide beach with a 15 inch coil.  I dig most things.  I think the 17" CTX is its equal most of the time.  Will any 11" coil be worth my time?

I don't think so.

Mitchel

when you start putting 11" or larger coils on the Deus it becomes very Nose heavy...the ergonomics are perfect for the 9 inch coil...I sold one of my early deus's with the 11 inch coil due to this reason...with the 9 inch coils or smaller it's one of the nicest detectors to swing...I'll most likely be getting one however my reasons are not for beach use...If you got into some good erosion with targets everywhere it would be a detector to grab for sure. 

strick 

[Steve Herschbach]

I’ll stay with smaller coils with Deus, and use other machines for large coils.

phrunt said:

”Nokta did release an update on Facebook where Dilek come on explaining the tardiness of the Legend, it's the testers which are requesting changes with it, but the changes aren't to do with the detector working well, it works perfectly as they expected it would according to Dilek, the changes are just little things with software that they wanted adjusted but not related to performance.  So now it's not being shipped in December, or very unlikely to be and will maybe be January, or who knows when.  I wonder why the testers took so long to give this feedback.”

Despite all the time in development, this does feel rushed. XP obviously have their ducks better in a row in this release. It makes me wonder if Nokta got wind of the XP release, and moved their date up to try and beat them to the punch.

The marketing pitch is also very different, with NM specifically going after competitors, and in effect saying “look, we made an Equinox also, and for far less money.” The sales pitch is mainly about being inexpensive.

XP is taking a higher road in two ways. First, no mention really of the competition, just focused on their detector and it’s features. I like that. Tell me what you have, forget the other guy. And they are doing it with a detailed manual, and a flood of videos. Legend has no manual yet? That alone tells you it’s still “in progress” along with the delay due to changes still being made, while D2 is shipping now. How long has it been since we saw a new detector that was basically ready to ship right after it was announced? Seems forever.

And price. It’s a funny thing. People hate to spend money, but we also tend to think we are getting what we pay for. A low price is nice, but it can also constrain a design. Even if that’s not true, low price still tends to say “cheap” in peoples minds, and that’s not necessarily good. XP charging what they are for the Deus II actually makes me more interested in it, not less. I have a Equinox and so pitching me a lower price knockoff is not working. That’s aimed more at new people buying a first detector, not me. I want the best, and am willing to pay for it.

I’m not trying to give Nokta a hard time here. It’s just that marketing is my thing, and I like analyzing it. It just is what it is. In this case, it seems to me that XP, probably just though some luck in timing, really stole the wind from the Legends sails. Both the style and execution of the release also appeals more to me, and obviously to others. Now, keep in mind that this forum is a pretty elite crowd. The end result in the general retail market might be different, as the vast number of detectors actually sold are lower price models, and Nokta stands to put a huge dent in that with Legend. But with the higher end crowd, I expect it to skew heavily to Deus II, as XP is doing things in a way that appeals more to that crowd. I for one really appreciate the tech heavy manual and Gary’s videos.

[mh9162013]

26 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

XP charging what they are for the Deus II actually makes me more interested in it, not less.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm the exact opposite.

For the Deus II's MSRP, there's almost no way I'd consider using it given how and where I currently hunt. Even if I somehow won the lottery, I probably wouldn't buy it. Or if found some naive seller who was letting a Deus II go for $200, I wouldn't keep it; I'd flip it.

Once a machine breaks the $1,000 barrier, it's really hard for me to justify buying it unless I have a really special (and profitable) application for it.

This is just me, though.

[Kickindirt]

Steve I couldn't agree more with what you said, well said my friend. I also watched and listened to what Dilek had to say regarding testers and shipping. IF was my decision based on feedback from a few testers I would get the machines shipped and stand by my word of shipping in December and let the majority decide on the little update changes. Especially being nokta/makro can easily put out updates. I say let the majority decide and stand by your shipping in Dec that you already said would happen. Thats just me and my opinion. I also must say I love the fact XP came out in the last video and only compared the Deus1 vs Deus2, no drama, no negative energy towards other manufacturers. To me that is pure professionalism from XP. I also have to come out and thank Calabash digger for working hard and getting us some awesome vids with Deus2. That man has earned his machine in my opinion. XP made a wise decision sending him one to test. Thanks Cal buddy sold a few more machines thanks to your vids buddy you da man! Im sure Garys vids also helped, he does a amazing job also.

