Manticore Accessory Coils

[Jeff McClendon]

Minelab did contact me about my Nox 900 and sent me a replacement so they are reading these forums. My new Nox 900 acts basically like the one I sent to Minelab for testing.

Otherwise, Minelab does not give out information about timing of impending software updates, coils or detectors. XP does it sometimes. Nokta does it regularly.

Anyway, the Nox 600/800 has about 6 target IDs between US nickels and US zinc pennies from 14 to 19 that I could choose to dig or ignore if I wanted to when USA coin hunting. The Nox 700/900/Manticore seem to have the same non-ferrous target ID scale. Now with the expanded target ID scale of these detectors there are roughly 33 target IDs between a US nickel and a US zinc penny that I need to at least keep track of. Just using the 900, there is not a lot of distinctive information about coin sized objects that can be given by the 900’s audio. At least the Manticore has some visual indications that might help with identifying what might be under the coil if it has a non ferrous ID between 29 and 62. I don’t like looking at a display very much but it may help at this point. Target ID instability at least for me is present to various degrees using Deus 2, Nox 900 and to a lesser degree the Legend.  I am also seeing some significant upaveraging and shifting of target IDs of deeper coin sized targets using the Nox 900 and Deus 2 which is frankly annoying. I assume the Manticore may also do some similar upaveraging on some coin sized targets.

For me, it would be great to only need one or two VLF detectors for the types of hunting I do. Right now, the five that I own all have strengths and weaknesses that are covered by each other. No one detector beats the others in every category that I need a detector for like coin and jewerly, relics, submerged fresh and saltwater, and gold prospecting, all of which usually happens in at least moderately mineralized conditions with either tons of modern or 1800s trash. The one that comes the closest to doing everything really well at this point amazingly enough is the Nokta Legend.

It’s great to have all of these excellent detectors. Hopefully one will rise above them all at least for me and my hunting conditions with continued software updates and coil choices.

[Chase Goldman]

51 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Target ID instability at least for me is present to various degrees using Deus 2, Nox 900 and to a lesser degree the Legend.

My experience mirrors your own regarding no one detector doing it all.  However, my experience diverges from yours in this respect.  Legend and Nox 900 do not have TID stability anywhere near that of the Deus 2 at depth in my experience - but that is primarily in mild soil, so my soil conditions are different than yours. I have corroborated my experience with D2 rock solid ID stability with at least two other DP members here.  If I am detecting in hot ground - then I am generally just pulling out my PI which is now the Axiom and also this is for relics (not natural gold).  If I am switching up from a PI under those circumstances , then it will be the Deus 2, but that is primarily because the D2 is always strapped to my back if I am using a PI, not because i have exhaustively proved it is deeper or more stable than the Legend or Nox 800/900 in hot soil. 

So I get where you are coming from on the Deus 2 and Legend comparison based on your specific environment and your objectives and don't refute your first hand observations.  My circumstances are just different and I have less A to B to C comparisons of Nox, D2 and Legend in hot soil.  I would like to do more experimentation and get more proficiency with Legend, but to be frank, my access to prime sites is limited and I need to make the most productive use of the few hours of access I do get, rather than running science experiments.  Bottom line, is that D2 is giving me that confidence right now, so I am just pulling it or the Axiom out even with access to the Nox's and Legend.

So it really comes down to whether Manticore with the right selection of coils brings anything more to the table than D2 (or Nox, or Legend) do for me right now.  Or whether I should instead focus solely on Legend proficiency, bypass Manticore, and let my old Nox 800 be the only viable ML backup-to-a-backup machine in my arsenal.  Right now, as far as the Beach goes, I could be happy with D2 or the Nox 800, could probably get to yes with the Legend, and have no doubt the Manticore could get it done and might be fun to boot.

Really need to have the Manticore small coil available to complete this assessment.

[Mirda]

I remember, I've read under some YT video, that Minelab will release CTX successor at the end of the year. It should be named Minelab Ultimate. Maybe, they are working on this, and Manticore is on another track?

Doesn't make sense. But all of Minelab's steps, mentioned above, don't make sense...

[midalake]

6 hours ago, TampaBayBrad said:

Yes, when the coil is wet and you decide to work the dry, the sand accumulation does add some weight. I find myself turning the coil sideways and gently bumping it on the beach to shake some of it off.

I'm wondering how much heavier the 15" will be. I noticed they aren't using the extra bracing, so maybe it won't be too much heavier.

I have the Equinox 15" coil and the Manticore 11" is not much different to swing at the beach, although the 11" is a bit better. 

