A Few Observations On The Manticore, After About 50 Hours (and A Few Recent Nice Finds)...

[UT Dave]

2 hours ago, abenson said:

 

 

 

I think this may well be the most helpful Manticore video I have watched to date.  Thanks @abenson!  I know how much work it is not only to do the testing, the back and forth with the updates, the coils, all of that - but also the video production.  The effort is appreciated and I think will be helpful to many.

That up averaging with the M8 IS troubling...

- Dave

[GB_Amateur]

On 7/31/2023 at 5:55 PM, abenson said:

The video below...

Excellent, informative video as always.  What I noticed (at least I think I did) besides what you commented on was the target trace for the clean sounding signals didn't match the audio.  Ok, when the dime was 98-99 the target trace was where it should be -- on the centerline -- but for the other targets the trace was in the lower section right on the mask setting line.

[UT Dave]

So, I was about to send this to @abenson in private.  But we are having a healthy discussion on Manticore settings here so decided to post it.

Short school hunt this afternoon.  Running ATHC, 19 Sens, Recovery 6.  I got a faint but pretty tight and repeatable signal in the 76-81 range.  To @GB_Amateur point immediately above, there was no target trace for it, just a faint audio and the TID's.  Not common.  More common is no TID's but audio and a target trace.

Anyway...  Thought, good opportunity to play with settings on this target.  Tried ATLC and ATHC, running sense and recovery up and down until the signal got noticeably worse going either direction with each setting in each mode.  Ended up, the best signal was about where I had started.  ATHC, with sensitivity basically a tie between 19 and 20, and recovery basically a tie between 5 and 6.

Dug it.  Nothing to get excited about.  A '64 Lincoln.  But, at an honest 8".  I pulled it from the bottom of the hole, not out of the pile.

Could just have just as easily been a '64 Rosie, really.

So, here is the salient point.  In ATLC, with a sensitivity of 22 or 23 and a recovery of 4, I would NOT have stopped for this signal.  And that, has been kind of my go to default settings for turf hunting with the Manticore and I "thought" it was doing pretty darn good!

Dirt specific, all that.  And I'm not trying to claim this is some sort of revelation or anything.  Just sharing that, settings really do matter, they really are site specific, and it appears that what seemed intuitive on the 800 is not necessarily the right way to tune on the Manticore at least in hot soil.

- Dave

[phrunt]

Yes, I've been saying since a few weeks after getting my Manticore less is more when it comes to sensitivity, I've found 16 the sweet spot for my soils, maximum depth while maintaining the best ID's, 18 is OK, over 20 and things go south quickly.    I guess it's good to have that extra power if a situation arises that can use and take advantage of it though but you just have to be aware if you're up over 20 red lining it you're losing traction and may skid out of control 🙂

 

[abenson]

2 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

Excellent, informative video as always.  What I noticed (at least I think I did) besides what you commented on was the target trace for the clean sounding signals didn't match the audio.  Ok, when the dime was 98-99 the target trace was where it should be -- on the centerline -- but for the other targets the trace was in the lower section right on the mask setting line.

That is pretty common in my soil. What you are seeing is the target just getting pulled from the ground mineralization on deeper targets. Ferrous limits in this case are the ground. I can move the ferrous limits down to 1 or up to max (6 if I recall correctly) and the target will always just trace right above what the ferrous limits are set at. Changing the ferrous limits in some cases can make the target sound better. But the point is if you get a target that traces just above the ferrous limits you better dig it.

Edit-the above pertains to lower ferrous limits.

[abenson]

1 hour ago, UT Dave said:

So, here is the salient point.  In ATLC, with a sensitivity of 22 or 23 and a recovery of 4, I would NOT have stopped for this signal.  And that, has been kind of my go to default settings for turf hunting with the Manticore and I "thought" it was doing pretty darn good!

Dirt specific, all that.  And I'm not trying to claim this is some sort of revelation or anything.  Just sharing that, settings really do matter, they really are site specific, and it appears that what seemed intuitive on the 800 is not necessarily the right way to tune on the Manticore at least in hot soil.

- Dave

Prior to all this testing I've been doing, your settings about mimicked mine. I would usually park hunt in AT LC sensitivity at 22-24 EMI allowing and recovery at 3 or 4. I'm now using AT HC tamed down and getting much better depth and better target ID.

