New Minelab Blues

[phrunt]

I wonder what the future holds for metal detector manufacturers, the new models struggling to be better than models already existing on the market by either their own brand or others.  If we have about reached peak performance what's left? How can they keep coming out with new models to sustain their business?

Gold detectors have been there for some time I think, they were restricted by coils to keep gaps open for new models but the gaps been filled now anyway.  The VLF's haven't had the same treatment being limited by coils as coils don't make as much of a difference on them. 

Is the Manticore 2 just going to be a Manticore with the target ID stability restored to be Nox 800 like, will they just add more bells and whistles to the same base technology.  Are new detectors even going to be worth buying for people with existing ones?

If we are at the peak where to from here, will these businesses even survive in their current form as we know them.  Other brands have come into the market like Nokta/Quest/Rutus and are chipping away sales off the bigger names some even becoming the big names.  All this means less sales for the traditional manufacturers meaning even less spent on R&D as the pool of money shrinks and technology reaches its limits

Gold fields drying up, coiins disappearing from use, older coins all being found, jewellery largely going to cheaper metals on the next generation, detector users often being the older generation with the younger generation having less interest in it.... it's a dying hobby.

It's not a business I'd want to have money tied up in.

[abenson]

4 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I wonder what the future holds for metal detector manufacturers, the new models struggling to be better than models already existing on the market by either their own brand or others.  If we have about reached peak performance what's left? How can they keep coming out with new models to sustain their business?

Gold detectors have been there for some time I think, they were restricted by coils to keep gaps open for new models but the gaps been filled now anyway.  The VLF's haven't had the same treatment being limited by coils as coils don't make as much of a difference on them. 

Is the Manticore 2 just going to be a Manticore with the target ID stability restored to be Nox 800 like, will they just add more bells and whistles to the same base technology.  Are new detectors even going to be worth buying for people with existing ones?

If we are at the peak where to from here, will these businesses even survive in their current form as we know them.  Other brands have come into the market like Nokta/Quest/Rutus and are chipping away sales off the bigger names some even becoming the big names.  All this means less sales for the traditional manufacturers meaning even less spent on R&D as the pool of money shrinks and technology reaches its limits

Gold fields drying up, coiins disappearing from use, older coins all being found, jewellery largely going to cheaper metals ont he next generation, detector users often being the older generation with the younger generation having less interest in it.... it's a dying hobby.

It's not a business I'd want to have money tied up in.

This is why I have slowly sold off most of my metal detectors except a select few. It's going to take a lot to convince me I need another metal detector if something new comes out.

A person needs to do more and more research to uncover sites that someone over looked. Or take a bulldozer to the ones that exist and shave a few inches off the top to get the deeper stuff masked by trash. The work involved often times isn't worth it.

Can't say I haven't made some amazing finds over the last 5 years, some of the best in the 40+ years of metal detecting. But it requires traveling sometimes 1000's of miles or hiking into remote areas to make them. 90% of the time I would have been better off just staying home and cleaning the yard. But it's the adventure that keeps me going, at some point I'm going to have to say enough is enough and find a different hobby.

But yea, not a business I would like to be in right now.

[Digalicious]

59 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Gold fields drying up, coiins disappearing from use, older coins all being found, jewellery largely going to cheaper metals on the next generation, detector users often being the older generation with the younger generation having less interest in it.... it's a dying hobby.

It's not a business I'd want to have money tied up in.

100% agree on all of that. I've mentioned the same a few times.

Induction balance detectors have reached their peak. It's hard to imagine why any detector company would put R&D into a milked out technology.

The only hope I can possibly see is a true imaging detector. However, it's main and major benefit would be for distinguishing jewelry from aluminum trash. Problem is, most jewelry these days is trash. So,  is there even any point in putting money into that kind of technology? Furthermore, to get that kind of technology to where it would need to be, while also being practical and reasonably priced, would cost an enormous amount of money, without any guarantee that it's even possible.

Yep. A dying hobby indeed.

[Dug D]

I'll say it again, good to hear I am not crazy or the only one. After the Manticore update my finds dropped off, I set up some basic tests recently and then rolled back to the original software to check. For me I think the old software was performing better for deeper targets. I am going to be running old software for my next few hunts. I might have found another trick or two also, but have to test more. 

