Minelab Responds To Critical You-tuber

[Bill (S. CA)]

I'm only going to throw in on this topic to point out a common flaw in most, if not all detecting videos that we see on YouTube.  They are made by amateur wannbe entertainers/filmmakers.  I've worked in the the entertainment industry in post production on television series and feature films for over 40 years.  This is why editors, producers, directors and on camera talent exist.  They are required to turn out a professional quality product.  YouTube and the GoPro have opened up what was pretty much a closed shop to the talent-less, the loudmouths, the idiots by providing them easy access to a place to show their content.  Now they think they are either Spielbergs or Johnny Carsons when in fact most of them aren't anything but bad. 

I continue to sample detecting videos to give people a look because there is always the chance of finding a gem.  But in terms of the individual-hosted diatribe fests that we see now, I have no interest.  I would recommend to all of you folks to ignore them.  If you want to watch a good show on YouTube that is simply about having fun metal detecting try the Hoover Boys.  Or the Gigmaster. 

Bill

[phrunt]

24 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

I suspect what Mark really means is that Manticore has a 50% stronger TX B-field. This can be achieved with 50% more coil current or 50% more turns in the TX coil, or some combination. In a detector with user control over the TX current (like the White's V3) you can decisively demonstrate what this does for target detection. It ain't a whole lot, but like the old man who pee'd in the sea said, every little bit helps.

I think you're right there Jeff, X-coils told me they can make coils so crazy sensitive for the GPZ but with that comes worse ground handling, it's a balance between ground handling and sensitivity.  They did however make me a one off black 12x8" coil when all their retail coils are white, this black coil was made for NZ conditions (milder soils) and is hotter than one they could retail but won't work as well in hotter soils, it works very well for me and handles any ground I've thrown at it here though.

The Manticore uses different coils to the Nox so I guess something is going on inside its coils.

[midalake]

UGH>>>

[cjc]

At first I thought he might be getting to the guts of this 50% more power claim, but my take is that even with the help Merrill has--he's in over his head in that this idea of power to the coil relating singularly  to depth is an outdated  one.  The ground forms part of the signal and is separated  by way of processing.   That (power = depth) is not even true of a pulse, as Bill Lahr has repeatedly told me.   With Multi  IQ we have a tech that (by way of sophisticated processing) locks the  ground and iron signal away from the detection signal.  This is a feat of  the amount of power going to the processer.  So with this increase there are many other benefits anyhow--most important of which is the machine separating non--ferrous objects from the ground better.  This  is what a pulse does and the difference is incredible--on deep or shallow targets--they come out of (VLF) "nowhere."  As well, the saturation that multiple frequences provide needs  to be sorted out.  This also falls to the sophistication and power of the processer being used.  The CTX is  still deeper than the EQX with or without Multi IQ--because it has that big heavy processor chugging away. 

I'm really liking the look and tech of  this detector and won't be listening to any half-baked attempts to run it down.  

cjc

[Medina]

Watched a few minutes of his first video, was too painful. Tried a couple of his other vids... merciful feck it was painful. 

Skipped about his second one, explaining the first one..like a joke, if you have to explain it..  That Uncle Fester looking dude is just another "content creator",  Repeating over and over how many videos he put out before he finally got a viral one, shows exactly where his priorities are. 

He's a teacher?? oh, we're screwed.  FCC has limits, yes, and he thought, what, how those limits are processed are all the same, no difference in a 200 or a 2000 detector? That he couldn't grasp the very mechanics of a metal detector and how that particular machine process the blob of EMI its dumping is quite disturbing really... a teacher? 

Once again, you could hand me a Stradivarius and it would still sound like a cat getting strangled. Not the tool, the user. 

 

I still have an 800(probably 1200 hours) , the Manti, and my CTX (maybe 400/450 hours)... the ctx rules, its too heavy, otherwise, i'd never have bought the Manti. The manti is twice the machine the 800 is, they should have called it the 1600. HA!  That ID line, how it processes, the ability to screw with the various settings...its a poor mans CTX and lighter!  

just my .02 zinc worth, Minelab screwed all the 800 users... I see folks selling them as low as 550 frantic to get the 900 or the Manti. Imagine the dump we'll see when they finally come out with the CTX4040 or whatever..maybe they'll give it a silly name instead of numerical designation so its easier to rationalize the purchase. ...maybe... The Phantosmia! 😄

[TampaBayBrad]

More power NOT a lie! Counter video to Mine Lab lied! video.

New video by I DIG DAYTONA shows him testing the signal strength/magnetic field output of the Equinox 800 and Manticore with a milligauss meter. (spoiler alert....Manticore wins)

 

[GB_Amateur]

1 hour ago, TampaBayBrad said:

New video by I DIG DAYTONA shows him testing the signal strength/magnetic field output of the Equinox 800 and Manticore with a milligauss meter.

That measurment starts at 5:30 on the vid with the Manticore and switches over to the Equinox around 8:30.

