Ferrite Ring 8 Years Later

[1515Art]

5 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Can't swear it ever made a difference in my use in the U.S., yet I always used it as part of my tune up routine. Maybe it helped and I simply don't know it. Long story short, it can't hurt, might help, why not? You want to own the most expensive nugget hunter ever sold, best performance possible.... but that one little thing is just too much?

You want one Art, I have an official Minelab Ferrite Ring, appropriate blessings applied, that I will mail you for free. Just PM me your address.

Steve, thank you appreciate the offer, I’m no longer a 7000 owner this thread was more for the buyer of my 7000, I sent him one of docs and he on his own bought one I’m not sure what one he ordered? But thank you

[Jonathan Porter]

8 hours ago, BrokeInBendigo said:

I can "balance" the ferrite out in Difficult using the QT button but cannot balance it out in Normal. I've done the octopus (as described by @Jonathan Porter ) manoeuvre for 1 to 2 minutes over the ferrite, still hear it. Especially if the ground is hot. Am I doing it wrong?

What coil do you have on your machine?

In some ground where there is a bit of saturation signal the round ferrite will channel that signal up itself magnifying it, this can sound like the Ferrite isn’t being balanced out but in fact it’s saturation signal, you cannot ground balance out saturation.

Best bet is to place the ferrite on top of a big rock (4 inches or so high) or put your ferrite on a stick and hold the coil away from the ground waving the ferrite under the coil over the windings till the noise goes (with QT depressed of course), then bring the coil to the ground and slowly pump the coil till the Semi-Auto GB balances out the ground signal. (The GB for the ground will be out because when the coil is held in air you are balancing to nothing as you calibrate to the ferrite).

If there is only a small signal off the ferrite don’t worry about it, the key is to not have a LOUD target like signal on the Ferrite. General ground noise will cover any mild signals especially when using Normal.

The Most sensitive mode on the 7000 to the ferrite is High Yield Normal.

 

 

[Northeast]

2 minutes ago, Jonathan Porter said:

The Most sensitive mode on the 7000 to the ferrite is High Yield Normal.

Morning JP.  

Obviously this is all related to the 7000.  Does X signal affect a GPX of any model?  Is there any auto calibration happening in a GPX 6000?  
 

Cheers, NE.  

[Jonathan Porter]

PI isn’t affected the same but a lot of saturation signal comes from high X ground, this is especially noticeable with the Flat wound coils, they see a LOT of X. Hence why I tell people to not scrub the coil in highly mineralised soils/gravels etc. 

X signal is no joke on the 7000 so I’m surprised by all the head in the sand humour surrounding it’s use on here ?. Yeah I get the humour, Octopus dance, Ferrit, ritualised activities around the fragile yellow round thing etc,? but in reality it is an important aspect to ZVT and should be taken very seriously.? Just because you don’t understand its use or can’t see the benefits doesn’t mean you should not use it and instead become part of the Anti-Ferriters,? there is another very hot topic raging around the world as we speak that follows a similar vein. Just because a LOT of people agree with you does not make it correct. ?

Use it, don’t use, get Ferrited or be a vocal Anti-Ferriter that’s your choice,? hey better yet buy a 6000 or an Axiom then you don’t have to do the Octopus dance of zero comprehension!!? I’m amazed after all this time that there are still people out there who refuse to inoculate with the Ferrite,? I honestly thought that discussion had been put to bed. Just like that hot world topic there are plenty of people who aren’t Ferrited who do perfectly fine without all the hoopla of the ritual of the “Yellow Lord of the Rings” ? so at the end of the day its your choice, just please don’t deride what you don’t understand.?

JP

[1515Art]

No disrespect to the ferrite, my post was tung in cheek more about why we do things. Really good to know the in-depth reasons behind why they are essential in many situations and you’re the best to shed light on something many of us were confused on. As always I’m profoundly honored and appreciate anytime you share your knowledge without it there would be a giant hole that would be tough to fill… and we hate open holes, lol.

thank you for taking time out of you busy schedule, when you could be filling your poke.

[BrokeInBendigo]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Porter said:

What coil do you have on your machine?

In some ground where there is a bit of saturation signal the round ferrite will channel that signal up itself magnifying it, this can sound like the Ferrite isn’t being balanced out but in fact it’s saturation signal, you cannot ground balance out saturation.

Best bet is to place the ferrite on top of a big rock (4 inches or so high) or put your ferrite on a stick and hold the coil away from the ground waving the ferrite under the coil over the windings till the noise goes (with QT depressed of course), then bring the coil to the ground and slowly pump the coil till the Semi-Auto GB balances out the ground signal. (The GB for the ground will be out because when the coil is held in air you are balancing to nothing as you calibrate to the ferrite).

If there is only a small signal off the ferrite don’t worry about it, the key is to not have a LOUD target like signal on the Ferrite. General ground noise will cover any mild signals especially when using Normal.