[Steve Herschbach]

5 minutes ago, mh9162013 said:

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm the exact opposite.

For the Deus II's MSRP, there's almost no way I'd consider using it given how and where I currently hunt. Even if I somehow won the lottery, I probably wouldn't buy it. Or if found some naive seller who was letting a Deus II go for $200, I wouldn't keep it; I'd flip it.

Once a machine breaks the $1,000 barrier, it's really hard for me to justify buying it unless I have a really special (and profitable) application for it.

This is just me, though.

I’d say you are in the vast majority of the overall market. But just possibly a minority on the forum.

[abenson]

The Deus II really is looking like a great machine and will be well worth the money. They are smart getting it out to a few people early and showing what it can do and how it operates. That alone is going to take some of the initial learning curve off for some people. From what I've seen so far the Deus II will pretty much match or exceed the Equinox performance with similar coil sizes. The small 6" on the Equinox will still be useful for me until XP gets a 5x10 out for the Deus II.

For me the only thing that has my curiosity with the Legend is the 6" coil. If it will outperform the Equinox with the 6" coil (which I have a feeling it will) that will be reason enough to own the Legend in addition to the Deus II.

[Jeff McClendon]

1 minute ago, mh9162013 said:

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm the exact opposite.

For the Deus II's MSRP, there's almost no way I'd consider using it given how and where I currently hunt. Even if I somehow won the lottery, I probably wouldn't buy it. Or if found some naive seller who was letting a Deus II go for $200, I wouldn't keep it; I'd flip it.

Once a machine breaks the $1,000 barrier, it's really hard for me to justify buying it unless I has a really special (and profitable) application for it.

This is just me, though.

The full Deus 1 setup broke the $1000 barrier at its original release and the prices have stayed well above $1000 for the full setup since. Paying a few hundred dollars more for a full Deus 2 is a no brainer for people who have experienced Deus 1 or even the ORX.

I get to chat with one of the sales reps for a big US detector dealer since he is a fellow hunter and vice president of our local 100+member detecting club here in the Denver area. We were trying to think how many members own or have even tried a Nokta Makro detector.......... the answer was three people and we were two of the three people. How many are Deus/Orx users..........almost half the club. Most of the other half are swinging an Equinox or Garrett.

Nokta Makro have to catch up big time in the Denver area. Implementing simultaneous multi frequency at a very affordable price which may actually work well here is a step in the right direction. Just for information.....there are a lot of unhappy APEX owners here.

[Steve Herschbach]

3 minutes ago, Kickindirt said:

Steve I couldn't agree more with what you said, well said my friend. I also watched and listened to what Dilek had to say regarding testers and shipping. IF was my decision based on feedback from a few testers I would get the machines shipped and stand by my word of shipping in December and let the majority decide on the little update changes. Especially being nokta/makro can easily put out updates. I say let the majority decide and stand by your shipping in Dec that you already said would happen. Thats just me and my opinion. I also must say I love the fact XP came out in the last video and only compared the Deus1 vs Deus2, no drama, no negative energy towards other manufacturers. To me that is pure professionalism from XP. I also have to come out and thank Calabash digger for working hard and getting us some awesome vids with Deus2. That man has earned his machine in my opinion. XP made a wise decision sending him one to test. Thanks Cal buddy sold a few more machines thanks to your vids buddy you da man! Im sure Garys vids also helped, he does a amazing job also.

Yeah, delay due to last minute changes requested by testers? Why? We know there will be more updates, so not like delaying it will make it “done.” We know XP will issue updates also. But may as well take early user comments and feedback into account, and update later after we have machines. It’s going to happen, no doubt about it. And still will happen with Legend, just like it did and continues to happen with Simplex. Bottom line is simple - they are not ready to ship yet, and the reasons do not matter. Like Yoda said: