A Few Observations On The Manticore, After About 50 Hours (and A Few Recent Nice Finds)...

[steveg]

On 7/25/2023 at 9:12 PM, abenson said:

What I've found from probably about 100+ hours is AT HC is basically worthless for the type of hunting I do in the moderate to high mineral ground I have. The only place I would use AT HC is in a relatively free from iron field with low minerals. It worked great for me in North Carolina. But around here I have found AT LC to be my go to mode for most of my detecting. AT LC has way less falsing and a more stable ID in sites with lots of iron and on deeper targets in my moderate to high mineralization. I've got a few videos I'll post over the next week or so showing the Manticore in action using AT LC. The M8 coil is also proving to be a real asset to the Manticore in iron and in high mineraliztion. I've toyed with the idea of going back to the 800. But the more I use the Manticore and learn how to set it up correctly for different sites the more I like it and doubt I'll go back to the 800.

abenson --

Interesting to hear that you think ATLC has more stable ID.  I TOTALLY agree that it's way less falsy; interesting, on the ID observation.  

ALSO interesting are your comments on the M8 coil (enough that it pushes me to get on when they are available), and what you've said about how you toyed with the idea of ditching the MC for your 800, but over time, as you've learned it, you feel less likely to do so.  I was at that SAME point, 2 weeks ago...now, I'm more thinking I'll stick with it...

Steve

[steveg]

On 7/26/2023 at 8:14 AM, CliveHamy said:

Hi Steve, thanks for that. You did not mention what was showing on the 2-D display for the coins. I assume it was just mapping the audio you were hearing? Was everything along the central line, or where some of the high tones and grunts shown off the axis?

Cheers Clive

Clive,

Interesting that you should ask.  I am definitely an "audio first" guy, and a "numbers" guy, second.  But also, one that appreciates the idea of having the 2D display.  

The way I'm approaching the 2D display, is trying to learn what I feel is most important (the audio), and then let it (the audio nuances) teach me something about how to decipher the 2D display, and then HOPEFULLY, learn that it can also (hopefully) work vice-versa -- i.e. that at times there may be clues in the 2D display that will teach me something about the audio output I'm hearing...

MANY or MOST of the high tones, that end up being nails, I've found to be "off center," usually "smears" to the high side.  I do NOT yet have a feel for exactly how much faith to put in the 2D display, but I WILL say this...on that 1876 dime in particular, I could hear soft grunts, and could hear a repeatable high tone as I rotated and swept the target.  Not ENTIRELY unlike what I would hear with about 1000 deep rusty square nails.  BUT -- one thing that did push me to make a "dig" decision on that particular target, was that there was a very consistent, fairly round dot on the center line, without any "smears."  The only other thing I saw, was a smaller/less obvious dot straight above the dot on the center line, but all the way at the very top of the screen.  It was definitely a "different" 2D plot, and it intrigued me.  

Otherwise, though, I need much more time on the unit to understand the audio, and then make the visual (2D screen) connections as well.  It's almost like you have to learn TWO things, with this unit.  Learn all the AUDIO nuances, and ALSO learn all the VISUAL nuances.  I have a sense that there will be valuable information in BOTH, but it will take alot of time to gain expertise on this unit.  It is NOT, in my view, not the best-suited machine for a novice hunter.  Nor for someone without alot of time and patience, to invest in learning it.  But, I am pretty sure at this point that sticking to it, and learning this machine, will be worth it in the end. 

Steve

[steveg]

7 hours ago, RSmith said:

I am having the same issue as Steven. I have 211 hours on my Manticore. I did do the update and I have Equinox 800 that I have been using for many years. Before the update in my soil the Equinox 800 would go deeper and with better sound. The Manticore would false on every iron and even just dirt at times.

Since the update the Manticore will hit a little deeper than the Equinox 800. However I am not having the great experience with the stabilizer as most are. In my soil (maybe my machine is bad?) using the stabilizer, it degrades the sound of coins but does nothing on the false. 
to test this further I buried a dime 5.5 inches (that is as deep as I could go and still detect it). I also buried (at 5.5 inches) a rusted bolt with nut on it that tricked me earlier that day at the park. 
1- with filter off—- raising the stabilizer from 0 - 12 my dime would go from a good signal and get worse - to no signal at 11 —— BUT the false on the bolt would be the same all the way from 0 thru 12, it would sound like a good target the whole time. 
2- with filter on —- both the dime and false on the bolt would sodium’s good at 0, but starting at 1 they both would degrade equally getting worse as I went up until around 7 they both were gone. 
 

I was using AT-HC noise cancel- ground balance- sensitivity as high as I could without chatter- 1 region all tones-normal /simple- ferrous limits 8/3

RSmith

Interesting observations, RSmith.  ONCE I get to the point where I feel I know the machine enough to perform the upgrade, I am going to have to spend some serious time in the test garden, to see what exactly the stabilizer, and stabilizer filter, will do...