Both the Equinox and Deus 2 you can push the sensitivity up and lower the recovery speed, most times resulting in better performance. Finding this is not the case with the Manticore. 

[Dug D]

1 hour ago, abenson said:

I can move the ferrous limits down to 1 or up to max (6 if I recall correctly) and the target will always just trace right above what the ferrous limits are set at. Changing the ferrous limits in some cases can make the target sound better.

I was making that exact adjustment today attempting to remove the iron grunts from a good target, iron grunts stayed. I do have a lot of nails so maybe there is some contamination. Or maybe shifting the ground balance up/down would clear it up. 

[RSmith]

To test abenson’s findings,(raise the recovery  speed to around 6 and lower the sensitivity to around 18) I went back out to the dime I buried (5.5 inches — max depth, the Manticore would detect in this soil). 

What worked best in my soil was —- recovery speed 2-3 and sensitivity adjusted up till it start s to chatter and back down until all chat stops. (ended up to be 20 at that time).  The more I raised the recovery speed the more degraded the signal became, both in sound and looks on the screen. —- With the sensitivity going up in to chatter even a little makes the numbers more erratic, while going lower only makes it weaker, both in sound and on screen. 

I tried different search modes all seemed to act the same, although some better than others. As expected the AT-HC was the strongest, with AT-LC and AT-G close behind. 

I also tried reverting back to the original version of software. This acted very much the same, BUT it was very hard to make it responsive over the dime. The new update in my soil is definitely deeper. 

While I was at it I also got out my Equinox 800 testing to find the best settings I concluded that in my soil  the Equinox 800 is  deeper than the original software, but not as deep as the new update. 

I have also learned (the hard way) over my 215 plus hours (these are actual hours spent on the machine. I have kept a log listing time and finds since day one with the Manticore) that you CANNOT treat the Manticore like the Equinox 800. If you do you will be in deep trouble fast. The logical thinking of the settings of the two machines are different, it  would probably be easier to understand this machine if you never used an Equinox. 

Trying the same approach that works for abenson I cannot even get a peep on my dime, and my approach (I am guessing) abenson would not hear several targets. 

After reading over the different posts, and doing my own testing,I feel the trick to tame this beast is to understand the type and amount of mineralization in your soil and setting according to it. —— BUT—- it’s not only a matter of setting the recovery speed, but also how you adjust the sensitivity. Then I wonder if and how the ferrous limits play into it. 

If we had a meter on the Manticore, we could check the mineralization when we get to each spot we hunt and make a list of what settings work best and before long we could look at the meter and instantly know how to set the machine up to get the most out of it. 

It amazes me just how much different this machine acts in different areas. The 2 properties I described in an earlier post were only  5 miles apart, but using the same settings on one I was getting deep loud signals, and on the other everything sounded faint, thin and scratchy, like a false on a small nail. (and visa versa)

RSmith

[Yatahaze323]

I feel like everyone needs to start emailing Minelab support and request the mineralization strength meter.  I know people say that minelab looks at forums but who knows if they actually do or not.

I'm gonna send them an email requesting the meter and other ideas as well. 

service@minelab.com.au

minelab@minelab.com.au

[fishersari]

1 hour ago, Yatahaze323 said:

I feel like everyone needs to start emailing Minelab support and request the mineralization strength meter.  I know people say that minelab looks at forums but who knows if they actually do or not.

I concur... 110%.. 😁

In mean time.. how do you determine the mineralization's for the time being with Manticore?

As for me (I don't know this is correct/right way or not) ..

a) by using 2D screen.. if my targets floating at the lower ferrous limit..  its the indications of mineralization's in my soil and Ill bump up the recovery speed to 5 or 6.

b) changing ground balance number manually (+ve and -ve) and see how far off the tones changes (on 5 inches or deeper target only). For example if the tones changes/skew? with +/-  5 points from the 'pumping' GB value. I will use recovery speed of 6. At some places the tones changes when the GB greater than +/- 10 points of pumping GB value, I'm going all out.. the max sensitivity as I can with recovery of 4.

I only use these method IF I found a target. If there is another way that is more effective and correct. I'm all ears.