A Question Of Audio Response

[CPT_GhostLight]

6 hours ago, UKD2User said:

I agree, I don't like lowering AR much below 5.

Maybe I'm just lucky, I find it's very unusual to have EMI so bad - over such a large area - and having fairly benign soil/sand generally - that I need to "detune" the machine.

Something that all manufacturers could usefully do is get someone on their engineering teams with a deep understanding of psycho-acoustics.  I think that, given the laws of physics and the current state of the art, the real progress yet to be made is in helping the user "hear" good targets better, at whatever depth, than the "trash".

e.g. this kind of thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_masking

Great article, UKD2User! I feel like we're getting closer by the introduction of many more audio types and user controllable variables. I was in a nail bed today and just lowering the iron volume allowed me to hear some deeper masked coins well enough to dig them out even with my Audio Response at 3.

[Skull diver]

Personally, I found AR to be a valuable aid in emphasizing weak signals and thus gaining a few inches at least to flush out something others had gone over without success.

Fact is, I was forced to keep it at 6 because of the bonephones I was hearing really badly between the regulator bubbles, but now with the new headset I may try to cut down interference and attempt 40kHz.

I doubt unfortunately that in salt water I can get as much stability or audio silence, just because of the frequency.

I don't like it as much on 24kHz so I will try in the near future if it helps.

[F350Platinum]

Surprised I missed this one Cap'n, looks like any of my recent beach hunts. 🤣

Seriously though, in my area which is low on salt but not devoid,  the detector gets way too chatty at any AR level over 3. When I encounter black sand on one beach I have to turn it down to 1. It could be because I have sensitivity at 95, I imagine the two sort of regulate each other.

[midalake]

1 hour ago, F350Platinum said:

When I encounter black sand on one beach I have to turn it down to 1. It could be because I have sensitivity at 95, I imagine the two sort of regulate each other.

Interesting idea from your thoughts. I was finally able to get out post Hilary yesterday. The Black Sand is really bad here with the large waves. I regulated my sensitivity from 85 to 92 to deal with different black sand concentrations, also tracking GB was used. It was tough conditions.
I learned about a half hour in that the wave wash moving Black Sand was so severe if there was any water going over the top of the coil there was no detection.  For example: If there was still 3 inches of water rushing over my coil, I could not hear my aluminum scoop handle passed over the coil 4"away.  ANY found target I had was not to be heard with any amount of water passing over the coil. It made for very slow progress detecting. 

Today I will bury a few fringe objects and test lower sensitivity higher AR, and lower AR with higher sensitivity. 

Even though conditions were some of the worst I have seen, the outcome was not too bad. Wrist chain 10k, ring 18k. 

 

[F350Platinum]

16 minutes ago, midalake said:

Today I will bury a few fringe objects and test lower sensitivity higher AR, and lower AR with higher sensitivity. 

I'm totally sold on tracking GB now, thanks. 👍

I'm hunting beaches on a river that is brackish, don't need salt sens adjustment higher than 3. You must have a lot of salt and black sand! 🫤

The river sand on one beach is that pure white silica like our Florida friends enjoy, but it's shot through with black sand, and water over and under the coil adds a small bit but not much. AR at 3 causes a lot of chatter. There's no EMI, heck I can hardly get a cell signal.

With AR at 1 in the water, Beach Sensitive runs quiet and still hits small bits of cans and sinkers hard at a pretty good depth. (That's all that is there, I can keep it clean) On the beach I can run AR at 3 but not higher and it's still quiet until something is there.

I do get a faint but desirable signal now and again, so I'll turn up AR to get it to be clearer, but that brings the other noise back. 🤔 Usually I can't find the object causing the signal regardless.

Interested in your results. 🙂

[CPT_GhostLight]

Congrats on the gold finds @midalake!

I was on another relic site a few days ago and was experimenting with different Sensitivity and AR settings, and found that lower Sensitivity and higher AR in the square nail beds really made the non-ferrous targets pop through the iron noise at that particular site.

[midalake]

15 hours ago, F350Platinum said:

With AR at 1 in the water, Beach Sensitive runs quiet and still hits small bits of cans and sinkers hard at a pretty good depth. (That's all that is there, I can keep it clean) On the beach I can run AR at 3 but not higher and it's still quiet until something is there.

Well I completed AR testing today and it did not take long to see where strengths lay. 

To sum it up before the longer version: Keep your AR high and control detectability with sensitivity. 

 Went to a second beach today and was able to work slightly higher sensitivity 91-92 in beach sensitive and AR at 6. Still could not work in the water without the Black Sand crippling the detection field. 

Buried two different sized targets a Mex ten-peso coin and a coper Canada penny at about 12"> Wet Sand, slight water contact. 

Both sounded good with a solid TID reading with sensitivity at 91 and AR 6.
Changed the AR to 1 and sensitivity to 97 and could not hear either target.
It was not until AR hit 3 that the target had a good response you would not walk by, but the TID was not reliable. At an AR of 4 the TID was better but read a bit low for both targets. AR of 5 had good TID lock. 

I do not think it is wise to turn AR down from 5 or 6. There was nothing to be gained in a sensitivity boost from 91 to 97 and a lower AR. Clearly, reducing sensitivity to get to your desired huntable level with a high AR is a winning combination. 

[ColonelDan]

6 hours ago, midalake said:

Well I completed AR testing today and it did not take long to see where strengths lay. 

To sum it up before the longer version: Keep your AR high and control detectability with sensitivity. 

 Went to a second beach today and was able to work slightly higher sensitivity 91-92 in beach sensitive and AR at 6. Still could not work in the water without the Black Sand crippling the detection field. 

Buried two different sized targets a Mex ten-peso coin and a coper Canada penny at about 12"> Wet Sand, slight water contact. 

Both sounded good with a solid TID reading with sensitivity at 91 and AR 6.
Changed the AR to 1 and sensitivity to 97 and could not hear either target.
It was not until AR hit 3 that the target had a good response you would not walk by, but the TID was not reliable. At an AR of 4 the TID was better but read a bit low for both targets. AR of 5 had good TID lock. 

I do not think it is wise to turn AR down from 5 or 6. There was nothing to be gained in a sensitivity boost from 91 to 97 and a lower AR. Clearly, reducing sensitivity to get to your desired huntable level with a high AR is a winning combination. 

Your results mirror mine.  Ergo, I keep the AR at 7 in my environment

[F350Platinum]

6 hours ago, midalake said:

I do not think it is wise to turn AR down from 5 or 6. There was nothing to be gained in a sensitivity boost from 91 to 97 and a lower AR. Clearly, reducing sensitivity to get to your desired huntable level with a high AR is a winning combination. 

Thanks! Do you hear a lot of chatter with AR that high, and are you using Beach Sensitive? I might need to look at another setting. 🤔 Or another program.

Really appreciate the info. 👍

[ColonelDan]

48 minutes ago, F350Platinum said:

Thanks! Do you hear a lot of chatter with AR that high, and are you using Beach Sensitive? I might need to look at another setting. 🤔 Or another program.

Really appreciate the info. 👍

I'm using the modified beach sensitive program that you and I have discussed/shared.  I don't get a lot of chatter...any initial chatter I do experience, I can deal with by noise cancelling and/or adjusting the sensitivity and/or reactivity.