I suspect that few people will complain about the two coils being much different. I looked for a while and could not find any weight specs on the 11"or 15" coils. 

[longbow62]

I got my Manticore Jan. 10th so I have been waiting on the smaller coil a long time. So long that I have just quit fretting about it.  I don't have ultra mild soil. I'd say 80% of the places I hunt the soil mineralization would be medium. I don't get these excessive fluctuating I.D.'s with my Manticore. I can't speak about the 900. I can call silver dimes from clad dimes more times than not. Even clad quarters from silver quarters. So what do you guys mean exactly by jumpy I.D.'s?

[phrunt]

I need to film what I'm seeing with jumpy ID's and show a comparison to the Equinox 800, I just don't have time at the moment, I'm building myself a Cabin for my detecting gear and that's taking up every single day that the weather is fine which is almost done and ski season kicks off this weekend so detecting takes the back-burner for a few months.  I intend to get a few nugget hunts in on days when it's not too frozen but I doubt I'll be using my Manticore or Equinox until spring now.

[TampaBayBrad]

9 hours ago, phrunt said:

I'm building myself a Cabin for my detecting gear

? SAY WHAT??!! ?

[TampaBayBrad]

Here's what Dankowski said about the coil delay. Directly from his forum:

Tom-----What is the reason for this delay in getting Manticores out (in users hands)?----Has it got to do with Minelab implementing this new update?----Manticores have just been very slooowly trickling in to dealers.----Have even heard now that there won't be anymore coming to dealers until sometime in July.------Del

Reply Quote

NASA-Tom Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE June 19, 2023 04:03PM

Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 9,866

Del........ the true bottom-line is: DEMAND
The demand for this detector has been the highest......... since ML history. And............ even to the point whereby............ accessory coils production...is 'on hold'....... until we can get this SUPPLY/demand issue resolved on the actual unit itself. (Accessory coils are a 'secondary' concern...... compared to 'primary' ""actual unit"" production).

 

Link

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, TampaBayBrad said:

Here's what Dankowski said about the coil delay. Directly from his forum:

Tom-----What is the reason for this delay in getting Manticores out (in users hands)?----Has it got to do with Minelab implementing this new update?----Manticores have just been very slooowly trickling in to dealers.----Have even heard now that there won't be anymore coming to dealers until sometime in July.------Del

Reply Quote

NASA-Tom Re: MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE June 19, 2023 04:03PM

Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 9,866

Del........ the true bottom-line is: DEMAND
The demand for this detector has been the highest......... since ML history. And............ even to the point whereby............ accessory coils production...is 'on hold'....... until we can get this SUPPLY/demand issue resolved on the actual unit itself. (Accessory coils are a 'secondary' concern...... compared to 'primary' ""actual unit"" production).

 

Link

Brad - thanks for providing that link.  Much appreciated.  Access to Tom's forum has been spotty of late and frankly, the way its laid out is severely dated and makes it difficult to follow and find information.

However, I'm not buying into what ML is saying because the view from the outside kind of contradicts that statement.  First, if it's a supply-demand issue, why did they decide to simultaneously take on Nox 700/900 and X-Terra Pro production which utilizes and exhausts many of the same hardware components and consumes precious assembly line capacity and resources at their manufacturer in Malaysia? If anything, the problem is not external demand but an internal self-inflicted wound.  I seriously doubt (but can't prove) that the Manticore demand, at its Price Point, is higher than Nox was at its peak in 2018, and while accessory coils were delayed there too, based on similar release time frames, accessory coils should have been released by now.  If demand is so high, and supply chain management so challenged, then why take on additional demand and models that would just exacerbate the problem?

Despite ML's claims, they seem to have no problem feeding the beast at Cabela's and other big box retailers at a 50 detector per shipment clip, because big box can move vast quantities of product faster that individual dealers.  Note also that ML does not have to directly subsidize their advertised manufacturer US military discount like they do with individual dealers, because Cabelas does not participate in that program as they have their own.

I think the bottom line is that coils simply do not bring in as much revenue as detectors so as long as ML can focus on cranking out Manticores, Nox's and Xterras they can make money hand over fist and since they've already captured the Manticore buyer, there is no hurry to get the accessories out, because in their misguided point of view, having accessories available on day one does not accelerate detector sales.  I disagree and think it is a poor business decision and is sort of a slap in the face to Manticore buyers to keep dragging their feet on it.  But it is what it is.  All I can say is don't hold your breath waiting for those coils to hit the streets as they apparently aren't even willing to project a release date at this point, 7 months into the release of the Manticore...and nine plus months after simultaneously announcing the Manticore and the accessory coils, with photo renderings.