OK, but if you know me you know I can't let this rest here, so first I looked up the earth's magnetic field, which is between 440 mG and 480 mG in Florida (where I assume this test was made).  That's a static field, though, so not what he's measuring.  (Note the values on his scale.)  OK, it's for measuring dnynamic fields.  Next I Googled the device he's using and found this at Amazon:

Note Amazon's title!!!!!    Randi's dead but I think Carl ( @Geotech) can take it from here.

Next I look up the manufacturer's website.  I'm sure Simon will be impressed with the site's professional look 🤔.  According to them the device is intended to look for (or confirm not present) unsafe levels of certain ranges of electromagnetic radiation in, for example, the home.  The manual states the measurement includes the range 1 kHz to 20 kHz but then calls that VLF.  Well, I guess they're as sloppy with terminology as we are.

Electromagnetic Radiation is composed of alternating electric and magnetic fields.  In their instruction manual (.pdf on the website) it points out that they are measuring the magetic component of the EM radiation, thus at least the units (milliGauss) are correct.

So, how sensitive is the measurement in the video?  When I do a standard air test I have the ruler a lot closer to the coil than he does, and I stand so that I can see down the line of motion of the coin when I'm swinging the coin.  He may be doing that for his air test (I didn't watch the rest of the video) but it doesn't appear he's doing so when measuring the position of the gaussmeter when he's watching & videoing the lights on it to determine field strength vs. distance.

I like the approach but not the execution.  It's the standard "I'm getting the answer I want to get" without the needed skepticism of "what's the uncertainty in this measurement?"  Further, what's the orientation of the device that gives an accurate reading?  I looked at the instructions (.pdf on their website) and it says to point the device at the source and rotate to find the max value.  I think there are three degrees of rotation, which one?  Not the best instruction manual I've seen, nor the best measurement technique, either.

 

[Guest]

16 hours ago, cjc said:

I'm really liking the look and tech of  this detector and won't be listening to any half-baked attempts to run it down.  

Well said. Internet experts are everywhere, to listen to them sometimes it is easy to assume they actually know something. The problem comes when someone new gets to looking at these “experts” and does not have the experience to know the BS from good information. 

2 hours ago, Medina said:

Skipped about his second one, explaining the first one..like a joke, if you have to explain it..  That Uncle Fester looking dude is just another "content creator",  Repeating over and over how many videos he put out before he finally got a viral one, shows exactly where his priorities are. 

Harsh, but a well made point. It seems odd that Minelab would care enough about the individual in question to respond at all given what those videos actually amount to. Are they actually afraid of people like this?

Content creators and influencers are not the same thing as experts, sometimes a long way from any real understanding of the thing they talk about at all. Thank heaven for this forum, the truth always seems to settle out of the discussion and threads like this are valuable for setting things straight.

Doing research for this year’s detector purchase has me watching YouTube metal detecting videos lately. The bar is set pretty low.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, TampaBayBrad said:

New video by I DIG DAYTONA shows him testing the signal strength/magnetic field output of the Equinox 800 and Manticore with a milligauss meter. (spoiler alert....Manticore wins)

Indeed. Even beyond that, it appears that Manticore is more specific than Nox. Where the Nox would group some rings (and pull tabs) under the same number, the Manticore separates them. That it could give more accuracy in the field would be a benefit of greater importance than depth to some detectorists. (Like me)

Sometimes a video is worth more than a thousand words. I do not have a sophisticated understanding of detectors like many of you, I understand what settings do and how to use them to make it do what I want, but not the underlying technology. Sort of like my car that I drive but do not work on.  I use information like this to create a technique of using detectors and choosing which ones will work for what I want to do. After that, it is all about how well the technique I came up with is applied and how well the detector actually does what I hoped for. Videos like this one are gold to someone like me.

Watching this, the Manticore wins easily to my mind for what I do, and not at all because it has more power, only about what it does with that power. The remarkable thing about that video is not that an expensive top of the line detector is a winner, but what came in second. The Nox is not a pushover.

[Medina]

Quote

Manticore wins easily to my mind for what I do, and not at all because it has more power, only about what it does with that power. The remarkable thing about that video is not that an expensive top of the line detector is a winner, but what came in second. The Nox is not a pushover.

ding ding ding!  Once I figured out the CTX, my trash digs plummeted.

I still dig trash with the 800, but I'm 50/50 what it is, the 10/13ish hours I got on the manti are clearly showing whats down there...but like previous wives I just dont quite understand it. yet. 

 

..yet 

 

 this cuff button (not 100% sure, but 1812 naval possible) was a solid 17 on the manti, crossed solid, depth was the same on the cross, printed just a hair above the line, medium tone, printed solid,  I knew it was a good...just had no idea what.  Also, that place is loaded with square nails and trash from last summer to 1800... manti is performing much much better than the 800 for pumping the sens up, and filtering out chatter. I dug some nails, and trash but still learning the sounds, in and outs. I have no idea its already replaced the 800, and its so much lighter than the CTX, likely sell them off. 

nickel for size