I will say that rusty bolts can be tough.  From one direction, I find that bolts can sound pretty good.  I wonder, instead, what results you might have if you tried it with a target that "almost" fooled you, but did not.  In other words, if stabilizer can help with those targets where you have to stop, and interrogate, and instead allow you to much more quickly say "nope, not digging that," that would also be helpful...as that's what I am dealing with.  I am not sure I get FOOLED all that more often, with the MC than I did with the EQX on iron targets, it's just that I have to spend alot of energy and brain power really working a target hard, to make that dig vs. no dig decision, whereas with the EQX, it was MUCH more easy to do.  And so, that, combined with how much more "noisy" the MC is, means I'm spending WAY more time thinking/interrogating crappy targets, than I would like to be.  SO, if stabilizer helps turn a "not quite good-sounding" target, that you need to stop to interrogate just to be sure, into a "pretty bad-sounding" target, to where you could quickly ignore it, that would be a plus in my mind...

Steve

[steveg]

7 hours ago, Yatahaze323 said:

Check out this video on the Stabilizer, it described how it functions pretty well.

 

Yatahaze -- I HAVE seen that video, and it's a good one.  I plan to refer back to it, as soon as I decide to download the update.

THANKS!

Steve

[Chesroy]

It does come across to me that some users really are not totally satisfied with the machine and feel that they should spend hours and hours trying to convince themselves to like it otherwise fellow users will look down on them for not trying. Peer pressure I suppose.

I look at this way if a car handles badly or you do not like driving it why spend hours and hours driving it to get used to driving a badly handling car. 

All your doing is getting used to driving a badly handling car ! and forgetting about the fact that it handles badly lol.

 

 

 

 

[UT Dave]

I actually really quite like the Manticore.  Even though, I have gone through much of what @steveg has described.  Before the update, I was getting into a really nice groove with the machine.  I think it is deeper than the 800.  And the audio and ID splatter can be learned and exploited.  The ID splatter is only a thing, for me, in my dirt, in the copper penny/clad dime range where I typically dig everything anyway.  On low conductors and in the clad quarter and silver range I don't see much ID splatter at all.  Especially on the low/mid conductor.  I can call nickels on the Manticore crazy good (except for gold rings and broke in half oval tabs - the only two surprises when I'm thinking nickel).  I still have my 800 and have even used it more than a couple of times recently for the 6" coil.  No flies on the 800.  I think it's an awesome machine.  But, I don't see myself going back to it.

I don't like the update though.  Just rolled mine back (again) today.  Had decided to give the update another try, but it really seemed like what you just said @Chesroy.  Like I was punishing myself to try and learn something that I didn't like.  After my initial learning curve on the old version though, I really do, quite, like the Manticore.

@steveg, with your typically red Oklahoma dirt, I don't think I'd be in any hurry to try the update.

- Dave

[fishersari]

On 7/28/2023 at 5:25 AM, steveg said:

It's almost like you have to learn TWO things, with this unit.  Learn all the AUDIO nuances, and ALSO learn all the VISUAL nuances.  I have a sense that there will be valuable information in BOTH, but it will take alot of time to gain expertise on this unit

This is true man... manticore has 2 languages to master, 1 is tonal language and the other is the 2d graph as you said. A youtuber  (forgot who he is and I think its make sense in a way) said that the 2D graph is a the written language of the aliens that the scientist trying to decipher in a movie called Arrival lol... Manticore also has 2 non ferrous line to look into.. Its not just the middle line is non ferrous..  non ferrous target will be 'floating' at the bottom ferrous line also which I think its only happen in highly mineralize soil... 

would be great If the forum has a dedicated post for Manticore 2D graph, and we post our finding/conclusions in relations of tonal and 2D picture on how it paint the target in the ground. Should be shorten our 2D paint language learning curve..

[fishersari]

2 hours ago, UT Dave said:

but it really seemed like what you just said @Chesroy.  Like I was punishing myself to try and learn something that I didn't like. 

Same here too.. But I also saw what the Manticore can do for me and the potential what it can be.. that's why I still push on to learn the machine... its part of the 'fun' for me

[GB_Amateur]

11 hours ago, RSmith said:

with filter on —- both the dime and false on the bolt would sodium’s good at 0, but starting at 1 they both would degrade equally getting worse as I went up until around 7 they both were gone. 

You may well be aware of this but, like the FE vs F2 on the Equinox 800, there can be confusion about the stabilizer and stabilizer filter settings.  For clarity sake:

If the Stabilizer is set to zero, the stabilizer filter (on or off) has no effect whatsoever.  At least that is what it says in the user manual.

[Dug D]

I went back to original software also. I spent an hour tonight watching almost only the 2d screen. You can learn alot and it will save you from digging junk. 

But all deep coin size targets 8+ inches seem only to have faint audio, no number or mark on the 2d screen.  

My 6 inch dime has a scattering of hits around the center line, but never forms any dot, I can tell its something good because there is no dark smear in the upper iron limit and the mixed higher numbers. 

Not sure how anyone is running tones, but I am using 5 tones, but my highest tone begins at 55 and runs to the top. I did that out of frustration because I could not hit on anything that was consistently a high or even stayed in the range of high tone.🙄