The Most sensitive mode on the 7000 to the ferrite is High Yield Normal.

 

 

Thanks JP.
 

I have a stock 14” and month-old 17” CC x-coil, believe it is bundle wound (edit: tis spiral, thanks Simon). 

Out bush in reefy country with a lot of ironstone or red mudstone type bedrock I often get a fairly loud signal on the ferrite but on alluvial gravels or paddocks it’s less intense.

I’ve been running auto but understand the advantage of semi auto - I’ll try that and your suggestion about elevating the ferrite today. 

[phrunt]

5 minutes ago, BrokeInBendigo said:

I have a stock 14” and month-old 17” CC x-coil, believe it is bundle wound.

17" CC is spiral.

[Jonathan Porter]

23 hours ago, BrokeInBendigo said:

Thanks JP.
 

I have a stock 14” and month-old 17” CC x-coil, believe it is bundle wound (edit: tis spiral, thanks Simon). 

Out bush in reefy country with a lot of ironstone or red mudstone type bedrock I often get a fairly loud signal on the ferrite but on alluvial gravels or paddocks it’s less intense.

I’ve been running auto but understand the advantage of semi auto - I’ll try that and your suggestion about elevating the ferrite today. 

A lot of the X coils will not Ferrite balance properly especially in Normal timings, the best ones I used were the 15” Concentric’s they weren’t too bad, although a friend of mine has told me his recent 17”CC coil is very good too. The reefy country will most likely be saturation signal being magnified up the centre of the Ferrite, use the in-air approach assuming the coil and timings you select will allow it.

The GPZ14 coil should be able to ferrite balance in all timings (it is OK to have some small amount of signal but a loud target-like one is not good).

If you can achieve a reasonable X balance then I highly recommend you use the Semi-Auto GB mode, once locked the X calibration cannot shift unless the temperature of the electronics shift a lot (can only shift a few % points from dead cold), however if using Auto in some ground types you will only need to walk 20 meters in Auto and the conductive and saturation signals can throw the Calibration right out, this then has a flow on effect with the G balance which then tries its hardest to compensate but WILL fail.

In the conductive areas in the US (Nevada etc) the X signal is probably minimal and the Alkali the worst so the Auto mode should not be too badly affected by a bad X balance, best way to check is to pass the coil over a ferrite occasionally and see how loud the signal is, personally even though there is not much X present I would still be using Semi-Auto if for no other reason than it might give me a slight advantage over other operators.

My experiences in Arizona showed me there was plenty of X signal to be had in and around the Bradshaw mountains, even up at Rich hill there was plenty of ground that was variable (this was in the days before Smooth, GP3000 from memory) and I’m sure there would be plenty of X signal around. Mineralisation that forms gold that is then weathered has all the elements that can affect a metal detector no matter where in the world we work, if it didn’t then Americans would still be using VLF machines there would be no point to a PI. Case in point the new Garrett Axiom, obviously there is still a need for a PI in the US.

JP

 

 

[BrokeInBendigo]

10 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

A lot of the X coils will not Ferrite balance properly especially in Normal timings, the best ones I used were the 15” Concentric’s they weren’t too bad, although a friend of mine has told me his recent 17”CC coil is very good too. The reefy country will most likely be saturation signal being magnified up the centre of the Ferrite, use the in-air approach assuming the coil and timings you select will allow it.

The GPZ14 coil should be able to ferrite balance in all timings (it is OK to have some small amount of signal but a loud target-like one is not good).

If you can achieve a reasonable X balance then I highly recommend you use the Semi-Auto GB mode, once locked the X calibration cannot shift unless the temperature of the electronics shift a lot (can only shift a few % points from dead cold), however if using Auto in some ground types you will only need to walk 20 meters in Auto and the conductive and saturation signals can throw the Calibration right out, this then has a flow on effect with the G balance which then tries its hardest to compensate but WILL fail.

In the conductive areas in the US (Nevada etc) the X signal is probably minimal and the Alkali the worst so the Auto mode should not be too badly affected by a bad X balance, best way to check is to pass the coil over a ferrite occasionally and see how loud the signal is, personally even though there is not much X present I would still be using Semi-Auto if for no other reason than it might give me a slight advantage over other operators.

My experiences in Arizona showed me there was plenty of X signal to be had in and around the Bradshaw mountains, even up at Rich hill there was plenty of ground that was variable (this was in the days before Smooth, GP3000 from memory) and I’m sure there would be plenty of X signal around. Mineralisation that forms gold that is then weathered has all the elements that can affect a metal detector no matter where in the world we work, if it didn’t then Americans would still be using VLF machines there would be no point to a PI. Case in point the new Garrett Axiom, obviously there is still a need for a PI in the US.

JP

 

 

Thanks for your detailed posts JP.