I think its worth noting that the 700, 900, X Pro and M-Core have jumpy signals, I think ML needs to look hard at their overall software they are using to create their TIDs. 

I would also note that with the M-Core updated software, every good target I found, the X-Pro also hit easily ??? 

That was not the case with the old/original software. 

as for my Pro-find 35, Pleaseeee let me trade it in for the Pro 40, I won't buy the Pro 40 simply out of spite after spending the money for the 35. I'm sure another option will work fine for me. 

[phrunt]

They should do a trade in program for the Pro-Find 35 whereby owners of it can trade it in on a 40 for half price as a token of goodwill.   They would still more than cover costs I'm sure and they would make a lot of unhappy customers a bit happier about their purchase.  I'd snap it up if they did that.

[Chase Goldman]

3 hours ago, phrunt said:

 

Gold fields drying up, coiins disappearing from use, older coins all being found, jewellery largely going to cheaper metals on the next generation, detector users often being the older generation with the younger generation having less interest in it.... it's a dying hobby.

Not quite as pessimistic regarding the decline of the hobby - but agree that lack of easy site access to public and private lands, transition to a cashless society, and a younger generation that is less enamored with precious metal and gemstone jewelry minimize replenishment and less ability to squeeze much more out of induction-based detection technologies do point to a declining trend.  This is exacerbated by unrealistic social media depictions of what treasure hunting really entails, meaning a lot of folks think they can just grab the latest wiz bang detector and find good stuff.  The result is new people not adhering to proper treasure hunting etiquette, breaking rules and causing more sites to become off limits.  It’s a kind of a slow motion death spiral for detecting, in general.

[GB_Amateur]

Wow, this has sure devolved into a pessimistic thread.

One thing (of the many) that has crossed my mind with the Manticore in particular is whether the plethora of settings is translating from what ML thought they were delivering to what the end users are accomplishing.

Recall the White's Vision (V3i, etc.).  There was great fanfare with all the (virtual) knobs and switches provided.  The settings combinations were astronomical.  And in the end it flew like a lead balloon.  It seemed like most people just wanted their old familiar MXT's, DFX's, and XLT's back.

[fishersari]

11 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

 

I am referencing Abenson's video without his permission to give you a visual/audio experience of what some of us are seeing with the performance of the Nox 900 and Manticore in moderate to high iron mineralization. I hope that is OK.

Using the 900 for almost 5 months in those conditions, the video from Andy shows much the same as I experienced. Now he is using full tones. Imagine using 2 tones and having to watch the numbers or using 5 tones with tone bins that are being constantly crossed over with these unstable target responses. Those jumpy numbers are not mostly being caused by EMI. Those are target responses that are being influenced by ground conditions.

Watch from the 1:20 mark to the 5:50 mark for a short video example of what many of us are talking about.

You can also skip over to the 9:30 mark and watch to the 14:50 mark and see the Equinox 900, Manticore and Deus 2 in action at a different, slightly less iron mineralized site on 5", 6" and 8" US dimes.

Better yet, just enjoy the whole video.

I would like to own an Equinox 900 or a Manticore. Right now, they would not offer an improvement over my Deus 2, Equinox 800 or even my Nokta Legend.

 

Thank you for the video and information's... In my mind I already accept that early manticore owner are field tester for Minelab.. Its obvious the D2 and equinox (lesser degree from D2 to my ears) perform much better in that conditions.. Minelab claim as the Manticore "Is the best coin and treasure detector on the market" and place the manticore as the Flagship of Minelab.. I am really hoping Minelab will give another software update/workaround and makes the Manticore the 'beast' in performance ... 

btw: it will be helpful if Manticore has mineralization meter feature too.. for the price of usd1500 it should have one.. 

[dsb]

Any way they could reduce the ID range with a upgrade?  Or would that be a down grade😊  I've been holding out to see how the new batch preforms, maybe next year🙄 now i feel like a cubs fan.

[phrunt]

Even better a Nox Mode where you can switch to the Nox number of ID's if you want to.  Can't be that hard in software to have a setting to select the number of ID's, they've already got a majority of the code.

Microsoft do stuff like that all the time in their software, people aren't happy with a change so you can go to "classic" or legacy mode 🙂